Parenting is Hard

[bsjkki]

6 minutes ago, katherine the great said:

I have no idea.  I don't really even know how much of a problem this one was for my boys.  I just make the assumption that it is completely normal and that all boys do it. I didn't really get involved in their interaction with their priesthood leaders but I did voice my opinion to them (my sons) that I believe there are some things that fall into the category of "none of anyone else's business".

Good advice. I agree...I wish he would have come to us first.

[rpn]

There are ex-mormons who will tell you that as soon as they left the church and all the talk about how horrible M and porn were, their interest in either disappeared.  If you have never shared Of Souls, Symbols and Sacraments with your teenagers, I recommend it.  http://www.familylifeeducation.org/gilliland/procgroup/Souls.htm

And the way I teach this to my family is like this:

We had progressed as far as we could in the pre-existence without a body.   We came here for the express purpose of getting that body and learning to control and use its parts (mouths, tongues, feet, eyes, arms, legs, appetites and passions) in submission to our Heavenly Parents will so that we could become like Them.  This means we learn to speak kindly, and eat healthily, and get enough sleep, and appreciate beauty in all its forms and control the things that go into our ears so that we can be everything we wanted from pre-existence to be.   Sexual passion is one of the most profoundly important and strongest of all our appetites.   That is why starting from a young age to reserve it for its eternal righteous purpose makes it easier to control over the long haul (including after marriage).  Masturbation doesn't mean you'll grow hairy hands or that you are bad or wicked.   It means that you have not yet learned to control those desires and use them the way God intends them to be used.   And the fact is that sticking to a decision made when one is young, makes it dramatically easier to control one's self one's whole life.   But if you did start toying with this instead of controlling it, you can still learn how to control it.   And that is how the recognition of risky times and feelings is important, and setting up the support system that will help you, and learning to drop and do pushups until the desire goes away, or whatever you have set up, is so important.    Despite what you may read, and although these feelings are absolutely part of the natural man, there are men and women everywhere who have chosen not to do things that the world may say are completely normal, because they are determined to become what God wants them to become.   And  you can too.

Of course you can tell from this that while I absolutely believe that M and porn are behaviors that increase the likelihood of sin because they exercise those god given desires instead of banking them for the proper time, I also do not believe that people who do it are sinful, but rather simply not in control of themselves as God expects them to be.    And I think that when bishops put teens on probation for this kind of thing, it often doesn't help them learn better to control themselves in submission to God either.  Rather teenagers feel such unworthiness that they give up hope (and it doesn't help when those who aren't honest but are doing the same thing ARE passing the sacrament, either, which is a really common issue.   It helps to make it a matter of part of the reason they came to earth to learn to control this and other parts and passions in God's service, rather than something that makes them unworthy or wicked.  

Edited June 26, 2017 by rpn

[MorningStar]

9 hours ago, YJacket said:

Did the guy lie about it to you or did your son lie to you about it? Never underestimate the ability of a child to lie right to the face of the parent.

One addendum; when I say unplug-I mean ensure 100% that he cannot access the internet. That will probably mean unplugging the router and sticking the router is a location that he cannot get to.  Yes it is a lot of work-but internet and porn addiction is really powerful; how badly do you want and how far are you willing to go to ensure that porn filth does not come across on your wires (you are paying for the internet-and most likely the phones), so as the rightful owner you can do as you please with it (he doesn't pay the bill for internet).

No, my son has been honest with me from the moment I confronted him.  I noticed he was watching Ted Talks on pornography addiction and I thought he was just learning about it at first.  He was trying to get the courage to tell me.  As for his leader - his now ex-wife has told me horror stories about his behavior.  

[MorningStar]

3 hours ago, katherine the great said:

If it's any comfort to you, my three boys are all well married now and seem to have very healthy relationships with their wives.  They bring me much more joy at this point in my life than my daughters.   I love my girls fiercely, but sometimes I think American girls are generally more messed up than our boys.  

Thank you!  I appreciate your input so much.  It was the perfect storm - school issued laptop at the time he was being bullied by boys in our ward.  

