O, Give Me Back My Prophet Dear

[USU78]

Are Mormons entitled to weep for the lost, especially on this sad anniversary?

[mnn727]

I hate to have to ask, but what sad anniversary?

[CV75]

24 minutes ago, USU78 said:

Are Mormons entitled to weep for the lost, especially on this sad anniversary?

Absolutely. Our choir sung the following Sunday, which is extremely poignant" "The Unknown Grave" by David Hyrum Smith

According to the background explanation on a music sales website: "David Hyrum Smith, the youngest child of the prophet Joseph Smith, was yet unborn at the the time of the martyrdom. The prophet’s enemies were anxious to steal his body, so the sad burial was conducted in secret by a few of Joseph’s friends. Eighteen years later, in 1867, David composed the words and melody of this song reflecting upon his father’s “unknown grave.” Several versions of the text exist with various publication dates. These words have been chosen as the most representative..."

Here are the lyrics:

There's an unknown grave in a lonely spot,
But the form that it covers, will ne'er be forgot;
There the heav'n-tree spreads, and the tall locust wave
Their snow white flow'rs o'er the unknown grave.

And nearby its side,the wild rabbit tread,
And over its blossom the white thistles spread,
As if placed there in kindness to protect and save
From intruding footsteps the unknown grave,
Guarding the inknown grave.

And there reposes the prophet just;
The Lord was his guide, and in Him was his trust;
He restored the gospel our souls to save
But he now lies low in an unknown grave,
Low in an unknown grave.

God grant that we may watch and pray,
And keep our feet in the narrow way;
Our spirits and body in purity save,
To see him arise from his unknown grave!
God bless that unknown grave.

 

At 18 years old!

[HappyJackWagon]

15 minutes ago, mnn727 said:

I hate to have to ask, but what sad anniversary?

Martyrdom of Joseph and Hyrum

[USU78]

1 hour ago, CV75 said:

Absolutely. Our choir sung the following Sunday, which is extremely poignant" "The Unknown Grave" by David Hyrum Smith

According to the background explanation on a music sales website: "David Hyrum Smith, the youngest child of the prophet Joseph Smith, was yet unborn at the the time of the martyrdom. The prophet’s enemies were anxious to steal his body, so the sad burial was conducted in secret by a few of Joseph’s friends. Eighteen years later, in 1867, David composed the words and melody of this song reflecting upon his father’s “unknown grave.” Several versions of the text exist with various publication dates. These words have been chosen as the most representative..."

Here are the lyrics:

There's an unknown grave in a lonely spot,
But the form that it covers, will ne'er be forgot;
There the heav'n-tree spreads, and the tall locust wave
Their snow white flow'rs o'er the unknown grave.

And nearby its side,the wild rabbit tread,
And over its blossom the white thistles spread,
As if placed there in kindness to protect and save
From intruding footsteps the unknown grave,
Guarding the inknown grave.

And there reposes the prophet just;
The Lord was his guide, and in Him was his trust;
He restored the gospel our souls to save
But he now lies low in an unknown grave,
Low in an unknown grave.

God grant that we may watch and pray,
And keep our feet in the narrow way;
Our spirits and body in purity save,
To see him arise from his unknown grave!
God bless that unknown grave.

 

At 18 years old!

Thanks for that. I'd never seen it before. Very Scottish in its sensibility, isn't it? 

[CV75]

5 minutes ago, USU78 said:

Thanks for that. I'd never seen it before. Very Scottish in its sensibility, isn't it? 

Yes, and you ought to hear the tune (if you haven't)

[JLHPROF]

You beat me to it.  I was just about to post a tribute too.
 

• D&C 135:3 Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it.

 

• Joseph Smith holds the keys of this last dispensation, and is now engaged behind the vail in the great work of the last days. I can tell our beloved brother Christians who have slain the Prophets and butchered and otherwise caused the death of thousands of Latter-day Saints, the priests who have thanked God in their prayers and thanksgiving from the pulpit that we have been plundered, driven, and slain, and the deacons under the pulpit, and their brethren and sisters in their closets, who have thanked God, thinking that the Latter-day Saints were wasted away, something that no doubt will mortify them—something that, to say the least, is a matter of deep regret to them—namely, that no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are—I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent. He holds the keys of that kingdom for the last dispensation—the keys to rule in the spirit-world; and he rules there triumphantly, for he gained full power and a glorious victory over the power of Satan while he was yet in the flesh, and was a martyr to his religion and to the name of Christ, which gives him a most perfect victory in the spirit-world. He reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. Many will exclaim—"Oh, that is very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought!" But it is true. - Brigham Young

We had a musical number in our Sacrament meeting this past Sunday where this was sung.  Beautiful.

