missionary discussions

[poptart]

I have questions about the missionary discussions, are they anything more than a series of lessons? 

[Judd]

I'm not certain what you mean by anything more, but, correct, they'd be a series of lessons that they would teach about some basic gospel principles and the message of the restoration that is often personalized and allows for questions and interaction.

[poptart]

16 minutes ago, Judd said:

I'm not certain what you mean by anything more, but, correct, they'd be a series of lessons that they would teach about some basic gospel principles and the message of the restoration that is often personalized and allows for questions and interaction.

So far all I ever bothered with as far as christianity is the historical aspect, the emotional/spiritual aspect never appealed to me.  At my core my beliefs were always, well heathen.  How would you personalize the whole concept of Jesus?  Honestly I always found the concept strange.  Don't get me wrong, Jesus is a pretty awesome guy, for someone who gets sold out by his own race of people to forgive them on the spot is pretty amazing. 

[Calm]

https://www.lds.org/manual/preach-my-gospel-a-guide-to-missionary-service?lang=eng

You can chat with missionaries online if you are interested, a little FYI on the page as well.

https://www.mormon.org/chat

[Calm]

You might be interested in this series, a kind of reality show of missionaries (haven't seen it myself, but heard about it).

Their YouTube channel, apparently they did it for two years:

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC0b-1cRfQqua0s_BJV8QzcA

Edited July 1, 2017 by Calm

[Jane_Doe]

I'm also not sure of your question here @poptart.  Missionary discussions exist to share the basic of the Gospel with people.  If you're totally uninterested in spirituality (either for yourself or understanding how other people view it), then that and LDS church isn't really going to interest you (cause the entire purpose is to foster spirituality and a bond with Christ).

If you're wanting simply to know history, then the recommended resource would be history book.

[poptart]

5 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

I'm also not sure of your question here @poptart.  Missionary discussions exist to share the basic of the Gospel with people.  If you're totally uninterested in spirituality (either for yourself or understanding how other people view it), then that and LDS church isn't really going to interest you (cause the entire purpose is to foster spirituality and a bond with Christ).

If you're wanting simply to know history, then the recommended resource would be history book.

Here's the thing, I didn't grow up religious and had nothing but one bad experience after another.  Truth be told, Mormons really were the first people to care.  I had an LDS friend literally talk me out of blowing my brains out. 

For me, unless something produces something worthwhile it's useless.  Christianity in the states is a bit of a joke anymore, I've known plenty of people who loooove Jesus but think nothing of stepping on anyone in their way.  My mom who went to BYUH was treated awfully by a lot of christians here in the mainland.  Funny, a few of em were having affairs on their husbands, their kids let me in on it.  (The things you see as a kid...)

I think part of it is I am not used to being treated like I matter, its new.  Also, my ideas of diety are well, not christian at all. 

[Jane_Doe]

8 minutes ago, poptart said:

Here's the thing, I didn't grow up religious and had nothing but one bad experience after another.  Truth be told, Mormons really were the first people to care.  I had an LDS friend literally talk me out of blowing my brains out. 

For me, unless something produces something worthwhile it's useless.  Christianity in the states is a bit of a joke anymore, I've known plenty of people who loooove Jesus but think nothing of stepping on anyone in their way.  My mom who went to BYUH was treated awfully by a lot of christians here in the mainland.  Funny, a few of em were having affairs on their husbands, their kids let me in on it.  (The things you see as a kid...)

I think part of it is I am not used to being treated like I matter, its new.  Also, my ideas of diety are well, not christian at all. 

You said "For me, unless something produces something worthwhile it's useless"   Did the LDS faith help make your friend who he is?

 For the record: Christian theology (LDS and otherwise) totally agrees with you that faith without works is dead and profits no one.  The Book of James speaks very bluntly about this.  It doesn't keep some people from doing it, but doing such is very much against the Bible.

[poptart]

3 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

You said "For me, unless something produces something worthwhile it's useless"   Did the LDS faith help make your friend who he is?