[MorningStar]

6 hours ago, YJacket said:

I'm not saying you are doing a bad job of blocking; just that if he is reasonably smart with a computer (and most kids these days are), you probably only think you are blocking him.  I can almost guarantee he will find away around it.  And you might ask him and he might say no; but again even really good kids will instantly lie to their parents if they think they can get away with it (even when they can't get away with it they will still lie). If he wants to he can find away around any block you put in.

The only sure-fire way to block is to pull the plug.

Thanks!  I have been removing the plug to the router and other times I lock the computer.  He is not computer savvy and doesn't take an interest in being computer savvy.  

[katherine the great]

5 minutes ago, MorningStar said:

Thank you!  I appreciate your input so much.  It was the perfect storm - school issued laptop at the time he was being bullied by boys in our ward.  

He sounds like a great kid who will be a great man someday.  Hugs! 

[YJacket]

1 hour ago, MorningStar said:

Thanks!  I have been removing the plug to the router and other times I lock the computer.  He is not computer savvy and doesn't take an interest in being computer savvy.  

Sounds like you are doing as much as you can possibly do; keep doing what you are doing, pray for him and hope he eventually sees the light.

[YJacket]

1 hour ago, MorningStar said:

Thanks!  I have been removing the plug to the router and other times I lock the computer.  He is not computer savvy and doesn't take an interest in being computer savvy.  

In many ways, be thankful he isn't computer savvy.  Sounds like he is a decent kid with a problem that he has to fix and that you've done a pretty good job and trying to help him but also let him solve his own problems.  Not much else you really can do; kids have their own free agency and sometimes no matter what we do as parents they will still choose to go down paths that are unwise.  HF is the perfect parent and look how many of his children really go off the rails. 

It is sad, it is heartbreaking and very tough to watch a child continue to make choices that are not in their best interest, but there is a point where all you can do is just love them.

[Calm]

10 hours ago, MorningStar said:

I didn't send him links about a mission.  I sent him links about addiction recovery.  He has to make the decision and he has to decide he needs to regulate himself.  He doesn't have a cell phone or any other device.  We only have the family computer and I lock him out of it.  He has to do homework on the computer using the Internet, so I stay up quite late if he's up late doing homework.  At this point I think it's the big M and that's why he can't stake the sacrament. I can block him from pornography, but I can't block him from his own body.  There is no recovery group option for him for him here and he initially said no to therapy, but he's warming up to the idea.  Bishops basically say, "Get a job. Stay busy. Think of a hymn."  That doesn't work at all.  Stress is a factor in addictions.  I've talked to him about what a therapist taught in a class with is HALTS.  Hungry Angry Lonely Tired Stressed (or sick). Identify what is bothering you and try to fix it rather than trying to escape.  Years ago he was given a school issued laptop that he was required to use at home and at school.  That's what started this crap.  My worst fear.  I couldn't lock him out of that and now our new school is talking about getting laptops for the kids too.   

Is it the age that means no recovery group option or no group period?  If no group, maybe you could talk to stake leaders about starting one?  If age, while frustrating to wait, he can go when 18 so just a few more months (is he really almost 18...can't believe it has been that long).

Maybe Bernard Gui can give you some suggestions for stuff he can do on his own or how to push to get a group started in your area.  You should PM him.

[Calm]

Apparently you can have meetings by phone these days:

https://addictionrecovery.lds.org/find-a-meeting?lang=eng

[MorningStar]

16 hours ago, Calm said:

Is it the age that means no recovery group option or no group period?  If no group, maybe you could talk to stake leaders about starting one?  If age, while frustrating to wait, he can go when 18 so just a few more months (is he really almost 18...can't believe it has been that long).

Maybe Bernard Gui can give you some suggestions for stuff he can do on his own or how to push to get a group started in your area.  You should PM him.

Nothing for his age group here.  There was one in our last stake, but he didn't actually find it all that helpful and it was at 5pm on a scout night.  Took me 30 minutes to get him there, an hour long, 30 minutes to get back, and there was no time for dinner.  

