Popular Post pogi Posted June 5, 2017 Popular Post Posted June 5, 2017 My parents invited us over for dinner last night in Orem. They live in the ward I was talking about in a previous thread with close to 100% activity rate and almost no non-members in their ward boundaries. We had an interesting discussion about a church program their ward is piloting that is supposed to be implemented church wide in January (according to my parents). We also discussed a very interesting Sunday School class that their ward has started. One would expect a ward with such high activity rate in conservative Utah Valley to be super orthodox and conservative in their approach, but it turns out that their ward is currently one of the most progressive that I have ever heard of. First, I will talk about the SS class in their ward. Their first counselor in the bishopric approached the bishop with an idea for a SS class which covered the church essays. The bishop liked the idea and the first counselor is teaching the class. Last Sunday was their first lesson. My parents said that almost the entire ward attended the class, and the regular SS class was almost empty. There was incredible interest in the class and they had very open, interesting, and uplifting discussions. The first was was the soft-ball topic "Are Mormon's Christian", but they will have lessons on every essay including polygamy and blacks and the priesthood etc. Has anyone heard of any other wards doing this? Second, starting in January the church is doing away with the Presidents of the Church manuals, and all manuals all together for the 3rd hour block. The idea is to structure the hour much like ward counsel with open discussion and dialogue regarding whatever specific needs and concerns are of interest in the individual wards. The RS presidency, the Elders quorum, and HP presidencies will decide the topics for their quorums based on feedback from their group. In other words, there will be no correlated materials used that hour. Each ward in the church will have unique lessons which focus on the specific needs of each individual ward. As far as I could tell, YM and YW will remain as it is now. After recently defending correlation in another thread, it appears that the church is listening to voices like that of stemelblow, and creating a space for a less correlated and more open forum (at least for the 3rd hour block). All I can say is that I am a little jealous of my parents ward! Can anybody else confirm this change in January, and what are your thoughts about is? 10
ksfisher Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, pogi said: Second, starting in January the church is doing away with the Presidents of the Church manuals, All of the past presidents have been done.
ksfisher Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 4 minutes ago, pogi said: Their first counselor in the bishopric approached the bishop with an idea for a SS class which covered the church essays. The bishop liked the idea and the first counselor is teaching the class. Last Sunday was their first lesson. My parents said that almost the entire ward attended the class, and the regular SS class was almost empty. There was incredible interest in the class and they had very open, interesting, and uplifting discussions. The first was was the soft-ball topic "Are Mormon's Christian", but they will have lessons on every essay including polygamy and blacks and the priesthood etc. Has anyone heard of any other wards doing this? We've discussed various classes that could be taught during the Sunday School hour, but we've always shied away from doing anything more than gospel principles and gospel doctrine because we'd wouldn't want to kill the other classes.
Tacenda Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 7 minutes ago, pogi said: My parents invited us over for dinner last night in Orem. They live in the ward I was talking about in a previous thread with close to 100% activity rate and almost no non-members in their ward boundaries. We had an interesting discussion about a church program their ward is piloting that is supposed to be implemented church wide in January (according to my parents). We also discussed a very interesting Sunday School class that their ward has started. One would expect a ward with such high activity rate in conservative Utah Valley to be super orthodox and conservative in their approach, but it turns out that their ward is currently one of the most progressive that I have ever heard of. First, I will talk about the SS class in their ward. Their first counselor in the bishopric approached the bishop with an idea for a SS class which covered the church essays. The bishop liked the idea and the first counselor is teaching the class. Last Sunday was their first lesson. My parents said that almost the entire ward attended the class, and the regular SS class was almost empty. There was incredible interest in the class and they had very open, interesting, and uplifting discussions. The first was was the soft-ball topic "Are Mormon's Christian", but they will have lessons on every essay including polygamy and blacks and the priesthood etc. Has anyone heard of any other wards doing this? Second, starting in January the church is doing away with the Presidents of the Church manuals, and all manuals all together for the 3rd hour block. The idea is to structure the hour much like ward counsel with open discussion and dialogue regarding whatever specific needs and concerns are of interest in the individual wards. The RS presidency, the Elders quorum, and HP presidencies will decide the topics for their quorums based on feedback from their group. In other words, there will be no correlated materials used that hour. Each ward in the church will have unique lessons which focus on the specific needs of each individual ward. As far as I could tell, YM and YW will remain as it is now. After recently defending correlation in another thread, it appears that the church is listening to voices like that of stemelblow, and creating a space for a less correlated and more open forum (at least for the 3rd hour block). All I can say is that I am a little jealous of my parents ward! Can anybody else confirm this change in January, and what are your thoughts about is? Oh, if this is so, I'm going back to church, I've been inactive for a little over a month or so. I'd like to see RS be able to teach their own lessons. And the SS offering a class on the church essays, sign me up and I'd even sit on the front row!
