Give your pet the licking it deserves

[deli_llama]

Frozen baby carrots for teething puppies! Just make sure it is on their bed or a floor than can be swept. 

[hagoth7]

On 7/26/2017 at 10:53 AM, ksfisher said:

Dogs and cats don't sweat.

They do. Thru pads tongue, mostly, so I was told...

[hagoth7]

21 hours ago, Stargazer said:

 Or are you drinking milk and honey, literally?

Literally.

I occasionally drink other regular drinks, but milk and a dash of honey is the core.

Kewl experiment so far. Luvin' it on every level.

Edited July 28, 2017 by hagoth7

[hagoth7]

The odd side effect is that there appears to be a cameloid effect. Never hungry. Rarely need/want a shot of milk. Tons of energy.

 

Would be, for me, an ideal diet on the march, or in time of food shortage. 

Edited July 28, 2017 by hagoth7

[deli_llama]

I drink milk and honey everyday. I also eat my peanut butter and honey sandwiches everyday. My Honey, the wife not the food, complains that I could eat them for every meal and be happy. Probably could, but sometimes a peanut butter and dill pickle sandwich is required, so maybe not for every meal.

I also find that a day or so of milk and honey, or sometimes honey lassi, is good transition—from and to—solid foods during extended fasting. Who knows hagoth7, you might be on to something?

Honey is good medicine for the soul. 

Edited July 28, 2017 by deli_llama

[ksfisher]

2 hours ago, hagoth7 said:

They do. Thru pads tongue, mostly, so I was told...

You're correct as I learned from deli lama.  

[hagoth7]

2 hours ago, deli_llama said:

...Who knows hagoth7, you might be on to something...

I am grateful for the pastor-friend who suggested I try a liquid diet for a specific duration.

And for whoever commented in the forum earlier about WofW.

And for very clear suggestions throughout scripture.

May need some fine tuning...and adaptation to personal needs...but am very grateful for an enjoyable ride so far.

[hagoth7]

23 hours ago, Stargazer said:

When I was in the Army and stationed in Germany back in the early 80's, I occasionally visited a German Army communications station, and since I speak German we got along well.  It happened that they had a nice German shepherd dog on site, and on one visit I noticed that they were feeding the dog carrots!  I asked them if the dog liked eating carrots, and they said that no, he didn't really, but since all they fed him was vegetables, he really had no choice.  I don't know if they were stringing me along on the vegetarian diet or not, but the dog was definitely eating a carrot.

You seem to know something about this, so can you enlighten me on whether or not a dog can survive on a vegetarian diet?

Quinoa has all the amino acids the human body needs.

Would likely cover most if not all of a pooch's needs. Will ask my nutritionist friend next time I see her.

 

[hagoth7]

5 hours ago, Calm said:

Our dog loves carrots and apples...yogurt too (the plain, no sugar kind)

Carrots are actually recommended for dogs as healthy treats.

https://www.mnn.com/family/pets/stories/11-human-foods-dogs-can-eat-and-5-they-shouldnt

Apparently pork is bad for dogs, and should be added to the avoid list suggested.

Kosher/Muslim dogs? Oscar Meyer may have been on to something.

Edited July 28, 2017 by hagoth7

[deli_llama]

1 hour ago, hagoth7 said:

Apparently pork is bad for dogs, and should be added to the avoid list suggested.

Kosher/Muslim dogs? Oscar Meyer may have been on to something.

That don't feed list is incomplete, but not because pork isn't on it. Pork is a primary ingredient in a lot of dog food. Pork is safe for dogs under the same conditions it is safe for humans, safely handled and properly cooked, and for the same reasons. I wouldn't give a dog spiced or seasoned pork though. Onions and garlic, fairly typical in many pork dishes, are unsafe for dogs. Cured pork is also high in sodium and can be higher in fat than a dog needs. Perhaps that is what you meant?

Just curious, where are you getting some of your information, for example about pork and dogs, or salt and dogs? Some of it seems, um, incorrect or incomplete.

[hagoth7]

40 minutes ago, deli_llama said:

Pork is safe for dogs...