[CV75]

On 6/25/2017 at 9:20 PM, MorningStar said:

I thought toddlers were hard, but teenagers are way harder and they influence the rest of the family.  I have a son who is struggling.  He has a testimony, but he hasn't been taking the sacrament and intentionally sabotages us when it comes to being to church on time or often doesn't go because he is avoiding the awkwardness of refusing the sacrament or blessing it.    He's had some people with good intentions push the issue, "Come on!  Why don't you want to bless it?"  DUH!!!  He had to pull a kid aside and explain that he was having personal issues so he would finally get it.  

Anyway, I'm trying not to make it a power struggle, but we have three teenage boys, an 8-year-old girl, and a 2-year-old girl.  I don't want them learning that they can just blow off church like their brother is attempting to do, but as he is late every single week, others don't bother to get ready because they know we're not leaving on time anyway, so why bother?  We miss taking the sacrament the majority of the time and if I were to say, "We're leaving without you if you're late", then he would be fine with that.  So usually we wait for him to show we love him and don't want to go to church without him.  

I've asked about what incentive would work.  If we are on time every week for x amount of weeks, is there a reward that would motivate them?  We can't just drive back and forth and our other boys aren't making it to church to pass the sacrament or anything because of their brother.  I don't know how tough to get with this boy and visits with the bishop aren't helping.  This morning we were supposed to be there at 8:15 because I needed to warm up with the choir, but we made it an hour later than that.  The choir director was worried because she really needed my voice.  One lady had to drop out at the last minute.  

Ugh.

Anyway, I know many of you have probably gone through similar things and I could use some advice as I pray about this.

Just brainstorming. Is there an adult (or two or three--YMP, HTs for example to rotate) he trusts that is willing to pick him up separately and doesn't mind missing sacrament (or can take it at another ward)? Is there a trusted family friend that can pick up the other children on time while you wait with him? And if you rotate any of the above, no one will have to miss sacrament very often. You can be as discrete or as open as you are comfortable being. Maybe over time the Lord will give you better ideas. Hopefully your son will feel more comfortable soon.

[jana at jade house]

My only solid contribution: maybe he can be assigned door watch during sacrament, then he won't have an audience at sacrament time.  after sacrament he can then sit with the family....?

[Avatar4321]

What is the Lord saying to do about it?

[Meerkat]

On 6/25/2017 at 6:20 PM, MorningStar said:

Anyway, I know many of you have probably gone through similar things and I could use some advice as I pray about this. 

If we could just figure out a way to curb their agency, life would be so much easier.  We had five children (now grown) also. Two were rebellious and pushed back a lot.  Three were apparently compliant.  The two rebels are now our most faithful and dedicated.  A 3rd rides the fence about 20 percent of the time (getting better.) The youngest two, returned missionary Temple marrieds, have divorced, left the Church and estranged the family.  Yes, as with you and others here, it was porn addiction.  It was all completely out of the blue and heartbreaking.  But the lessons learned are invaluable.  

If we could do it over, we would find ways to let out the cord gently so our children could experience the natural consequences of their choices early on so they didn't have to learn from greater mis-steps..  We didn't want them to sin and suffer, so we were more strict than was probably wise.  But we all must learn from our own experiences somehow.  Even the great lessons we are learning now.

When the rebels were demanding all our time, we forgot that we had three others who were also depending on us.  Actually, we were too exhausted and upset a good part of the time to notice.  Those three did not get as much time as the other two. Certainly not as much as they needed and deserved. 

Today's fence rider had a gift of organization.  When we needed something done and done right, who were we going to call?  You guessed it.  Need the kitchen cleaned?  Call her. Need the laundry done? Call her.  How about A meal, or babysitting so we could attend the Temple?  She was so apparently cheerful, and grateful for the opportunity, it didn't occur to us to look a little closer behind the mask she wore. Then one day, the explosion happened and that blissful time of our life was over.  "Wait a minute.  Why isn't anybody else doing their chores? Why does everything fall to me? It isn't FAIR!!!  I'm done."  And she was. She was right, and we hadn't even noticed.