Calm Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 "church is doing away with the Presidents of the Church manuals" I will a bit surprised if this isn't put off one more year to finish up a 'complete set' though they may want to approach those manuals as "lifetime teachings" or they may feel the need to move towards a different approach is more immediate, any future Teachings manual could easily be issued as a personal study aid I can see this happening next year or the year after as it seems to correlate a great deal with the intent of YM and YW and with how the Teacher's Council is now structured. https://www.lds.org/manual/teaching-in-the-saviors-way/teacher-council-meetings?lang=eng&CID=TSWM1-TCM 1
Calm Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 10 minutes ago, ksfisher said: We've discussed various classes that could be taught during the Sunday School hour, but we've always shied away from doing anything more than gospel principles and gospel doctrine because we'd wouldn't want to kill the other classes. I have heard a lot of fifth Sundays and firesides for this. 1
ksfisher Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 14 minutes ago, pogi said: Second, starting in January the church is doing away with the Presidents of the Church manuals, and all manuals all together for the 3rd hour block. The idea is to structure the hour much like ward counsel with open discussion and dialogue regarding whatever specific needs and concerns are of interest in the individual wards. The RS presidency, the Elders quorum, and HP presidencies will decide the topics for their quorums based on feedback from their group. In other words, there will be no correlated materials used that hour. Each ward in the church will have unique lessons which focus on the specific needs of each individual ward. As far as I could tell, YM and YW will remain as it is now. This also sounds like a lot of work for the leaders of these organizations. In our ward the Relief Society Presidency spends a lot of time on welfare matters (food orders, etc). Now they would need to come prepared to lead a discussion every week with no lesson manual to base the class time on. And as the presidency would be leading these discussion it sounds like it would mean a release for all of the class instructors. That sounds to me like too much of a burden being placed on the organization leaders. 4
ksfisher Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, Calm said: I have heard a lot of fifth Sundays and firesides for this. Yes, that's how we use them. 1
Calm Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 "Now they would need to come prepared to lead a discussion every week with no lesson manual" They could still call teachers to lead the actual discussion and just be choosing the topic to discuss.
Popular Post bluebell Posted June 5, 2017 Popular Post Posted June 5, 2017 it sounds great, but it also sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. Not having a lesson manual will be perfect for some teachers and for others, it will be horrible. This seems like a change based on the abilities of the strongest members and not necessarily the "weakest among us." But, it should be interesting! The Sunday school class on the essays sounds amazing. I think that people are just getting bored with Sunday school after studying the same thing for decades on end. Change is always nice and the essay topics are definitely refreshing. 5
ksfisher Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 5 minutes ago, Calm said: "Now they would need to come prepared to lead a discussion every week with no lesson manual" They could still call teachers to lead the actual discussion and just be choosing the topic to discuss. True. I do agree with Bluebell above though. While some instructors would do just fine, others would flounder.
Duncan Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 Um, we already do this for our 5th sunday, whatever auxillary the Bishopric decides is in charge and they cover whatever topic they want.