 For the record: Christian theology (LDS and otherwise) totally agrees with you that faith without works is dead and profits no one.  The Book of James speaks very bluntly about this.  It doesn't keep some people from doing it, but doing such is very much against the Bible.

Absolutely, he was born into the church, rebelled, and after repenting was welcomed back.  His son just graduated law school, married another lawyer and the church provided the wedding free.  Also they did help him with work and just stabalizing himself as well as emotional support. 

Heh, think Martin Luther and a whole bunch of protestants and feel good evangelicals would disagree.  Think it was the Gospel of St, James Luther hated the most, could be wrong. 

 

[Jane_Doe]

7 minutes ago, poptart said:

Absolutely, he was born into the church, rebelled, and after repenting was welcomed back.  His son just graduated law school, married another lawyer and the church provided the wedding free.  Also they did help him with work and just stabalizing himself as well as emotional support. 

That's awesome.

 

[poptart]

2 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

That's awesome.

 

I've only ever seen that with mormons.  Maybe it's just my bad luck but most of the christians i've met in the states were rather rotten.

[Jane_Doe]

8 minutes ago, poptart said:

I've only ever seen that with mormons.  Maybe it's just my bad luck but most of the christians i've met in the states were rather rotten.

As much as I would like to say "it's a Mormon only thing", there are good Christians of other denominations too.  I'm sorry you've had such rotten luck with them.

[poptart]

18 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

As much as I would like to say "it's a Mormon only thing", there are good Christians of other denominations too.  I'm sorry you've had such rotten luck with them.

Life's unfair.

[Gillebre]

As a returned missionary myself I want to say that while the lessons do follow a general format and flow they are intended to be very personalized to the needs of whoever the missionaries are working with. That's the ideal. It's not about rote presentation of truths that the Church teaches, but how those truths are meant to interact and bless the daily life of the person learning them. Lesson one is not about how God is our Heavenly Father, but how He is your Heavenly Father, and what that means to you and how you can come to internalize what that is in your life. That's just a basic example from the first lesson. If you do have any additional questions or would like someone who can provide a little extra context, feel free to message me. The missionaries are great, and it's their job to act as teachers and guides to those learning about the Church, but it's also important to have members who can support you. I'm sure any of us here would be happy to, myself especially, so don't hesitate to reach out my friend. Make sure to ask honest questions and talk openly about how you're thinking about these things. I think that will help you sort through it well.

[poptart]

17 minutes ago, Gillebre said:

As a returned missionary myself I want to say that while the lessons do follow a general format and flow they are intended to be very personalized to the needs of whoever the missionaries are working with. That's the ideal. It's not about rote presentation of truths that the Church teaches, but how those truths are meant to interact and bless the daily life of the person learning them. Lesson one is not about how God is our Heavenly Father, but how He is your Heavenly Father, and what that means to you and how you can come to internalize what that is in your life. That's just a basic example from the first lesson. If you do have any additional questions or would like someone who can provide a little extra context, feel free to message me. The missionaries are great, and it's their job to act as teachers and guides to those learning about the Church, but it's also important to have members who can support you. I'm sure any of us here would be happy to, myself especially, so don't hesitate to reach out my friend. Make sure to ask honest questions and talk openly about how you're thinking about these things. I think that will help you sort through it well.

The idea of a benevolent diety is something new, my idea of  God was someone who did his thing then said screw it, did my part you're on your own.  If I do see Jesus when I'm dead I'm going to scream at him for all the horrible things his folowers did to my mom and myself, the racism, biggotry and out right two faced backstabbing. 

 

[Tacenda]

54 minutes ago, poptart said:

I've only ever seen that with mormons.  Maybe it's just my bad luck but most of the christians i've met in the states were rather rotten.

I'm in Dallas, Texas and so far I'm pretty impressed by the non LDS Christians here. My husband and I drove to the Dallas temple today and surrounding it are these huge buildings mostly bigger than the temple, of various churches. 