 

[thesometimesaint]

Personally I rather celebrate his wonderful, and marvelous life. He died too young.

[JLHPROF]

8 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

Personally I rather celebrate his wonderful, and marvelous life. He died too young.

I agree.  But that's like saying I'd rather celebrate Christmas than Easter.
The Savior also died far too young.  But his death was significant to us.  So was Joseph's.

[stemelbow]

3 hours ago, USU78 said:

Are Mormons entitled to weep for the lost, especially on this sad anniversary?

Weep for anything you want.  You are entitled to it no matter what.  But Joseph lived 200 years ago.  Even if he didn't die young, he'd be long gone now.  Do we weep because all people who were born 110 years ago are now gone? 

I think offering a sweet tribute like JHLPROF did, is quite appropriate though.  I just don't quite get your desire to weep. 

[JAHS]

"Millions shall know brother Joseph again" (Praise to the Man).

A very prophetic phrase in a song that is being fulfilled today. 

[Scott Lloyd]

4 hours ago, stemelbow said:

Weep for anything you want.  You are entitled to it no matter what.  But Joseph lived 200 years ago.  Even if he didn't die young, he'd be long gone now.  Do we weep because all people who were born 110 years ago are now gone? 

I think offering a sweet tribute like JHLPROF did, is quite appropriate though.  I just don't quite get your desire to weep. 

As we read and understand the wrenching events attendant to his martyrdom, it can make us feel sadness, even as a recitation or depiction of the Savior's Crucifixion can bring us to tears. In each instance, we can feel this even as we feel joy in subsequent events and their deep meaning to us today. 

Edited June 27, 2017 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

Combining somber remembrance and deep love and respect with joyous triumph, I associate this day with the dedication of the rebuilt Nauvoo Illinois Temple. It was held on the anniversary day of the martyrdom, and President Hinckley timed it to coincide with the precise hour that Joseph and Hyrum were killed. There could scarcely be a more fitting tribute to the Prophet of the Restoration and his having made the ultimate sacrifice. 

Edited June 27, 2017 by Scott Lloyd

[Tacenda]

I would love a time machine in order to visit the time era of Joseph Smith. Visiting Palmyra and Nauvoo didn't quite cut it. It would be nice to have a real photo of Joseph too. When people ask what person you would most like to meet that has passed on, I think Joseph would be on my list.  

[USU78]

3 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I would love a time machine in order to visit the time era of Joseph Smith. Visiting Palmyra and Nauvoo didn't quite cut it. It would be nice to have a real photo of Joseph too. When people ask what person you would most like to meet that has passed on, I think Joseph would be on my list.  

He was born too soon and done too soon for photography to have caught up with him.  It really is a pity.  I have a print of JSJR looking straight ahead, in the original frame, harvested from a SE Idaho wardhouse prior to its being torn down, then stored in a barn for decades, which I bought at a flee market just outside Montpelier.  You used to see the prints all the time.  I'll never part with it!

[USU78]

1 hour ago, stemelbow said:

Weep for anything you want.  You are entitled to it no matter what.  But Joseph lived 200 years ago.  Even if he didn't die young, he'd be long gone now.  Do we weep because all people who were born 110 years ago are now gone? 

I think offering a sweet tribute like JHLPROF did, is quite appropriate though.  I just don't quite get your desire to weep. 

Chacun a son gout.

[USU78]

4 hours ago, CV75 said:

Absolutely. Our choir sung the following Sunday, which is extremely poignant" "The Unknown Grave" by David Hyrum Smith

According to the background explanation on a music sales website: "David Hyrum Smith, the youngest child of the prophet Joseph Smith, was yet unborn at the the time of the martyrdom. The prophet’s enemies were anxious to steal his body, so the sad burial was conducted in secret by a few of Joseph’s friends. Eighteen years later, in 1867, David composed the words and melody of this song reflecting upon his father’s “unknown grave.” Several versions of the text exist with various publication dates. These words have been chosen as the most representative..."

Here are the lyrics:

There's an unknown grave in a lonely spot,
But the form that it covers, will ne'er be forgot;
There the heav'n-tree spreads, and the tall locust wave
Their snow white flow'rs o'er the unknown grave.

And nearby its side,the wild rabbit tread,
And over its blossom the white thistles spread,
As if placed there in kindness to protect and save
From intruding footsteps the unknown grave,
Guarding the inknown grave.