How safe is it for the pig? 🙁

[hagoth7]

42 minutes ago, deli_llama said:

Just curious, where are you getting some of your information...

Compassion, largely instilled by my mother and by the core message of the LDS faith..

And a raised eyebrow for the type who insist that treating the symptoms of any malady is somehow more important than  identifying and resolving *the root cause.*

A raised eyebrow because most who focus on the symptoms over the root cause are selling/mongering something (goods or services or reputation) that gets in the way of a longer-term solution to pain orr suffering..

Your concern is that what I have suggested...in an early draft is incomplete. And?

In almost everything I post in this forum, it is merely gentle demolition of errant paradigms and building blocks for something more beneficial..

Better question. Is it an improvement over millions of limping animals in pain...the animals we claim to love most?

Simple compassion-focused principles. Each of you can round out the various rough drafts in ways that best benefit your framework.

Fair 'nuf?

[Stargazer]

6 hours ago, hagoth7 said:

Literally.

I occasionally drink other regular drinks, but milk and a dash of honey is the core.

Kewl experiment so far. Luvin' it on every level.

I have GOT to try this.  Is there a time limit on this?  Like only for two weeks, or a month, or whatever?

My late wife liked to do a "lemon cleanse" from time to time -- meaning nothing but lemon (or lime) juice sweetened with pure maple syrup (and a dash of cayenne for heat) -- but it was recommended to not exceed 10 days.  She liked the results, felt better, lost some weight (though that wasn't her goal).  When I tried it, I found it monotonous and I couldn't comfortably stick to it for more than five or so days.

[hagoth7]

2 hours ago, Stargazer said:

  Is there a time limit on this?  Like only for two weeks, or a month, or whatever?

My late wife liked to do a "lemon cleanse" from time to time -- meaning nothing but lemon (or lime) juice sweetened with pure maple syrup (and a dash of cayenne for heat) -- but it was recommended to not exceed 10 days.  She liked the results, felt better, lost some weight (though that wasn't her goal).  When I tried it, I found it monotonous and I couldn't comfortably stick to it for more than five or so days.

As to time limit, i would not suggest trying something like this during winter...without at least me or some in solid health trying/testing it first then. I believe the wee-sample findings would be that the body would appreciate/respond to a different diet better during cold months. 

As to the other aspect of time, it was recommended months back by a pastor-friend that I consider doing a liquid diet  of 40 days, with doctor's oversight/counsel.  I don't have access to the latter, but have been blessed with good health, so opted to jump in awhile back. About halfway thru now, and so far, am a very happy/grateful camper. Have taken vitamins most days.

That was extended as specific counsel/advice to me, after I had already lost quite a bit of weight, and was in strong health.  (I added a wee bit of an LDS and OT riff on it.) 

I hope to report the outcome in another 20 days or so.

Have so far dropped about 10 more pounds during the first half of this test/trial...(it wasn't touted as a weight-loss solution.)

Edited July 28, 2017 by hagoth7

[deli_llama]

15 hours ago, hagoth7 said:

Your concern is that what I have suggested...in an early draft is incomplete. And?

Before you wrote that I wouldn't have said I had a concern, my only thought was to offer more, to complete or correct information posted concerning dogs. 

Now that you asked, yes.  If I had any concern with anything you have posted it would only be those things you have suggested that would be actually harmful, for example doggie salt licks. Is that an unfounded concern? It was something you tossed out there.

I am not sure, because you are hard to follow sometimes, but I am getting the idea that you would like to see dogs live vegetarian lifestyles (or other similar concepts–such as salt and dog salt licks–that you seem to be connecting from ideas in the scriptures) to save the suffering of other animals. That would also be a concern, if that is in fact what you are suggesting, despite how noble that idea might seem. Truthfully I can't be sure if that is what you are suggesting because you often wander like a rabbit's warren. 

All in all, not a concern about you, but definitely a concern for the animals these ideas might affect.  

I say incomplete because you haven't expressed that you understand a dog's physiology is not the same as a human's physiology, and that a dog's dietary and nutritional needs are not the same as a human's. 

