How to be a tolerant parent?

[mnn727]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

The blanket condemnation that the current generation is weak is adorable considering it usually comes from a generation born with a silver spoon in its mouth. A generation for whom jobs were plentiful and easy to acquire, steadily increasing wages were the norm, and where you could live off of just about any job. Then they pass judgement on kids who cannot find jobs that are not there, cannot live on wages too low to support them, and call them lazy when they frustrated at their lack of opportunities.

 

No jobs in your area, then move. I've moved halfway across the country twice and came out ahead both times. 

Rents too expensive? Thats what room mates are for!

Can't afford a new car? buy used and learn how to maintain it.

I'm sick of excuses!!!!

There was no silver spoon in my mouth, I was born to working class parents who didn't coddle me and who kicked my butt out when I refused to live by their rules in their house (they raised me right, I rebelled and yes there were all the things in the OP involved and more except for the tattoo) - kicking me out was the best thing they ever did for me and I will be eternally grateful for that GREAT learning experience.

Edited August 4, 2017 by mnn727

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, changed said:

I am a convert to the church, have kids of my own, and was a very rebellious child myself.  My rebellion started with over-controlling parents - they did everything they could to take away my free agency, and I did everything I could to fight against every controlling thing they did.  You have to remember that Satan's plan was to force everyone to be good - and I think there are many LDS and other religious parents out there who attempt to force their children to be good.  If you love someone, let them go would be my advice on that account.  

Something interesting I observed of the kids on a recent youth trip our stake was involved with.  Some of the kids had spiritual experiences etc. as the intention of the trip was supposed to be, while another chunk of the kids were there with sarcastic skeptical looks on their faces - cussing in various languages, singing inappropriate songs etc.  My daughter was one of the "good" kids on that trip - and sad to say it, but her goodness in this period of her life stems from me being a horrible parent.  We're struggling through some rather serious family issues that she has been in the center of, she has to play the role of the parent due to my work schedule (she is the one who cooks dinner and cleans the house etc.) in short - her imperfect parents have motivated her to turn to a higher power, she's trying to be a good example for us etc. 

My parents were not perfect either - but instead of admitting to me what the problems were and including me in their recoveries, they were dishonest with me - they tried to hide their problems (as most parents do), they were not honest with me and so I was not honest with them.  I think the best thing you can do for teenagers is to be honest with them about your own problems.  Repentance includes confession.  If you can confess your sins to your children, if you can stop hiding things from them and be honest with them - this is the best way to make them feel like they are an adult.  I currently ask my oldest daughter for help - the need is genuine, and she has risen to the occasion.  It has been humiliating as parents to admit our faults to her, and to have to ask her for help - but somehow our problems have become her strength.  

The advice I can give is to let go.  The prodigal child returns after they were allowed to walk out the door and leave.  Let them leave, let them walk out the door, stop trying to control ... stop pretending you are perfect and better than them ... AA works because the mentors in that program first admit their own sins, you have to admit your own sins before you can help another with theirs... would you take advice for how to cook from someone who has never cooked anything?  would you take advice on how to overcome from someone who has never overcome anything?  

go read "Bonds that Make you Free" by terry warner while you wait for them to come back.

Beautiful! 

[thesometimesaint]

I never kicked anyone out of my home. If they leave it is by their own choice.

[The Nehor]

11 minutes ago, mnn727 said:

No jobs in your area, then move. I've moved halfway across the country twice and came out ahead both times. 

Rents too expensive? Thats what room mates are for!

Can't afford a new car? buy used and learn how to maintain it.

I'm sick of excuses!!!!

There was no silver spoon in my mouth, I was born to working class parents who didn't coddle me and who kicked my butt out when I refused to live by their rules in their house (they raised me right, I rebelled and yes there were all the things in the OP involved and more except for the tattoo) - kicking me out was the best thing they ever did for me and I will be eternally grateful for that GREAT learning experience.

Like I said: I suspect those judging them really just want to pat themselves on the back.

[The Nehor]

3 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

I never kicked anyone out of my home. If they leave it is by their own choice.

