Calling up the dead

[Sanpitch]

While working on long dead ancestor's graves with my returned missionary brother in-law, we noticed that a group of graves had been covered with cement.  BIL said, "they're going to have a hard time calling those from the grave."  If this isn't too close to temple related, what is the belief on actually calling someone from the grave?  Seems I have heard this topic mentioned most of my life.  Is it just a myth or an actual belief.

[Duncan]

I have never heard of that before but I have heard of when people are resurrected they will be called up by a family member or at least a PH, i'm assuming we don't have those keys yet though. That won't happen until Christ comes again

[bluebell]

I'm not sure why any condition of the grave would make it more difficult than another. 

[Sanpitch]

 But the question is, is it a belief or a myth, bluebell. 

[CV75]

1 hour ago, Sanpitch said:

While working on long dead ancestor's graves with my returned missionary brother in-law, we noticed that a group of graves had been covered with cement.  BIL said, "they're going to have a hard time calling those from the grave."  If this isn't too close to temple related, what is the belief on actually calling someone from the grave?  Seems I have heard this topic mentioned most of my life.  Is it just a myth or an actual belief.

Not to speak ill of the dead, but some people are really way too attached to their cell phones.

[Bobbieaware]

1 hour ago, Sanpitch said:

While working on long dead ancestor's graves with my returned missionary brother in-law, we noticed that a group of graves had been covered with cement.  BIL said, "they're going to have a hard time calling those from the grave."  If this isn't too close to temple related, what is the belief on actually calling someone from the grave?  Seems I have heard this topic mentioned most of my life.  Is it just a myth or an actual belief.

The scriptures repeatedly and clearly testify the remains of the dead will be reanimated (resurrected) and will rise from their graves into immortality. Why should there be any doubt or mystery concerning whether or not the doctrine of the literal physical resurrection is a fundamental and firmly-established Christian doctrine?  

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. (John 5)

Edited June 24, 2017 by Bobbieaware

[poptart]

Just my thoughts, I see this and it reminds me of the theory behind burial mounds/graves waaay back when.  If the person who died was not such a nice guy the grave was a way to keep him from coming back as a drow elf/wraith; the grave marker literally kept him there.  With mounds it was apeasement as well as a marker for families to visit during the solctices when the veil between worlds is thinnest and the spirits of the dead would return to visit living family. 

[Sanpitch]

Bobbieaware, your answer would seem to answer my question but I was thinking more along the lines as Duncan said, "I have never heard of that before but I have heard of when people are resurrected they will be called up by a family member or at least a PH,..."

I assumed the wife would be called up by a priesthood holder or more likely by her husband, more on a personal touch.  And then I think what is called from the grave, the bones?  The spirit is already somewhere else.

[mfbukowski]

2 hours ago, Sanpitch said:

While working on long dead ancestor's graves with my returned missionary brother in-law, we noticed that a group of graves had been covered with cement.  BIL said, "they're going to have a hard time calling those from the grave."  If this isn't too close to temple related, what is the belief on actually calling someone from the grave?  Seems I have heard this topic mentioned most of my life.  Is it just a myth or an actual belief.

Whats the difference between an "actual belief" and a "myth"??

What are you asking?   Is this about resurrection?

[Calm]

7 hours ago, Bobbieaware said:

The scriptures repeatedly and clearly testify the remains of the dead will be reanimated (resurrected) and will rise from their graves into immortality. Why should there be any doubt or mystery concerning whether or not the doctrine of the literal physical resurrection is a fundamental and firmly-established Christian doctrine?  

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. (John 5)

Probably because of at least two issues, the first is there are plenty of dead whose remains have been spread to the four corners of the world and second, the elements of remains not unnaturally preserved quite possibly have been used multiple times by different beings, including other humans.  Think of a decomposed body supplying nutrients to grass and then that grass is eaten by deer, which is the caught and eaten by another human.  And imagine that happening over and over in some fashion for the at least thousands of years humanity has existed.  So which human gets that element when "called forth from the grave"?  The fits person it existed in, the last, the nicest, the noisiest?

Edited June 24, 2017 by Calm

[Sanpitch]

6 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Whats the difference between an "actual belief" and a "myth"??

What are you asking?   Is this about resurrection?

I don't know, I'm just asking, probably about resurrection and I think the difference between actual beliefs and myths are clear.

[mfbukowski]

6 minutes ago, Sanpitch said:

I don't know, I'm just asking, probably about resurrection and I think the difference between actual beliefs and myths are clear.

So you can't have a belief in a myth?  Oh come on!  Most people on earth believe myths

Edited June 24, 2017 by mfbukowski

[Duncan]

32 minutes ago, Sanpitch said:

Bobbieaware, your answer would seem to answer my question but I was thinking more along the lines as Duncan said, "I have never heard of that before but I have heard of when people are resurrected they will be called up by a family member or at least a PH,..."

I assumed the wife would be called up by a priesthood holder or more likely by her husband, more on a personal touch.  And then I think what is called from the grave, the bones?  The spirit is already somewhere else.

I'm sure what to say will be explained in a memo, email, meeting or something. It probably won't be though "Dave, come forth from the grave!" or "Sheila, Sheila, izzy wizzy bones let's get busy!"

Edited June 24, 2017 by Duncan

[Sanpitch]

13 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

So you can't have a belief in a myth?  Oh come on!  Most people on earth believe myths

True.  But I think some beliefs of church members are myths such as "The White Horse Prophecy" and that "someday we'll be walking back to Missouri "  To me are myths not official church doctrine.

