O, Give Me Back My Prophet Dear

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Add one more to the list below. I'm just shocked we don't have a photo. I read that photography had been around back then and it was very plausible that he would have had one done.

http://www.ldsliving.com/Do-Photographs-of-the-Prophet-Joseph-Smith-Exist/s/82207

It was around (daguerreotype photography), just not as common as it would be.

Several years ago, a researcher, while looking up something else, found an unidentified photo in the Library of Congress that is almost certainly of Oliver Cowdery.

[CV75]

2 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

This.. Exactly.
It's a speculation used to explain a few quotes, and yes, it "floats my boat".
And yes, either way, Joseph was more than just another in a line of equal prophets.

Not all that unique.  It was so common in the early Utah period that one of the Pratt's had to get up and tell people to stop teaching it.

Absolutely.  And so they should.
But on this board we are a little more open minded.

Yes, that is what Joseph taught in 1841.
Two years later he implied the Holy Ghost was actually in his mortal probation.  Continuing revelation.

I think those who speculate have a home in the Church... I know this is true true because i heard it on a podcast.

I think he is the head of this dispensation of course, and I've heard prophets since my tenure in the Church refer to him as their priesthood superior (in so many words).

[JLHPROF]

2 hours ago, RevTestament said:

Not as I read him. He said the Holy Spirit would have a mortal probation. While Joseph Smith was in his mortal probation, he received a revelation that the Holy Spirit IS a personage of spirit without a body.

"“Would to God, brethren, I could tell you who I am! Would to God I could tell you what I know! But you would call it blasphemy, and there are men upon this stand who would want to take my life."    JS - (Life of Heber C. Kimball, p. 322.)

 

[CV75]

7 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

"“Would to God, brethren, I could tell you who I am! Would to God I could tell you what I know! But you would call it blasphemy, and there are men upon this stand who would want to take my life."    JS - (Life of Heber C. Kimball, p. 322.)

 

I thought this was a reference to his being Judas' guardian angel (sorry!) LOL

[JAHS]

"Shortly before the Martyrdom, in a meeting attended by nine members of the Twelve, the Prophet Joseph Smith prophetically said: 'Brethren, the Lord bids me hasten the work in which we are engaged. Some important scene is near to take place. It may be that my enemies will kill me. And in case they should, and the keys and power which rest on me not be imparted to you, they will be lost from the earth. But if I can only succeed in placing them upon your heads, then let me fall a victim to murderous hands if God will suffer it, and I can go with all pleasure and satisfaction, knowing that my work is done, and the foundation laid on which the kingdom of God is to be reared in this dispensation of the fulness of times. Upon the shoulders of the Twelve must the responsibility of leading this church henceforth rest until you shall appoint others to succeed you'" (Draft declaration of the Twelve Apostles, reporting March 1844 meeting of Twelve, Brigham Young Papers, LDS Church Archives).

[Avatar4321]

5 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

This.. Exactly.
It's a speculation used to explain a few quotes, and yes, it "floats my boat".
And yes, either way, Joseph was more than just another in a line of equal prophets.

Not all that unique.  It was so common in the early Utah period that one of the Pratt's had to get up and tell people to stop teaching it.

Absolutely.  And so they should.
But on this board we are a little more open minded.

Yes, that is what Joseph taught in 1841.
Two years later he implied the Holy Ghost was actually in his mortal probation.  Continuing revelation.

Where did he imply that?

[Ouagadougou]

12 hours ago, USU78 said:

Are Mormons entitled to weep for the lost, especially on this sad anniversary?

I won't be weeping on this anniversary--but I might drink some wine tonight.  

[JAHS]

45 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

6 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

This.. Exactly.
It's a speculation used to explain a few quotes, and yes, it "floats my boat".
And yes, either way, Joseph was more than just another in a line of equal prophets.

Not all that unique.  It was so common in the early Utah period that one of the Pratt's had to get up and tell people to stop teaching it.

Absolutely.  And so they should.
But on this board we are a little more open minded.

Yes, that is what Joseph taught in 1841.
Two years later he implied the Holy Ghost was actually in his mortal probation.  Continuing revelation.

Where did he imply that?

Joseph Smith once said that, "The Holy Ghost is yet a spiritual body and is waiting to take to himself a body, as the Savior did."[Joseph Smith, Encyclopedia of Joseph Smith's Teachings, edited by Larry E. Dahl and Donald Q. Cannon (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1997)]
and;
"The Holy Ghost is now in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has." (Joseph Smith, The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 245; Sabbath address, Nauvoo, 27 August 1843. Reported by Franklin D. Richards.) 

So 2 years later he did say He was in a state of probation but did not specify "mortal" probation.

[Robert F. Smith]

10 hours ago, stemelbow said:

Weep for anything you want.  You are entitled to it no matter what.  But Joseph lived 200 years ago.  Even if he didn't die young, he'd be long gone now.  Do we weep because all people who were born 110 years ago are now gone? 