I am currently engaged in a war that will end in genocide with creatures that live in my house.  No mercy! Death to the fire ants!!!!!!!!!

[Tacenda]

11 hours ago, bsjkki said:

So, are most of you saying because your daughter leaves the church and embraces a worldly lifestyle, you should cut them off financially, kick them out of the house and not pay for their college like you would your active kids? I have one who has strayed and she has lied to me. She doesn't tell us everything because she lives a different lifestyle that she knows I don't approve of. Her life has been very hard. She works hard and she saved all she could for school expenses and I still made up the rest so she could get her bachelor's degree. She graduated and is employed but her lifestyle keeps me awake at night so I try not to think about it and worry. I did not quit supporting her when she no longer believed. I am still her mom and as parents we still have responsibilities. She still calls me everyday and sends me money to pay back her last 3 months of college living expenses that I supplemented. She got a small tattoo last month. She drinks and bar hops and is sexually active. She knows I love her and we have a great relationship but I mentally disengaged her from being Mormon and treat her as I would anyone else who is not a member of our church. She is a functioning, self sustaining member of society but she would not have been if I had kicked her out at 18. There really are no easy answers. She may crash some day and I will be there to pick up the pieces. When her boyfriend broke it off--I was still there to console her even though I did not like him. I payed for therapy for awhile but she did not find it helpful and quit (I can't make her go)--she still has a lot to work through but I won't ever give up on her. I'm not sure our worst years are in the rear view mirror but it is easier now then when she was younger (her teen years were bad and it took years to understand why). My daughter was a rape victim, attempted suicide, is a type 1 diabetic and possibly bi-polar. But, she still graduated from college and is very good at her job. What an amazing accomplishment for her. Never give up hope on your kids and maintain a relationship through the tough times. Do not take her choices personally.

I would start by requiring her to have a job and then discuss how she plans to become an independent, successful member of society. If she is not in school, she should help with expenses or live independently (including financially independent). I always tell my kids, they don't get to live with me and then have more disposable income than I do because I pay all their expenses. Outside of the church, what are her hopes and dreams for the future? How do you end the fighting and find a productive path forward? 

The drinking and drugs are the real scare here--if she becomes an addict, the road looks bleak but you can't make her stop that either. This article has some good tips for parents and I think you can replace the addictions discussed with any dangerous behaviors. https://www.lds.org/topics/pornography/audiences/parents/creating-a-safe-place-to-talk-about-dangerous-things?lang=eng&old=true You are not alone in this struggle.

 

I love what you've said here. I too have children that are living outside of the LDS church's lifestyle that have tattoos, drink etc. or are disaffected LDS. If I had the mindset of 10 or so years ago, I think I'd be a basketcase. My faith crisis is a mixed blessing, possibly sent from God.

My daughter hated living under our roof, and our rules so much that she married right out of high school to an illegal immigrant. She use to cut and I had to call the cops one day when I found a knife in her room. I actually think that was so stupid to call cops to have a talk with her. I was that kind of person, I'm ashamed to say.

My daughter is still with her Mexican born husband and she is an amazing mother. I'm so glad I backed down in my holier than thou attitude. She and I are finally close. Like the below article mentions, we need to accept our children as they are, not how we want them to be. I know by saying this it will get some backlash, just like this woman did in the comment section of her article. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865685941/Teens-need-to-know-they-are-enough-just-the-way-they-are.html

Edited August 4, 2017 by Tacenda

[katherine the great]

5 hours ago, YJacket said:

Humans are inherently lazy, we want to do as little work as possible for as much payout.  

This part of your post I can agree with. I do hope for your sake that your daughters all grow up to be self sufficient and obedient by the time they are 18. I've raised boys and girls and my experience has been that boys are much easier.

[mnn727]

10 hours ago, bsjkki said:

So, are most of you saying because your daughter leaves the church and embraces a worldly lifestyle, you should cut them off financially, kick them out of the house and not pay for their college like you would your active kids?