So again, for clarity, the percieved concern isn't about you, it is for the dogs.  

16 hours ago, hagoth7 said:

How safe is it for the pig? 🙁

...and the pigs. 

[Calm]

 

On 2017-07-26 at 8:07 AM, hagoth7 said:

Why don't we have sodium/potassium licks for our cats/dogs?...

If you don't want them doing that please get your pet an appropriate salt lick.

I intend on unleashing a pet salt lick for the market soon. Please partner or compete with me....

Suggestions?

I really hope you don't start out any other of your marketing ideas in the same way.

Most investors worth anything will take time to research your idea.

When they discover that the reason we don't have licks for our dogs is because it might kill them, they will likely never consider you as an investment possibility in the future.

My suggestion:  You need to demonstrate you have at least invested time in your own idea before expecting others to invest money.

Edited July 29, 2017 by Calm

[hagoth7]

9 hours ago, Calm said:

I really hope you don't start out any other of your marketing ideas in the same way.

Most investors worth anything will take time to research your idea.

When they discover that the reason we don't have licks for our dogs is because it might kill them, they will likely never consider you as an investment possibility in the future.

My suggestion:  You need to demonstrate you have at least invested time in your own idea before expecting others to invest money.

This is called pre-alpha testing. Brainstorming.

If such a thing scares away *most* investors, super. 

If minesweeping a pain-resolving solution for potential flaws in a benign environment like this...before testing it on a living creature...seems imprudent, I have zero interest in doing business, with such people. Assuming I release a product to the market...which is unlikely. Selling things actually doesn't interest me. Resolving suffering does.

People once believed tomatoes were poison. Fear-based assertions that a simple mineral *might* harm an animal are noted, but shrugged off. What is *certain* is that millions of animals are in unnecessary pain. What then?

This thread, a thinktank, *is* ample evidence that time is being invested/leveraged/multiplied, in such a thing.

For those who can rarely speak for themselves.

Edited July 29, 2017 by hagoth7

[mfbukowski]

High blood pressure.

Good idea but ya gotta watch it.  Know your BP

I had a friend who had undiagnosed high BP and ate a lot of salty snacks and he went into heart AND kidney failure at age 35.

Just a caution- know your BP and deal with it.  You need salt to live but Gatorade has a lot of sugar as well.  No bueno as we say in LA.

Edited July 29, 2017 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

PLUS in the business world you have to have a tough skin and take your lumps and NEVER allow it to become personal, or be defensive.  Most warnings from potential investors are intended to be constructive.  And you have to listen to each person because each one is a potential investor- you never know who is listening especially on the internet.  The potential customer is always right, even if they are not

I love to watch Shark Tank and see how directly the investors tell someone exactly what is wrong with their idea, and in two minutes know if they are "in" or "out" and exactly why.   Often they are out simply because they know more about the business than the entrepreneur and can instantly spot the defects.   It is also instructive to see how the one pitching the idea acts, and how they take rejection.  They just roll with it and go on to other venues.

Edited July 29, 2017 by mfbukowski

[Calm]

"What is *certain* is that millions of animals are in unnecessary pain"

Not really

"This is called pre-alpha testing. Brainstorming."

You should be way past brainstorming before asking for investors.

My husband researches this stuff---who is successful and who is not--- for the last almost 40 years.  I have heard failures and successes from the mouths of millionaires as well as students who are given a buck to start a business and get a grade off of how much they can make in a semester.  Some have made thousands.

Edited July 29, 2017 by Calm

[deli_llama]

37 minutes ago, hagoth7 said:

People once believed tomatoes were poison. Fear-based assertions that a simple mineral *might* harm an animal are noted, but shrugged off. What is *certain* is that millions of animals are in unnecessary pain. What then?

It isn't a fear-based assertion. What you are suggesting, if implemented and actualized, would lead to unnecessary pain, suffering, and possibly the death, of additional animals. What then?