I think offering a sweet tribute like JHLPROF did, is quite appropriate though.  I just don't quite get your desire to weep. 

I  have known non-Mormon Christians who wept freely when recalling the scourging and horrific death of Jesus.  It is hard to hold back tears in the face of such deep love and sacrifice.  It is natural to feel crushed by the murderous actions of evil men in taking such great lights out of our midst.  I cried all day at the death of Martin Luther King Jr.  Just couldn't stop.  Of course, I also wept the day that Israeli paratroops took the Old City of Jerusalem in June 1967.  Not sure exactly why, but I could see all the Jewish women nearby also crying at that moment.  Something happened . . .

[Gray]

I think it makes sense to weep when considering the details of his death. Of course he'd be long dead by now either way, but so would Abraham Lincoln. That doesn't make the deaths not tragic.

Personally I don't get weepy about Joseph Smith's death, or Lincoln's death for that matter. But I get why it's appropriate.

Edited June 28, 2017 by Gray

[pogi]

17 minutes ago, Gray said:

...But I get why it's appropriate.

I think it is sad when we have to justify our reasons for weeping.  

Christ asked us to mourn with those who mourn, not question those who mourn.

[USU78]

7 minutes ago, pogi said:

I think it is sad when we have to justify our reasons for weeping.  

Christ asked us to mourn with those who mourn, not question those who mourn.

Think Mosiah 18. Covenant.

[RevTestament]

5 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

"“Would to God, brethren, I could tell you who I am! Would to God I could tell you what I know! But you would call it blasphemy, and there are men upon this stand who would want to take my life."    JS - (Life of Heber C. Kimball, p. 322.)

 

My quote is the words of Joseph Smith himself. Your quote is a second hand account of what Joseph Smith said by Franklin D Richards of the Presidency. 

---

Franklin D. Richards (First Presidency)

Joseph also said that the Holy Ghost is now in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has. (The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 245; standardized) 

My quote:

Joseph Smith (President)

But the Holy Ghost is yet a spiritual body and waiting to take to himself a body, as the Savior did or as God did or the gods before them took bodies; for the Savior says the work that my Father did do I also. . . . He took himself a body and then laid down his life that he might take it up again. (The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 382; standardized)

 

I'm afraid my quote takes precedence. Hazard of the Mormon trade, and just another example of people not quite getting right what Joseph Smith said or meant. I fear Mormon history is replete with it - including BY - which is another reason why I don't believe the Garden of Eden is in America!

 

[RevTestament]

2 hours ago, JAHS said:

Joseph Smith once said that, "The Holy Ghost is yet a spiritual body and is waiting to take to himself a body, as the Savior did."[Joseph Smith, Encyclopedia of Joseph Smith's Teachings, edited by Larry E. Dahl and Donald Q. Cannon (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1997)]
and;
"The Holy Ghost is now in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has." (Joseph Smith, The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 245; Sabbath address, Nauvoo, 27 August 1843. Reported by Franklin D. Richards.) 

So 2 years later he did say He was in a state of probation but did not specify "mortal" probation.

yep, my thinking exactly.

[stemelbow]

9 hours ago, pogi said:

I think it is sad when we have to justify our reasons for weeping.  

Christ asked us to mourn with those who mourn, not question those who mourn.

My apologies to all.  I didn't intend for anyone to feel as if he/she had to justify reasons for weeping.  I meant to only suggest it seemed weird to me to weep for Joseph being gone or lost.  The cause of death was tragic, no doubt.  And I get why people are sad about that. 

[RevTestament]

4 hours ago, stemelbow said:

My apologies to all.  I didn't intend for anyone to feel as if he/she had to justify reasons for weeping.  I meant to only suggest it seemed weird to me to weep for Joseph being gone or lost.  The cause of death was tragic, no doubt.  And I get why people are sad about that. 

Indeed, they would do unusually well to be chosen to honor God in a similar fashion.

John 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry theewhither thou wouldest not.

19 This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.

[Scott Lloyd]

Yesterday, on the anniversary day of the martyrdom, I was privileged and pleased to attend the 2017 Seminar for New Mission Presidents held at the Provo Utah MIssionary Training Center. I heard the MTC choir twice perform an anthem version of "Praise to the Man." And I heard Elder David A. Bednar and others pay tribute to the Prophet.

Whatever cynicism and contempt for the Prophet may be rampant in the world and, regrettably, among some of our own people, it is clear that the General Authorities of the Church do love and honor Joseph Smith, reverence his divine calling and view with amazement what he, under authority and with strength from God, accomplished within his short lifetime.

[thesometimesaint]

On 6/27/2017 at 9:32 AM, JLHPROF said:

I agree.  But that's like saying I'd rather celebrate Christmas than Easter.
The Savior also died far too young.  But his death was significant to us.  So was Joseph's.

That he did. But I celebrate his Resurrection every week.