[mfbukowski]

20 minutes ago, Sanpitch said:

True.  But I think some beliefs of church members are myths such as "The White Horse Prophecy" and that "someday we'll be walking back to Missouri "  To me are myths not official church doctrine.

Resurrection is official church doctrine

Does that answer the question?

[mfbukowski]

If anyone has been endowed, the answer to these questions should be pretty clear.

[Sanpitch]

19 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

If anyone has been endowed, the answer to these questions should be pretty clear.

As I suspected, so just as well to drop it.

[Bobbieaware]

11 hours ago, Calm said:

Probably because of at least two issues, the first is there are plenty of dead whose remains have been spread to the four corners of the world and second, the elements of remains not unnaturally preserved have quite possibly be have been used multiple times by different beings, including other humans.  Think of a decomposed body supplying nutrients to grass and then that grass is eaten by deer, which is the caught and eaten by another human.  And imagine that happening over and over in some fashion for the at least thousands of years humanity has existed.  So which human gets that element when "called forth from the grave"?  The fits person it existed in, the last, the nicest, the noisiest?

I'm well aware of the points you make. My opinion is that if there are any existing remains in the grave of a particular individual, whatever remains that are still extant will be incorporated into that individual's resurrected body. But if, for instance, we're talking about a soldier who was killed in battle over 4,000 years ago, and the elements that once composed his body have been scattered to the four corners of the earth or have been organically recycled, the Lord will know what to do to be sure the soldier gets his body back. But the bottom line is that, generally speaking, I believe the Lord will honor the sacred remnants of each human body by incorporating those remains into the resurrected body. But again, if there are no remains to work with the Lord will know what to do.

Edited June 24, 2017 by Bobbieaware

[JAHS]

4 hours ago, Sanpitch said:

While working on long dead ancestor's graves with my returned missionary brother in-law, we noticed that a group of graves had been covered with cement.  BIL said, "they're going to have a hard time calling those from the grave."  If this isn't too close to temple related, what is the belief on actually calling someone from the grave?  Seems I have heard this topic mentioned most of my life.  Is it just a myth or an actual belief.

You think they will have a hard time. How about these ladies? This is a cave behind a church in a city in Austria filled with nun bones. When they had to bury a nun that had recently died they would remove bones from an old grave to make room for a new nun body and put the old bones in this cave.  An Apostle of the church was shown this and he said, It's going to be awfully crowded in here at resurrection time.

[MiserereNobis]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

If anyone has been endowed, the answer to these questions should be pretty clear.

Such a tease!

 

[mfbukowski]

34 minutes ago, Bobbieaware said:

I'm well aware of the points you make. My opinion is that if there are any existing remains in the grave of a particular individual, whatever remains that are still extant will be incorporated into that individuals resurrected body. But if, for instance, we're talking about a soldier who was killed in battle over 4,000 years ago, and the elements that once composed his body have been scattered to the four corners of the earth or have been organically recycled, the Lord will know what to do to be sure the soldier gets his body back. But the bottom line is that, generally speaking, I believe the Lord will honor the sacred remnants of each human body by incorporating those remains into the resurrected body. But again, if there are no remains to work with the Lord will know what to do.

I have heard some say that there is not enough material in the universe to allow all the bodies to be re-created but I find this a pretty odd argument since we are talking about raising people who have been dead for thousands of years, which is not horribly scientific on its face

I agree that if the Lord can do it.  I think he will have had that problem solved. 

[mfbukowski]

30 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Such a tease!

 

Yeah I really shouldnt do that I guess

The endowment is the history of the plan of salvation simultaneously taught through the life of "Everyman" represented by the journey of Adam and Eve but no one seems to actually listen to it.  The steps of physical resurrection are pretty clearly stated to me, but what do I know.

It's kind of an ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny thing.

Edited June 24, 2017 by mfbukowski

[Duncan]

24 minutes ago, JAHS said:

You think they will have a hard time. How about these ladies? This is a cave behind a church in a city in Austria filled with nun bones. When they had to bury a nun that had recently died they would remove bones from an old grave to make room for a new nun body and put the old bones in this cave.  An Apostle of the church was shown this and he said, It's going to be awfully crowded in here at resurrection time.

ah, maybe they'll do it like the winning contestant on the Price is Right, one by one and to get them all processed but alas, these people won't win snorkeling gear or a nice cutlery set

[JLHPROF]

2 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

If anyone has been endowed, the answer to these questions should be pretty clear.

My sentiments exactly.

Baptism should likewise give us some idea, as to being called forth from the grave by priesthood authority having just taken upon certain things.

[Robert F. Smith]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

Probably because of at least two issues, the first is there are plenty of dead whose remains have been spread to the four corners of the world and second, the elements of remains not unnaturally preserved have quite possibly be have been used multiple times by different beings, including other humans.  Think of a decomposed body supplying nutrients to grass and then that grass is eaten by deer, which is the caught and eaten by another human.  And imagine that happening over and over in some fashion for the at least thousands of years humanity has existed.  So which human gets that element when "called forth from the grave"?  The fits person it existed in, the last, the nicest, the noisiest?

Yes, and especially when the person was cremated and his ashes spread at sea, or in the mountains.  The elements and molecules which once composed the living being can be remade on the spot, and do not have to be the "original" elements and molecules -- which change in any animal or human constantly throughout his life anyhow.  There is no static existence of any living being, except in the Resurrection to immortality and glory.