Acts Of Chivalry Now Viewed With Suspicion

[BCSpace]

A survey claims most women are striving for independence do not expect token acts of kindness like giving up a seat on a packed bus or carrying shopping bags.The figures collated suggest that a breakthrough in equality but are disappointing for many bemoaning the lack of good manners regardless of gender.

Mark Hall, Gentleman Creation Officer for Socked.co.uk, said: "Men's standards have slipped so far over recent years that any offer of chivalry from a gentleman knocks a woman off their guard and is viewed with outright suspicion.

"Does an offer of goodwill have to be taken the wrong way?

"If men upped their game across the board good manners would be back on the agenda once again.

"We've forgotten about good behaviour and it's high time gentlemen stood up to be counted – especially on a crowded bus."

The survey carried out by the online service, which helps men to dress well and offers free tips on etiquette, revealed just how much women rejected chivalrous behaviour.

The results said a huge 82 per cent of women preferred to pay for their dinner on a first date and 52 per cent claimed they would happily pay for entire bill.

Men who think women are lumbering heavy shopping bags around should think twice because 89 per cent would not accept an offer to help.

Socked.co.uk, which helps gentlemen dress well and offers free tips in etiquette, believe that good manners cost nothing, and it is up to the gentleman to prove that courtesy is not dead in this second decade of the twenty-first century.

"The figures show a drift away from what is viewed as acceptable behaviour," Hall said, "But why are we letting this happen? Your offer of an open door might be rejected, but so could the chance of friendship, respect, or a second date."

The figures show further strides in equality and independence, but are a disappointment for those to whom traditional displays of good manners are important, whatever the gender.

The survey results said:

82% of women said they would prefer to pay for their dinner on a first date

52% said they would happily pay for the entire bill on a first date

89% of women said they would not take up the offer from a man to carrying their bag

78% would not accept a coat from a man on a cold day

Only 34% of women said they expect men to open doors for them

8% said they would take up the offer of a seat if a man offered. In London, this figure was only 2 per cent.

The survey also came up with some surprising answers:

41% of women agreed men should be able to wear dresses

98% said they would like to be bought flowers, but only 32% had actually received flowers in the past twelve months

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/9800488/Traditional-acts-of-chivalry-frowned-upon-as-suspicious.html

[EllenMaksoud]

Well, isn't this a UK survey?

I am American and raised in the 50's. As far as I am concerned a man may be as helpful as they like. I do agree that many men think that a woman should expect to "put out" after the first date. At nearly 66, I will never have the problem, nor will a man seek me out to wife. I do however have great sympathy for young women, and perhaps that is why the tendency is for dates to be dutch. It is an awful commentary on our culture.

[blackstrap]

I think the suspicion is linked to fear of attack. Women are hypersensitized to strange men offering help. Too many news stories showing nasty outcomes.

[Garden Girl]

Well, isn't this a UK survey?

I am American and raised in the 50's. As far as I am concerned a man may be as helpful as they like. I do agree that many men think that a woman should expect to "put out" after the first date. At nearly 66, I will never have the problem, nor will a man seek me out to wife. I do however have great sympathy for young women, and perhaps that is why the tendency is for dates to be dutch. It is an awful commentary on our culture.

Now Ellen... you never know... when I was 59 I had met a wonderful gentleman, tall... handsome... fun to be with... we might have married (almost did), but even though that didn't happen it opened me to the possibility. However, I'm now 72 and the longer I'm alone, the more I choose to remain alone. It would take someone really special, but if that someone came into my life, it would give me pause...

GG

Edited January 26, 2013 by Garden Girl

[EllenMaksoud]

Now Ellen... you never know... when I was 66 I had met a wonderful gentleman, tall... handsome... fun to be with... we might have married (almost did), but even though that didn't happen it opened me to the possibility. However, I'm now 72 and the longer I'm alone, the more I choose to remain alone. It would take someone really special, but if that someone came into my life, it would give me pause...

GG

After my divorce, a couple years, I met a man. He was gentle and caring, and was my intellectual superior. We talked about the Bible hour after hour. I had just become Muslim, and while I now wonder what I was thinking then, he never upbraided me about the issue. He had been studying to be a Catholic Priest and decided it was not for him. I loved him greatly and we would have married. One morning I called him and he had died of a stroke. There was never anyone after that ...

[Calm]

I think the suspicion is linked to fear of attack. Women are hypersensitized to strange men offering help. Too many news stories showing nasty outcomes.

Bingo. Also men expecting something for money spent on a date.

[rpn]

Just because a certain woman turns down an offer of chivalry doesn't mean chivalry is wrong. For instance, I would pay my own way on dates (and expect to pay the whole tab if I invited), just because dating should not depend on a man's income alone, and too many men tend to think of the money they spend on dates as entitling them to something. I routinely do not allow my fellow men co-workers to open doors, or give up seats, or all the other stuff, because accepting tends to reinforce stereotypes of women been unequal in the work force. But I absolutely expect all of that in social settings (and do the same for those older than I or infirm or heavy laden).