When you grow up in Utah and all you know are LDS people with a church in every neighborhood it's an eye opener to meet the non LDS Christians and think some are even nicer than LDS. Where before in naivety one might think they don't have the countenance or something, oh how lame that is, I may have wondered that, I'm embarrassed to say.

But I'm glad you were treated well poptart!

[Jane_Doe]

16 minutes ago, poptart said:

The idea of a benevolent diety is something new, my idea of  God was someone who did his thing then said screw it, did my part you're on your own.  If I do see Jesus when I'm dead I'm going to scream at him for all the horrible things his folowers did to my mom and myself, the racism, biggotry and out right two faced backstabbing. 

 

Speaking from the LDS POV--

You are a son of God.  Your mom is his daughter.  Any person who sinned and harmed either of you will suffer His almighty divine wrath for those crimes (assuming their lack of honest and true repentance).  

God loves you.  He's not going to abandon His son and just say "pop tart you're on your own!".  Rather, He always walks step by step with you, strengthening you, and wiping your tears when wounds happen (either because of your actions or another person's).  He knows you perfectly and loves you perfectly.  

[Traela]

2 hours ago, poptart said:

The idea of a benevolent diety is something new, my idea of  God was someone who did his thing then said screw it, did my part you're on your own.  If I do see Jesus when I'm dead I'm going to scream at him for all the horrible things his folowers did to my mom and myself, the racism, biggotry and out right two faced backstabbing. 

 

Have you ever read the parable of the sheep and the goats?  In one part, some of the bad people talk about all the things they supposedly did in Jesus' name.  He replies, "I never knew you."  Or in the Joseph Smith Translation, "You never knew me."

[Gillebre]

Traela that's such an incredible distinction that I didn't realize. He always knows us, but we don't always know Him...

[rpn]

15 hours ago, poptart said:

The idea of a benevolent diety is something new, my idea of  God was someone who did his thing then said screw it, did my part you're on your own.  If I do see Jesus when I'm dead I'm going to scream at him for all the horrible things his folowers did to my mom and myself, the racism, biggotry and out right two faced backstabbing. 

 

By the time you meet Him and your Savior, you may know how very much They've tried to teach, persuade, help, inspire His children to do something other than what you describe, and mourn mortal lapses, and comfort those who experience those lapses as you have.  

And you will likely know a lot more about the limitations of His ability/willingness to undermine agency which is the only way His children can progress and become what they wanted to become when they lived with Heavenly Parents in the pre-existence and knew Them in ways that the veil they received at birth doesn't permit (and what They want Their children to become).

The lessons are to teach you fundamental gospel principals.  If you want to know history, I'd suggest you use the Encyclopedia of Mormonism which describes both events, and basic gospel principles (was published by the University of Chicago but the church did lend the time and effort of various scholars to its effort, and now publishes it online at http://eom.byu.edu/;   Revelations in Context at https://history.lds.org/section/revelations  for background on the revelations of Joseph Smith and the Doctrine and Covenants; and  josephsmithpapers.org for lots of other history.  There are some good non-official history material around too.

[poptart]

7 hours ago, rpn said:

By the time you meet Him and your Savior, you may know how very much They've tried to teach, persuade, help, inspire His children to do something other than what you describe, and mourn mortal lapses, and comfort those who experience those lapses as you have.  

And you will likely know a lot more about the limitations of His ability/willingness to undermine agency which is the only way His children can progress and become what they wanted to become when they lived with Heavenly Parents in the pre-existence and knew Them in ways that the veil they received at birth doesn't permit (and what They want Their children to become).

The lessons are to teach you fundamental gospel principals.  If you want to know history, I'd suggest you use the Encyclopedia of Mormonism which describes both events, and basic gospel principles (was published by the University of Chicago but the church did lend the time and effort of various scholars to its effort, and now publishes it online at http://eom.byu.edu/;   Revelations in Context at https://history.lds.org/section/revelations  for background on the revelations of Joseph Smith and the Doctrine and Covenants; and  josephsmithpapers.org for lots of other history.  There are some good non-official history material around too.