 

No, I wouldn't do it for my active kids either.  If they are in college (paying their own way) they can live at home and eat what we are eating for free. If they are employed they scan still live at home paying rent (less than true market value) but they follow house rules( Which are really not that strict and don't even involve going to Church). If they want to lay around, have sex with their boy/girl friends, get tattoo's (drink, do drugs, etc) and not follow general house rules, they're on their own.

BTW, just to clarify there are less expensive ways to get a degree - 2 years community college while living at home, then transfer to a local public university and still live at home. Working on weekends and breaks, scholarships,  Not sure if serving int he armed forces still gets you some paid college benefits or not, but it used to. Student loans should be a final option, not a first option to 'get out of the house and not have to work'.

Also not everyone is cut out for college, Vo-Tech is still an option and there will always be jobs for plumbers, electricians, auto mechanics, etc.

 

[mnn727]

22 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Like I said: I suspect those judging them really just want to pat themselves on the back.

And some people just like to whine about how tough life is and never grow up.

[katherine the great]

11 hours ago, bsjkki said:

 My daughter was a rape victim, attempted suicide, is a type 1 diabetic and possibly bi-polar. But, she still graduated from college and is very good at her job. What an amazing accomplishment for her. Never give up hope on your kids and maintain a relationship through the tough times. Do not take her choices personally.

You just described my daughter to a T--except ours hasn't gone to college. We had to take her out of high school when we became aware of the types of activities she was involved in and it was clear she wasn't going to graduate anyway.  I think your strategy of disengaging from our LDS world view and treating her like any other non LDS person is key to sanity in these situations.  I have had to do the same thing. Its very difficult, but it causes unending pain if we continue to hold them to that standard. Also, no one who doesn't have a child with type 1 Diabetes can ever understand the extra worry. We have become heavily involved with JDRF to try to raise money for research and hopefully someday a cure. In the meantime, it keeps us connected to her in an additional way.

[thesometimesaint]

35 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I am currently engaged in a war that will end in genocide with creatures that live in my house.  No mercy! Death to the fire ants!!!!!!!!!

I've heard there are ways to make life in your home less attractive to fire ants. Don't know how effective they are however.

[bsjkki]

17 minutes ago, katherine the great said:

You just described my daughter to a T--except ours hasn't gone to college. We had to take her out of high school when we became aware of the types of activities she was involved in and it was clear she wasn't going to graduate anyway.  I think your strategy of disengaging from our LDS world view and treating her like any other non LDS person is key to sanity in these situations.  I have had to do the same thing. Its very difficult, but it causes unending pain if we continue to hold them to that standard. Also, no one who doesn't have a child with type 1 Diabetes can ever understand the extra worry. We have become heavily involved with JDRF to try to raise money for research and hopefully someday a cure. In the meantime, it keeps us connected to her in an additional way.

...mine was also a high school drop out. The extra worry never goes away but I manage it with faith. She is in Gods hands. 

[katherine the great]

1 minute ago, bsjkki said:

...mine was also a high school drop out. The extra worry never goes away but I manage it with faith. She is in Gods hands. 

You are more faithful than I am. Maybe because of my background in biology I am constantly worried about her health and I don't believe God would intervene for her anymore than the next diabetic kid who doesn't take care of themselves.   My husband deals with it much better than I do. Just out of curiosity, are you mom or dad?

[Maestrophil]

On 8/2/2017 at 0:27 PM, JAHS said:

The Bible says "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."  (Proverbs 22:6)

Notice it does not say when they are teenagers they will not depart from it. We had a daughter in a similar situation who kept a lot of wrong things she was doing secret from us and she ended up getting pregnant. It was shocking and upsetting to us also ,but we let her know we still loved her and she kept the baby and we helped raise her in our home.  After she started another relationship and got pregnant again she began to realize that what she was taught in the church were important principles that she wanted for her children, so they could grow up without as many problems as she had. She eventually married her boy friend who was also Mormon, but not active at the time she met him, and a year later they were  sealed in the temple with their children. 
I guess the point is that we should never give up on our children, even when they are adults; they might just decide on their own to make a turn for the better later in life. 

Thanks JAHS, I have been thinking a lot about that - loving the child and trusting that when the time is right, the Lord will provide the right lesson at the right time.