With 20/20 hindsight, I believe we could have enlisted her aid in the challenges we were facing.  I could have taken her aside and pointed out the resistance we were experiencing, and offered to pay her for the extra responsibility she was shouldering, just to make it fair.  She would have understood and been happy to help.  I would have also asked her to let us know when she was feeling overloaded also, so we could relieve some of the pressure and meet more of her very real needs.

Now we pray and fast more than ever before.  We study the Scriptures and Ensign more earnestly and desperately.  We are more grateful and quick to acknowledge answered prayers. And we are seeing them.  Our patience is being sorely tested.  But the answered prayers strengthen our faith considerably.

We are learning things about the Atonement that we never wanted to know.  But now, we wouldn't trade that knowledge for anything, except maybe having our two boys back.  But we would seek other ways to obtain that knowledge.

Parenting is hard.  But the silver lining is meeting God in our extremities, just as the earlier Pioneers did.  The family support group 12 step in the Church also brings us great peace, understanding and comfort.  We've attended nearly every week for about three years.  We don't like to miss it.

May the Lord richly bless you and your sweet family for your desire, and your prayers.

Edited July 4, 2017 by Meerkat

[Guest]

MorningStar,

Parenting teenagers is much like navigating through a minefield. Every step, could be a misstep, leading to disaster. It is a time when our children are growing into, or trying to figure out what type of adult they will become. As with persons of any age, (as we are all human and ever evolving) our actions can make it difficult, if not impossible to feel the prompting influence of the Holy Spirit. During such times, it is even more important for parents to fill that gap, to stir within them the times (memories) when they could feel that Spiritual influence. The motto of every parent, especially those parents in Zion, must be; "Never give up, never surrender"! When our children struggle and cannot feel "Spiritual, or the Holy Spirit", it is all the more important that we can feel it, and become their guide, their "Spiritual Guide". It is not the calling of the Bishop, or any other, it is ours, and God will make us equal to the task. He will do this because our children are His children also. Children want boundaries, they feel safe with them, as such they are always pushing to see where those boundaries are. I now have teenage grandchildren, which means...I am still lost most of the time and trying to find my way, with my children and grandchildren.  God bless you as you feel your way ahead, you and your family will remain in my prayers. 

[MorningStar]

Thank you, all.  I think what is hardest on me is that my dad left and never came back.  My grandma just passed away on Sunday and for a decade or so, she would say, "I don't know what I believe anymore" to the point that we didn't know what kind of funeral to give her.  Most of my dad's siblings left too.  To have a child struggle like this, it's easy to picture him leaving and never returning.  I appreciate everyone's replies.  Thanks again.  <3  

[juliann]

On 6/26/2017 at 0:05 AM, katherine the great said:

I have raised three boys so this is an issue I am familiar with. My attitude is different than most LDS though. My intention in saying this is not to offend, but my feelings have changed markedly on this issue over the years as I've seen the angst teenage boys have to endure in our culture. I think its wrong to withhold the sacrament from a faithful, believing young person who is completely normal in every way and doing no harm to others. I think we are driving away a lot of very fine young people by continuing to shame them for a completely normal behavior. Its certainly a worthy goal to learn complete self control, but there is a lot of variation in their abilities to do so when they are young. I know that most Bishops don't think of it in terms of shaming, but taking the sacrament is a public act and people do notice and sometimes talk and teenagers are acutely aware of this. I personally would accommodate the kid and let him be late or find another task to do for the first fifteen minutes of the meeting if he is unable to participate. The other kids would just have to deal with it.

This. A hundred times this.

[Jeanne]

20 hours ago, juliann said:

This. A hundred times this.

I agree.

[Jeanne]

You rock Morning Star.  You are there. You are aware...and your son (though maybe later) will see your love and dedication on his behalf.  Whatever direction his life takes in the future, you can bet that he will think first..before he hurts you. Wishing you much love and success in your relationship.  Yes..MOM!  It is so hard!!

Edited July 6, 2017 by Jeanne

[Meerkat]

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Edited July 7, 2017 by Meerkat
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