Interesting changes for 3rd hour block in 2018

[clarkgoble]

7 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

The manuals are so out of date in Primary etc. I'm thinking they are as well in SS but I could be wrong. Maybe the church will do something like they are for the youth. I know my husband doesn't use his Primary manual much for his lesson, just goes by the main topic. Maybe it will be something along those lines. But I hope it's something that will go forward for sure!

Yeah, the primary manuals also aren't very good. They often really assume the kids are far more advanced cognitively than they are. A rewrite that makes better use of the capabilities of the kids is important. Particularly for people without a lot of experience with kids Primary can be very overwhelming. The manuals make that worse not better -- particularly for the Sunbeams and Stars.

[juliann]

I hope your bishop is correct, Pogi! I'm afraid to get too excited because of all the excitement awhile back that the 3 hr block was going to be modified and then that people would be allowed to marry civily before a temple sealing. Neither happened. 

They have to do something about the RS lessons, though. There is no justification for only giving women lessons about elite men, usually with nary a woman in sight beyond a brief tip of the hat to a wife. One of the things I wanted in our RS was to leave a week open to allow different women to teach. We have pulled in several now. If we expect women to become more visible we have to start giving those who normally sit in the back more opportunity. 

I can see a more open system working if the initial lessons were carefully chosen and random teachers who could handle more openness selected to get it off the ground. It would be ward roulette, of course, but that is always a given. I have found it only takes one strong and persistent voice to make changes if that voice is trusted and is fluent in Mormonspeak :-)

[JLHPROF]

22 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

If there's not a single teacher I think it could work. There's a lot of variety of topic picking people's strengths. And if you're only doing one lesson it's not as big a demand.

Oh, we all have that one member who would eventually get a turn...
Or we ARE that one member.

My lesson today is on XYZ.  Now, hold on while I pull out the JSP vol 2, JD 16, TPJS, Nibley's Temple and Cosmos, and just for kicks, a little Key to the Science of Theology.

[bluebell]

4 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

Yeah, the primary manuals also aren't very good. They often really assume the kids are far more advanced cognitively than they are. A rewrite that makes better use of the capabilities of the kids is important. Particularly for people without a lot of experience with kids Primary can be very overwhelming. The manuals make that worse not better -- particularly for the Sunbeams and Stars.

Some of the manuals are laughable.  My parents subbed for Sunbeams two weeks ago and the title of their lesson was "I am thankful for my ears."  That was it.  40 minutes with 3 and 4 year olds and that was all the manual had to offer.  

[halconero]

Cautiously optimistic.

Optimistic because when planned well, our 1st Sunday Presidency lessons are awesome (Pro-tip: Form your chairs into a circle. I don't know the psychology behind it, but it makes people way more likely to speak up and foster a discussion rather than a lecture). Cautious because I could see Presidencies running out of discussion topics quickly, or lacking direction not taking sufficient initiative necessary to guide a discussion every Sunday. 

[stemelbow]

21 minutes ago, bluebell said:

My only complaint with Come Follow Me is how the same exact manual is used for sunday school.  I've had kids who have had the same lesson, watched the same movies, twice on a sunday and that would be hard for an adult, let alone a kid who might be struggling with wanting to be there anyway.

Yep that stinks.  I remember a couple of times getting videos ready only to hear the kids sya they just saw them.  But, continuing the discussion from YMs or YWs was nice, in some cases. 

[stemelbow]

You almost make me want to move to Orem. 

[clarkgoble]

3 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Some of the manuals are laughable.  My parents subbed for Sunbeams two weeks ago and the title of their lesson was "I am thankful for my ears."  That was it.  40 minutes with 3 and 4 year olds and that was all the manual had to offer.  

Yeah. I subbed for Sunbeams and it was bad. Requires a lot of work on the teacher's part to do well. Again, very stressful for people not used to little kids. The Nursery manual sucks too. Although by and large everyone just ignores it and does their own thing. 

[CV75]

2 hours ago, pogi said:

Second, starting in January the church is doing away with the Presidents of the Church manuals, and all manuals all together for the 3rd hour block.  The idea is to structure the hour much like ward counsel with open discussion and dialogue regarding whatever specific needs and concerns are of interest in the individual wards.  The RS presidency, the Elders quorum, and HP presidencies will decide the topics for their quorums based on feedback from their group.  In other words, there will be no correlated materials used that hour.  Each ward in the church will have unique lessons which focus on the specific needs of each individual ward.  As far as I could tell, YM and YW will remain as it is now. 

This is in line with the heavy training this year on Teaching in the Savior's Way, which facilitates a council approach to learning. Correlation is only the product of a council process, and this new approach brings that to the ward level. Hopefully folks are reading their Ensign! https://www.lds.org/ensign/2017/06/young-adults/self-reliance-and-gospel-learning?lang=eng

[clarkgoble]

In our ward they've been pulling teachers out once a month to meet in the high council room and discuss practical issues in teaching. Unfortunately I was sick yesterday and missed it.

