Why does Holy Ghost transform lives in many religions if "True Church" authority is required?

[pogi]

1 hour ago, Navidad said:

Thanks. I guess I have always read the words collectively and individually as adverbs modifying the word Church. I haven't found LDS concordances or commentaries that do verse by verse exposition of the Doctrine and Covenants. Maybe they exist and I just don't know that. It makes sense grammatically at least to see the two words as modifiers.  

I think you are right that they are adverbs modifying the word Church.  However, the verse says that he is speaking "unto the church collectively and not individually."  Note that church is singular.  Example: when the prophet speaks "unto the church collectively and not individually" during general conference, it simply means that he is speaking unto the members of the church as a whole.  The phrase, "the church" is often used to refer to the members which make up the church.

To be grammatically correct, your interpretation would have to use the plural "churches".  It would have to read "unto the churches collectively and not individually."  

Edited August 28, 2017 by pogi

[Navidad]

3 minutes ago, pogi said:

I think you are right that they are adverbs modifying the word Church.  However, the verse says that he is speaking "unto the church collectively and not individually."  Note that church is singular.  Example: when the prophet speaks unto the church collectively and not individually during general conference, it simply means that he is speaking unto the members of the church as a whole.  The same interpretation should be used if it is the prophet speaking unto the church collectively or if it is the Lord speaking unto the church (singular) collectively.  The phrase, "the church" is often used in reference to the members which make up the church.

To be grammatically correct, your interpretation would have to use the plural "churches".  It would have to read "unto the churches collectively and not individually."  

For the Mennonites, the "Church" is the great worldwide body of believers in Jesus Christ (the ekklesia -- the called out ones). It does not refer to a physical structure, a denomination, or a particular faith. It is always used as singular, and is used across Christian groups (LDS, Methodist, Mennonites, etc where adherents are Christians) so with that background that is how I read this verse. I understand and accept that how I read it doesn't make any difference in the grand scope of things. I agree with my LDS friends - there is only one Church in the world - the collected body of those who have recognized and accepted the gift of God that is eternal life through Jesus Christ his son. That is a singular collective! Thanks so much for interacting with me. That is how I learn. 

[pogi]

18 minutes ago, Navidad said:

For the Mennonites, the "Church" is the great worldwide body of believers in Jesus Christ (the ekklesia -- the called out ones). It does not refer to a physical structure, a denomination, or a particular faith. It is always used as singular, and is used across Christian groups (LDS, Methodist, Mennonites, etc where adherents are Christians) so with that background that is how I read this verse. I understand and accept that how I read it doesn't make any difference in the grand scope of things. I agree with my LDS friends - there is only one Church in the world - the collected body of those who have recognized and accepted the gift of God that is eternal life through Jesus Christ his son. That is a singular collective! Thanks so much for interacting with me. That is how I learn. 

That helps to understand why you interpret it that way, so thanks.  In LDS tongue, "the church" means - those who have been baptized by someone holding authority of the priesthood which was restored through Joseph Smith. 

Having said that, there is a passage in the BoM which states that there are save 2 churches, the Church of the Lamb of God, and the Church of the Devil.  There are different interpretations as to what constitutes the "Church of the Lamb of God", but many believe similar to Mennonites that it is in reference to all true followers of Jesus Christ (not in name necessarily, but in heart).  It goes even further in Mormonism to include non-Christians who are decent good hearted people who are following the inherent gift of the light of Christ to the best of their ability, but who have not yet had the chance to learn of Christ and accept baptism.

If this verse does indeed use that interpretation of "church" as a single body of believers/followers of Jesus Christ, it seems strange that it would speak of "individual" churches, as if there was more than one.

 

Edited August 28, 2017 by pogi