Chivalry isn't dead, it's just a whole lot more nuanced. Men should not assume that because one offer is turned down that (a) women don't appreciate the offer; or (b) that they should quit offering in other circumstances or to other women.

[DH]

I like to do small acts of courtesy for people regardless of gender. If a man is carrying a lot of packages, I'll hold a door open for him as readily as for a woman.

[Saints Alive]

Bingo. Also men expecting something for money spent on a date.

the sword cuts both ways on that one, back in my dating days I knew several women who were notorious for taking advantage of a "free dinner" with no interest in the poor sap they were taking advantage of.

Also, since more women work these days it does seem reasonable for them to pay more than in the past.

[BCSpace]

Just because a certain woman turns down an offer of chivalry doesn't mean chivalry is wrong

Indeed. No chivalry at all just about guarantees failure. Chivalry gives a greater chance of success plus it's polite society. And someone is always watching and may appreciate it unbeknownst to you.

[Calm]

the sword cuts both ways on that one, back in my dating days I knew several women who were notorious for taking advantage of a "free dinner" with no interest in the poor sap they were taking advantage of.

Also, since more women work these days it does seem reasonable for them to pay more than in the past.

Agreed.

[Garden Girl]

After my divorce, a couple years, I met a man. He was gentle and caring, and was my intellectual superior. We talked about the Bible hour after hour. I had just become Muslim, and while I now wonder what I was thinking then, he never upbraided me about the issue. He had been studying to be a Catholic Priest and decided it was not for him. I loved him greatly and we would have married. One morning I called him and he had died of a stroke. There was never anyone after that ...

Oh, that's sad... I'm sorry...

Let me tell you about the day I met "Robert." I had been widowed for about a year when this couple from church asked me if I would mind meeting with a friend of theirs who had just lost someone to cancer, a woman he had been with for about three years and he was grieving deeply, and they thought I might be able to help him since I had just come through my own grief.

I reluctantly agreed because I didn't know what to expect... I imagined some emotional little old man (he was three years older than me). But I agreed and they arranged that we would all have lunch at the local buffet... I made them promise not to leave me alone with him. I arrived and my friends and another couple were already seated. I sat down across from the empty seat where this man would sit... as we waited I chatted with my friend who was sitting next to me. I became aware of the chair being pulled out across from me, and I turned and looked up at this tall, handsome, silver wavy-haired man sitting down across from me... I was so proud of myself because I did not let my mouth fall open, nor did I gulp, but quickly pulled myself together and managed a greeting.

From the beginning there was an easiness between us... we began talking, and we talked and we talked, about all manner of topics with death, grief, faith, woven in and out of our conversation. Finally, my friends said they had to be going and I said... Okay, see you later... and they left. We continued talking for another half hour or so, and then he walked me to my van. A few days later I got a call from him and we began our friendship. I was disappointed because he was a confirmed bachelor... as well as non-LDS, but was a deep, spiritual person. I cared very much for him... but I had spent the last three years with my husband who chose not to share my faith at all, so I sat alone in church... alone in the temple... alone in my prayers... so I had to walk away as I just didn't want that type of hurt again.

I should mention that he was such a gentleman... chivalry was just a part of him. He finally moved but we still stay in touch two or three times a month though he is far away. I haven't seen him in 9 years but that bond that we felt is still there... and there's been no one else since him... and he is still a bachelor... sigh...

GG

Edited January 26, 2013 by Garden Girl

[EllenMaksoud]

Garden Girl:

So, you and many others know the sorrow too. This is not a surprise. Many of us have burdens that we must learn to bear with grace because of Heavenly Father. I am not alwasy that gracious, but we all try do we not. I sometimes wish that Mormons had Nuns because if they did I would be one.

I've been accused of being soft on plural marriage because of the lonliness. It would be nice living with others and caring for children. Perhaps I will take a job as a nanny?

[DavidB]

The Gospel teaches to help those in need, chivalry mandates that male must help a woman at all costs even when she does not need help. While "chivalry" makes for profit in movies, what purpose can chivalry serve, but to perpetuate the myth of females needing manly protection 24x7?

Wouldn't "polite" society offer to help anyone in need without regard to gender? Who needs a man-made concept of chivarly when the Gospel teaches "love thy neighbor as thyself".

How much better would the world be living the Gospel of Christ than by trying to adhere to a dogmatic creation of man conceived by the myth that females are the weaker gender?

Edited January 26, 2013 by DavidB

[blackstrap]

Perhaps when the world runs out of oil,the horse will again become dominant and "chivalry" will rear its head.