Meanwhile I still have the mental bagage, resentment, self loathing and enjoyment I get when his messed up children destroy eachother.  If I do meet the allmighty and he does offer to make it up to me having the option to crank up the flames in the oven he calls hell would be nice.  I'd set it to the highest setting possible and roast marshmellows while I listen to the damned shriek in agony.

[Gillebre]

I can't imagine what thoughts and feelings you have as a result of what others have done which has wronged you and those you care about, but bitterness will only continue to poison your spirit as long as it remains in your system. No one can tell you how to feel about your experiences, but I can only say that the pain isn't worth keeping inside. Whatever judgment we use on other people affects how we are judged, like karma. No one but Christ is completely innocent of sin, of causing pain and turmoil in the lives of other people.

A thought I'd like to highlight that came to me recently is this: turning up the flames on someone else only turns them back upon yourself. The only power any of us really have is over ourselves..what we think, feel, and do because of our experiences. It seems like you've faced a terrible amount of grief, and for that I can only offer empathy, and hope that as you learn more about the Lord's teachings, His life, and His heart, that you can let Him take that pain away and be free of it. I can personally say with complete conviction that God can gradually change us in ways that allow us to face what life has unfairly given us. Sometimes it takes more time than we like, but it can happen for us.

[strappinglad]

1 hour ago, poptart said:

Meanwhile I still have the mental bagage, resentment, self loathing and enjoyment I get when his messed up children destroy eachother.  If I do meet the allmighty and he does offer to make it up to me having the option to crank up the flames in the oven he calls hell would be nice.  I'd set it to the highest setting possible and roast marshmellows while I listen to the damned shriek in agony.

I must admit that on rare occasions, I have felt the same way. I have to remind myself that there likely are other people who want ME on the spit. Judge not, that ye be not judged, or better put by Joseph's translation, judge righteously that ye be not judged, for with the same level of judgment you judge , you shall be judged( paraphrasing ) . Then there is that old beam and mote in the eye stuff. Don't let me start on the crazy habits of driver's... so hard to be even the least bit non judgmental.

[Meerkat]

On 7/1/2017 at 3:50 PM, poptart said:

 How would you personalize the whole concept of Jesus?  Honestly I always found the concept strange.  Don't get me wrong, Jesus is a pretty awesome guy, for someone who gets sold out by his own race of people to forgive them on the spot is pretty amazing. 

As one who has been where you are, you are asking the perfect question.  I don't believe you can sincerely ask that question and not have Him find you.  

You said life isn't fair.  I agree.  A loving Heavenly Father gave us the freedom to choose how we will treat each other.  It isn't God who makes it unfair.  It is us, due to the choices we make.

Have you ever said or done anything that you regret that hurt someone else?  Expand that to the conflicts between nations.  The ones who hurt others with no remorse, will surely pay a terrible price one day.

Those of us who do feel remorse and turn to Christ for forgiveness are actually able to have Christ take the punishment for our bad actions. He, our Creator, didn't have to take all that He did.  He did it out of love for you and me because we didnt have the power to pay justice ourselves.  The price was too high.  He paid an infinite price.

Those angry feelings you have about people who have harmed you and whole segments of society?  That is Justice expecting retribution.  God knew this would happen.  That's why He sent Jesus Christ, to pay that price to Justice for those of us who realize our error and repent.

In the end, those who live where God dwells will be there because they have chosen to leave their evil thoughts and acts behind.  They will have chosen to repent, turn from evil in favor of all that is virtuous, lovely, of good report or praiseworthy.  That is the world as we would like it to be. And that is the world we will have through Christ.

Edited July 3, 2017 by Meerkat

[Avatar4321]

I'm not sure I can answer the question. Perhaps you should talk with the missionaries. After all they would be the ones responsible for teaching you and thus entitled to the Spirit to help personalize the message.