I don't just mean the salt licks. It would take a lot of skill and knowledge, not to mention time, to safely provide a dog a vegetarian diet. Not doing so properly would lead to health problems, suffering, and possible death. Look, honestly most humans don't actually provide a healthy diet for their dogs already. Obesity among dogs is a huge problem. You don't have to trust the vets or the research papers out there on the subject, just go hang out at a local off-leash park and observe. Around 30% obesity, with overweight rates ranging from 38%-45% in the US. That can remove years from a dog's life expectancy. And no, a vegetable only diet wouldn't fix it. They are overfed, and over treated, on dog foods that aren't necessarily formulated properly (not all dog food is created equally), and then not given the opportunities they need for work-play and exercise. Frankly, a majority of dog owners, despite their love/attachment for/to the dog, aren't all that responsible, with only a shallow understanding of what is needed for their canine friends' overall health, and those are the "better" caretakers. 

Plus, what everyone else has said, they are offering you good advice. mfbukowski's latest post here is worth a couple of reads. 

[hagoth7]

17 minutes ago, Calm said:

"What is *certain* is that millions of animals are in unnecessary pain"

Not really

? Two of the three i noticed were hobbling. Both owners mentioned the chronic pain their pets were having.

"This is called pre-alpha testing. Brainstorming."

You should be way past brainstorming before asking for investors.

? Wasn't asking for investors.

 

[Calm]

"? Two of the three i noticed were hobbling. Both owners mentioned the chronic pain their pets were having."

You have seen three animals and make assumptions about millions.

Now that does sound like a fear based assertion.

And given your solution will only add to that pain based on actual experience with dogs, why would you think anyone would entrust you with finding a solution if this is how you usually work.

Businesses often never get off the ground when the entrepreneur drives it solely by passion.

"? Wasn't asking for investors."

Partners are investors of time and effort and often money.

Unless you start a company with someone based on working with them and not an idea, inviting someone who knows little of you save for how you present ideas....well, you need to present decent ideas, not ones that will kill off the market.

Edited July 29, 2017 by Calm

[Calm]

Do you really think this below with all its detail is based on imagination and not experience?

https://www.vetary.com/dog/condition/salt-poisoning

"What is Salt Poisoning? Although salt (sodium) is a natural substance that your dog’s body needs, too much can cause serious illness or even be fatal. Sodium toxicity is caused by sodium chloride, which is used to maintain the levels of water in the body; an essential part of your dog’s metabolic system. In most cases, if your dog consumes too much salt, he will drink water to combat the effects and no damage will be done. However, if there is no water available to your dog, or if your dog ingested an extreme amount of salt in a short time, the cells in the body will start to release water to even out the levels of salt in the blood. This causes the destruction of brain cells due to the lack of water, creating neurological symptoms like dizziness, headache, and seizures. The most often reported reasons for salt poisoning in dogs is ingestion of homemade play dough, ornaments, rock salt, or table salt. It can also be caused by a lack of fresh water, frozen water sources, or a malfunctioning automatic waterer. Too much salt in the blood (hyponatremia) can cause the muscles to lose moisture, shrivel, and become stiff, which will create shaking and jerking. The most serious symptoms of salt poisoning are neurological. Some of those symptoms are convulsions, coma, and death. Sodium chloride causes the brain cells to dry out due to the release of water from the cells used to dilute the salt in the bloodstream. Dehydration is imminent without the opportunity to drink enough fresh water, which brings more serious effects: fast heartbeat, fainting, confusion, and difficulty breathing. If you think your dog has ingested a large amount of salt, call your veterinarian whether your dog shows any symptoms or not.

Symptoms of Salt Poisoning in Dogs

There are many signs of salt poisoning in dogs, which may be neurological, gastrointestinal, or even cardiovascular. The most common signs are extreme thirst and urination, which are what usually saves your dog’s life if there is plenty of fresh water to drink. This is because the water dilutes the salt in the blood, and it is cleansed from the body in the urine. The symptoms of salt poisoning most often reported are: Coma Confusion Convulsions Death Extreme thirst and urination Fluid buildup Headache High fever Increased heart rate (tachycardia) Lack of energy Loss of appetite Muscle spasms Nausea Respiratory distress Seizures Stomach pains Tongue swelling Vomiting Walking like intoxicated Watery diarrhea Weakness

Causes of Salt Poisoning in Dogs A large amount of salt in your dog’s blood can cause sodium poisoning if your dog eats enough of it and has no fresh water to drink. These are some of the ways your dog can get sodium poisoning:

Frozen water source

Broken automatic waterer

Also the consumption of many items that may be found around the home can cause salt poisoning.