[hagoth7]

3 hours ago, ksfisher said:

That sounds to me like too much of a burden being placed on the organization leaders. 

Sounds instead...that by actually creating a sounding board and thoughtful responses and group discussions for people's concerns and interests, that they will be spending less time putting out fires and trying to reactivate people, and putting that time to better use keeping people engaged in the things that truly matter to *them*. Making the church on the ward level much more rubber-hits-the-road relevant. A responsive/nimble organization. Hard to compete with a model like that. 

Facilitating a group discussion where you already understand the need/concern/objective, in a group of people led individually and collectively by the spirit, would likely mean *less* lesson preparation time, not more.

Edited June 5, 2017 by hagoth7

[hagoth7]

1 hour ago, clarkgoble said:

Yeah. I subbed for Sunbeams and it was bad. Requires a lot of work on the teacher's part to do well. Again, very stressful for people not used to little kids. The Nursery manual sucks too. Although by and large everyone just ignores it and does their own thing. 

Subbed last week for Sunbeams. Topic was being thankful for our eyes. 

I didn't have much of a role to play there, which was about right. It was a great experience.

Edited June 5, 2017 by hagoth7

[Jeanne]

3 hours ago, pogi said:

My parents invited us over for dinner last night in Orem.  They live in the ward I was talking about in a previous thread with close to 100% activity rate and almost no non-members in their ward boundaries.  We had an interesting discussion about a church program their ward is piloting that is supposed to be implemented church wide in January (according to my parents).  We also discussed a very interesting Sunday School class that their ward has started.  

One would expect a ward with such high activity rate in conservative Utah Valley to be super orthodox and conservative in their approach, but it turns out that their ward is currently one of the most progressive that I have ever heard of.  First, I will talk about the SS class in their ward.  Their first counselor in the bishopric approached the bishop with an idea for a SS class which covered the church essays.  The bishop liked the idea and the first counselor is teaching the class.  Last Sunday was their first lesson.  My parents said that almost the entire ward attended the class, and the regular SS class was almost empty.  There was incredible interest in the class and they had very open, interesting, and uplifting discussions.  The first was was the soft-ball topic "Are Mormon's Christian", but they will have lessons on every essay including polygamy and blacks and the priesthood etc. Has anyone heard of any other wards doing this?

Second, starting in January the church is doing away with the Presidents of the Church manuals, and all manuals all together for the 3rd hour block.  The idea is to structure the hour much like ward counsel with open discussion and dialogue regarding whatever specific needs and concerns are of interest in the individual wards.  The RS presidency, the Elders quorum, and HP presidencies will decide the topics for their quorums based on feedback from their group.  In other words, there will be no correlated materials used that hour.  Each ward in the church will have unique lessons which focus on the specific needs of each individual ward.  As far as I could tell, YM and YW will remain as it is now.  

After recently defending correlation in another thread, it appears that the church is listening to voices like that of stemelblow, and creating a space for a less correlated and more open forum (at least for the 3rd hour block).  

All I can say is that I am a little jealous of my parents ward!  Can anybody else confirm this change in January, and what are your thoughts about is?

Oh...wow...I love this.  I love this for all mormons..yeah..!  I believe that even aside from the discussions, it will bring the ward even closer together somehow..because they will be communicating and participating.  How I wish I would have had something like this!!

[Jeanne]

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Oh, if this is so, I'm going back to church, I've been inactive for a little over a month or so. I'd like to see RS be able to teach their own lessons. And the SS offering a class on the church essays, sign me up and I'd even sit on the front row!

yea,,,to have a voice in all organizations is a wonderful thing!!

[Jeanne]

2 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I like the idea of returning some control over curriculum to the individual/local units. A rough political analogy would view this as a very conservative principle of states/city/county rights versus federal (the church being federal, stake is state, ward is county, ward auxiliary is city). Returning that control to the units allows leaders to address the needs of the people in that unit as opposed to more of a one-size-fits-all kind of approach. There is a lot to be said for localized authority and power.

That said, I can also see how it could be a disaster. This could be leadership roulette on steroids. It could increase the amount of political maneuvering within units based on perceived orthodoxy/heterodoxy. But in all, this would be a welcome move, if for no other reason than to freshen things up a bit. The correlated curriculum has become stale and in many instances isn't meeting the needs of the members.

I agree that this will create a little bit more work for leaders BUT this is the fun kind of work. Planning and organizing for the purpose of meeting needs of people rather than programs is the exciting part of the church structure.

Narrow this down to teachers who love to teach..and learn..it could be a wonderful thing.  Perhaps a stake could hold classes on the essays so that it meets a comfort level for all teachers.  Heck, in my old ward..in the Gospel Doctrine class..a discussion could go forever..and the people teach and fortify each other..now they have permission to do so.