And there reposes the prophet just;
The Lord was his guide, and in Him was his trust;
He restored the gospel our souls to save
But he now lies low in an unknown grave,
Low in an unknown grave.

God grant that we may watch and pray,
And keep our feet in the narrow way;
Our spirits and body in purity save,
To see him arise from his unknown grave!
God bless that unknown grave.

 

At 18 years old!

 

[USU78]

4 hours ago, mnn727 said:

I hate to have to ask, but what sad anniversary?

Thanks for keeping it respectful.  *****

[cinepro]

2 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

I agree.  But that's like saying I'd rather celebrate Christmas than Easter.
The Savior also died far too young.  But his death was significant to us.  So was Joseph's.

Uh, that's really not true.  The savior's death was part of the plan of salvation that was instituted before the world was.

Joseph Smith's death was the result of an unfortunate conflagration of events in the mid 1840s, but the Church would argue that his most important work had been accomplished (alas, no Book of Joseph), and Brigham Young and subsequent Prophets were able to adapt whatever else was needed through the years.

Joseph's death is remembered because of its drama.  It's the Mormon Alamo.  Had Joseph died peacefully in his sleep from illnesses attendant to old age like the other Prophets have done, his death wouldn't have been any more or less "significant."  Only less memorable and suitable for dramatization.

I'm not saying it wasn't tragic, unjust and all the other things.  But we shouldn't confuse "memorable" with "important."

Edited June 27, 2017 by cinepro

[JLHPROF]

1 minute ago, cinepro said:

Uh, that's really not true.  The savior's death was part of the plan of salvation that was instituted before the world was.

Joseph Smith's death was the result of an unfortunate conflagration of events in the mid 1840s, but the Church would argue that his most important work had been accomplished (alas, no Book of Joseph), and Brigham Young and subsequent Prophets were able to adapt whatever else was needed through the years.

Joseph's death is remembered because of it's drama.  It's the Mormon Alamo.  Had Joseph died peacefully in his sleep from illnesses attendant to old age like the other Prophets have done, his death wouldn't have been any more or less "significant."  Only less memorable and suitable for dramatization.

I'm not saying it wasn't tragic, unjust and all the other things.  But we shouldn't confuse "memorable" with "important."

And I disagree with this.
But to each their own.

I believe Joseph's death was part of his calling as testator.

[cinepro]

1 hour ago, stemelbow said:

Weep for anything you want.  You are entitled to it no matter what.  But Joseph lived 200 years ago.  Even if he didn't die young, he'd be long gone now.  Do we weep because all people who were born 110 years ago are now gone? 

I think offering a sweet tribute like JHLPROF did, is quite appropriate though.  I just don't quite get your desire to weep. 

People who die young, especially in unusual circumstances, seem to achieve a certain type of immortality that isn't granted to those who slip away in their twilight years.  They are frozen in time.

 

[RevTestament]

2 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

I agree.  But that's like saying I'd rather celebrate Christmas than Easter.
The Savior also died far too young.  But his death was significant to us.  So was Joseph's.

But I don't view the Savior's death as sad, but noble. i recall it with great respect and reverence. I have both gratitude and love for our Savior and Joseph Smith. The Lord called Joseph Smith home as planned, that his words would be sealed by his death. If anything that was a great honor for Joseph.

[stemelbow]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

As we read and undersrand the wrenching events attendant to his martyrdom, it can make us feel sadness, even as a recitation or depiction of the Savior's Crucifixion can bring us to tears. In each instance, we can feel this even as we feel joy in subsequent events and their deep meaning to us today. 

Whatever floats your boat.  Feeling some sadness that his life ended as it did certainly feels like a different thing than weeping for the lost, whom you'd think can't be lost if he was God's prophet. 

Otherwise if USU wants to weep because Joseph is set to suffer eternally in some lesser kingdom, well, then, by all means weep away. 

[mnn727]

4 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Martyrdom of Joseph and Hyrum

Yeah, I figured that out after posting.

My feeling is that they had to seal their testimony with their blood.

[stemelbow]

20 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

And I disagree with this.
But to each their own.

I believe Joseph's death was part of his calling as testator.

Yeah well he was going to die anyway, at some point. to claim this calling of testator, it seems.  One must wonder, would he have died if he wasn't a polygamist?  If for some reason polygamy is not of God, and Joseph did not feel inspired or compelled by an angel to live it and was not killed, would he have not fulfilled his calling as testator? 

Quote

For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

I don't think you mean to allude to section 135 since it was authored after Joseph's death.  Seems like he would have been a testator whether he died due to violence or not, it seems.