Homemade play dough or ornaments

Ocean water

Paintballs

Rock salt

Soy sauce

Table salt

Diagnosis of Salt Poisoning in Dogs

A thorough physical examination will be done, which will include checking your dog’s reflexes, temperature, pulse rate, weight, height, reflexes, blood pressure, respirations, and a quick vision and hearing test. Bring any medical records you have, including your dog’s vaccination records, illness and injury information, and describe any abnormal behavior or appetite. Explain to your veterinarian what you believe your dog consumed, how much, and how long it has been since consumption. List the symptoms you have seen that brought you to the veterinarian in the first place and when they started. The tests your veterinarian will need to perform are complete blood count, blood gases, and blood chemistry, and a urinalysis to check your dog’s sodium level. A complete cardiac diagnostic will be done as well. This will include an electrocardiogram (EKG) to measure the electrical impulses in your dog’s heart, radiographs (x-rays), MRI, CT scan, and ultrasound to determine the extent of the damage to your dog’s brain, heart, and lungs. Treatment of Salt Poisoning in Dogs Your dog will be admitted to the hospital for oxygen, IV fluid therapy, and electrolytes to manage dehydration. The salt level will have to be brought down gradually because a sudden change in sodium levels can cause a heart attack or cerebral edema (brain swelling). It can take up to three days to bring the levels down to an acceptable range depending on how high your dog’s sodium levels are. This is usually done with warm water enemas every few hours. If cerebral edema is already present, your dog will be given a corticosteroid, such as dexamethasone or mannitol to reduce the inflammation. The veterinarian will most likely keep your dog in the hospital for about 24 hours for observation.

Recovery of Salt Poisoning in Dogs

Your veterinarian will probably suggest a diet low in sodium, and this is important to keep the level of sodium in your dog’s blood under control. You will have to return in 30 days for a follow-up blood test to determine sodium level. If there is no sign of hypernatremia, your dog’s prognosis is good as long as there is no damage to the brain, heart, or liver.  Be sure to follow your veterinarian’s instructions and continue to take your dog for annual check-ups.

Cost of Salt Poisoning in Dogs

Salt Poisoning can be an expensive treatment in dogs and can range from $3000.00 to $12000.00 depending on the cost of living and severity of your Dog's salt poisoning. On average, the national cost of treating salt poisoning in dogs is $5000.00."[\b]

[hagoth7]

10 minutes ago, Calm said:

"? Two of the three i noticed were hobbling. Both owners mentioned the chronic pain their pets were having."

You have seen three animals and make assumptions about millions.

Now that does sound like a fear based assertion.

And given your solution will only add to that pain based on actual experience with dogs, why would you think anyone would entrust you with finding a solution if this is how you usually work.

I frankly have no more time for this in this forum

If people simply want to be naysayers, rather than offer concrete suggestions to relieve the root cause of their pain...dunno what to say.

Less interested in being right. More interested in finding what's right on this. None appear interested in the latter.

<------exiting thread.

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

I love to watch Shark Tank and see how directly the investors tell someone exactly what is wrong with their idea, and in two minutes know if they are "in" or "out" and exactly why.   Often they are out simply because they know more about the business than the entrepreneur and can instantly spot the defects.   It is also instructive to see how the one pitching the idea acts, and how they take rejection.

Agreed.

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=https://www.forbes.com/sites/trangho/2016/07/02/16-promising-entrepreneurs-rejected-by-shark-tank/&refURL=https://www.google.com/&referrer=https://www.google.com/

For the critters, someone(s) please pick this up and hone a workable solution to ease their pain.