Calm Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 If wards are properly holding teachers' councils, this could lead into this style of teaching. One could also point to the YW/YM program as having no manuals, but aids are given in the outlines. This could be an option for adult lessons with perhaps a broader topic list due to a focus on individualuzing based on needs. I would be very shocked if they switched from very high coorelation to very low coorelation with no transitioning. I will also be shocked if there is little to no coorelation. The Church has access to some fantastic educational experts. They also have a history of trying out their teaching and other programs before launching worldwide. I don't see them leaving leaders untrained in lesson construction without numerous resources to help. 1
clarkgoble Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 (edited) 53 minutes ago, pogi said: One would expect a ward with such high activity rate in conservative Utah Valley to be super orthodox and conservative in their approach, but it turns out that their ward is currently one of the most progressive that I have ever heard of. I don't know if "progressive" is the right term, although I've had friends in Provo in wards with very strong liberal social views that were propounded as much as you hear horror stories of social conservative views getting pushed. I think though the Provo/Orem area is perhaps better educated than most wards. That tends to mean they are ironically a little more open to broader readings of scripture. I'm not sure it necessarily entails politically progressive though. Quote Second, starting in January the church is doing away with the Presidents of the Church manuals, and all manuals all together for the 3rd hour block. The idea is to structure the hour much like ward counsel with open discussion and dialogue regarding whatever specific needs and concerns are of interest in the individual wards. The RS presidency, the Elders quorum, and HP presidencies will decide the topics for their quorums based on feedback from their group. In other words, there will be no correlated materials used that hour. That's interesting. They've been moving towards that with the extra Sundays which usually have a conference talk as the lesson. They've also already had mixed meetings every quarter which usually have lessons on a few topics picked by the Stake President and Bishop. This sounds like those are being expanded to being full time. The question would remain about opening exercises since at least in Priesthood that's where a lot of information gets given out on activities and duties. Quote Can anybody else confirm this change in January, and what are your thoughts about is? I've not heard anything about this, although I was sick yesterday. Even if it is going to be rolled out I wouldn't expect to hear much before December. That said, the Church regularly does tests on modifications to its programs. There were tests on a two hour schedule up in northern Utah a few years ago that never got a wider roll out. The danger of this is that ward tend to vary quite a bit in makeup. I'm not sure it'd be wise to have lessons on the essays done church wide if the people teaching it weren't capable of doing so. Again Provo/Orem is a bit unique in the Church and perhaps not wise to extrapolate from. Edited June 5, 2017 by clarkgoble 1
clarkgoble Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 38 minutes ago, Calm said: "Now they would need to come prepared to lead a discussion every week with no lesson manual" They could still call teachers to lead the actual discussion and just be choosing the topic to discuss. If they do this, I suspect it'll be teachers assigned by the Bishop and/or Sunday School Presidency for just those lessons. That's what they do for the current combined PH/RS lessons. Again though, I'm skeptical we'll see big changes for SS worldwide. But the PH/RS change does sound more likely. There are some problems, not the least is how classes are laid out in the typical meetinghouse that do multiple wards. So we'll see how it all works out in practice. 1
pogi Posted June 5, 2017 Author Posted June 5, 2017 4 minutes ago, clarkgoble said: I don't know if "progressive" is the right term... I wasn't really using it in a political sense. I was thinking more in terms of religious openness and allowance for subjects taught and discussed in church. 9 minutes ago, clarkgoble said: That said, the Church regularly does tests on modifications to its programs. There were tests on a two hour schedule up in northern Utah a few years ago that never got a wider roll out. That is true. I wondered the same thing and asked my parents about that. All they could report is what their bishop told them, and that is that it will be rolled out for the entire church in January. So accept that for the hearsay that it is, but I trust my sources and don't think their bishop (who I personally know well) would make such statements without good reason.
clarkgoble Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, pogi said: I wasn't really using it in a political sense. I was thinking more in terms of religious openness and allowance for subjects taught and discussed in church. Ah. OK. That makes sense and I'd probably agree with that. Quote That is true. I wondered the same thing and asked my parents about that. All they could report is what their bishop told them, and that is that it will be rolled out for the entire church in January. So accept that for the hearsay that it is, but I trust my sources and don't think their bishop (who I personally know well) would make such statements without good reason You said it was just the PH/RS block that was being rolled out though, didn't you? Not the changes to SS. Just asking to be sure since lessons on the lds.org essays would be nearly unprecedented but also open to lots of unintentional fallout. Edited June 5, 2017 by clarkgoble
pogi Posted June 5, 2017 Author Posted June 5, 2017 35 minutes ago, Duncan said: Um, we already do this for our 5th sunday, whatever auxillary the Bishopric decides is in charge and they cover whatever topic they want. This is true, but it will be expanded to every week, with more of a ward counsel type structure. I also forgot to mention that on 5th Sundays, the presidencies will pick a conference talk from the last session to discuss. 1
pogi Posted June 5, 2017 Author Posted June 5, 2017 1 minute ago, clarkgoble said: You said it was just the PH/RS block that was being rolled out though, didn't you? Not the changes to SS. (Just asking to be sure) Right.
JLHPROF Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 1 hour ago, pogi said: Second, starting in January the church is doing away with the Presidents of the Church manuals, and all manuals all together for the 3rd hour block. The idea is to structure the hour much like ward counsel with open discussion and dialogue regarding whatever specific needs and concerns are of interest in the individual wards. The RS presidency, the Elders quorum, and HP presidencies will decide the topics for their quorums based on feedback from their group. In other words, there will be no correlated materials used that hour. Each ward in the church will have unique lessons which focus on the specific needs of each individual ward. As far as I could tell, YM and YW will remain as it is now. I predict this lasting about 5 minutes. We all know exactly what will happen if there are no correlated materials to follow. The alternative of course is that this becomes permanent and the presidencies keep such a tight reign on the lessons that they will have LESS content than the correlated manuals did.
rockpond Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 51 minutes ago, bluebell said: it sounds great, but it also sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. Not having a lesson manual will be perfect for some teachers and for others, it will be horrible. This seems like a change based on the abilities of the strongest members and not necessarily the "weakest among us." But, it should be interesting! The Sunday school class on the essays sounds amazing. I think that people are just getting bored with Sunday school after studying the same thing for decades on end. Change is always nice and the essay topics are definitely refreshing. I agree... I love the general idea but I can't imagine having an open forum type structure EVERY Sunday. Now that I've been in the YM presidency for over half a year, I can say that I really love the Come, Follow Me "manuals". I'd love see something like that combined with the open forum/council idea from the OP. 1
clarkgoble Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 4 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: I predict this lasting about 5 minutes. We all know exactly what will happen if there are no correlated materials to follow. If there's not a single teacher I think it could work. There's a lot of variety of topic picking people's strengths. And if you're only doing one lesson it's not as big a demand.
HappyJackWagon Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 I like the idea of returning some control over curriculum to the individual/local units. A rough political analogy would view this as a very conservative principle of states/city/county rights versus federal (the church being federal, stake is state, ward is county, ward auxiliary is city). Returning that control to the units allows leaders to address the needs of the people in that unit as opposed to more of a one-size-fits-all kind of approach. There is a lot to be said for localized authority and power. That said, I can also see how it could be a disaster. This could be leadership roulette on steroids. It could increase the amount of political maneuvering within units based on perceived orthodoxy/heterodoxy. But in all, this would be a welcome move, if for no other reason than to freshen things up a bit. The correlated curriculum has become stale and in many instances isn't meeting the needs of the members. I agree that this will create a little bit more work for leaders BUT this is the fun kind of work. Planning and organizing for the purpose of meeting needs of people rather than programs is the exciting part of the church structure. 1
bluebell Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 13 minutes ago, rockpond said: I agree... I love the general idea but I can't imagine having an open forum type structure EVERY Sunday. Now that I've been in the YM presidency for over half a year, I can say that I really love the Come, Follow Me "manuals". I'd love see something like that combined with the open forum/council idea from the OP. My only complaint with Come Follow Me is how the same exact manual is used for sunday school. I've had kids who have had the same lesson, watched the same movies, twice on a sunday and that would be hard for an adult, let alone a kid who might be struggling with wanting to be there anyway. 3
Tacenda Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 16 minutes ago, clarkgoble said: If there's not a single teacher I think it could work. There's a lot of variety of topic picking people's strengths. And if you're only doing one lesson it's not as big a demand. The manuals are so out of date in Primary etc. I'm thinking they are as well in SS but I could be wrong. Maybe the church will do something like they are for the youth. I know my husband doesn't use his Primary manual much for his lesson, just goes by the main topic. Maybe it will be something along those lines. But I hope it's something that will go forward for sure!
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