[hagoth7]

2 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I like the idea of returning some control over curriculum to the individual/local units. A rough political analogy would view this as a very conservative principle of states/city/county rights versus federal (the church being federal, stake is state, ward is county, ward auxiliary is city). Returning that control to the units allows leaders to address the needs of the people in that unit as opposed to more of a one-size-fits-all kind of approach. There is a lot to be said for localized authority and power.

That said, I can also see how it could be a disaster.

I see it instead not only as a means to improve things as things currently stand, but as a prophetic step to prepare a people for what others will deem to be supposed disaster....when nations give way, and zion will govern itself in its various locations...and will arise....a true light amid encircling gloom.

Edited June 5, 2017 by hagoth7

[clarkgoble]

26 minutes ago, hagoth7 said:

Subbed last week for Sunbeams. Topic was being thankful for our eyes. 

I didn't have much of a role to play there, which was about right. It was a great experience.

I should note that by bad I meant the manuals not the teaching experience. Since I have a new Sunbeam and a little girl who is a Star I appreciate them a great deal. If you're comfortable with kids that age it's a great experience.  I just glanced through the manual and did my own thing. But I've seen newly married guys get thrown into those callings who really struggle. Heck I was pretty clueless when I was called to nursery having a brother only a few years younger than I and both of us getting married fairly late. Fortunately my wife was in there with me. Had I been called without someone who knew what they were doing I'd probably be freaking out.

[JulieM]

4 hours ago, pogi said:

My parents invited us over for dinner last night in Orem.  They live in the ward I was talking about in a previous thread with close to 100% activity rate and almost no non-members in their ward boundaries.  We had an interesting discussion about a church program their ward is piloting that is supposed to be implemented church wide in January (according to my parents). 

How long have they been piloting this new  program in your parent's ward?  Did they say how the lessons have been for RS and Priesthood meeting so far?

[pogi]

9 minutes ago, JulieM said:

How long have they been piloting this new  program in your parent's ward?  Did they say how the lessons have been for RS and Priesthood meeting so far?

I know that the gospel topics essays class only started last week, but I am not sure about the other program.  We mostly discussed the gospel topics essays class, as I was was really curious to see how those topics would go over in a SS setting, and impressed that the bishop would approve of such a course.  I will see if I can get a little more info from my parents on the other program and report back. 

[hagoth7]

7 hours ago, clarkgoble said:

I should note that by bad I meant the manuals not the teaching experience.

Wouldn't know anything about those manuals. Haven't glanced at one in quite some time. Was just invited to sit in while the sister normally assigned attended RS instruction with the bishop.

7 hours ago, clarkgoble said:

If you're comfortable with kids that age it's a great experience.  I just glanced through the manual and did my own thing. But I've seen newly married guys get thrown into those callings who really struggle.

Sunbeams...my 2nd-favorite calling. My hands-down favorite calling was nursery....by far the most profound experience out of decades of church service. 

And I know what you mean about newly married. Back when newly married in the same ward with a bishop who was a close relative, I was just dumb enough to tell him that the one ward calling I wouldn't be able to handle was nursery, (because it would have been too painful).

...Which is of course precisely where I was called a few days later...

...and which ended up being a needed source of healing.

Bishops can sure be annoying, helpful/guided.  

Edited June 6, 2017 by hagoth7

[Lemuel]

3 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

I predict this lasting about 5 minutes.
We all know exactly what will happen if there are no correlated materials to follow.

The alternative of course is that this becomes permanent and the presidencies keep such a tight reign on the lessons that they will have LESS content than the correlated manuals did.

How did the church survive for 140 years before correlation?

[Lemuel]

3 hours ago, rockpond said:

I agree... I love the general idea but I can't imagine having an open forum type structure EVERY Sunday.

 

 

Moroni could imagine it:

Moroni 6:9 And their meetings were conducted by the church after the manner of the workings of the Spirit, and by the power of the Holy Ghost; for as the power of the Holy Ghost led them whether to preach, or to exhort, or to pray, or to supplicate, or to sing, even so it was done.

[JulieM]

17 minutes ago, pogi said:

I know that the gospel topics essays class only started last week, but I am not sure about the other program.  We mostly discussed the gospel topics essays class, as I was was really curious to see how those topics would go over in a SS setting, and impressed that the bishop would approve of such a course.  I will see if I can get a little more info from my parents on the other program and report back. 

Thanks pogi...

I'm the counselor in our RS presidency over the lessons taught and I'm really wondering how this would be implemented.  I think it could be really great actually but I can also see potential issues.

Right now we have instructors called for each week (other than the 1st Sunday when we rotate teaching within the presidency).

I would love to hear more details regarding how it's done now in your parent's ward, so thanks again!

[Calm]

3 hours ago, clarkgoble said:

Yeah, the primary manuals also aren't very good. They often really assume the kids are far more advanced cognitively than they are. A rewrite that makes better use of the capabilities of the kids is important. Particularly for people without a lot of experience with kids Primary can be very overwhelming. The manuals make that worse not better -- particularly for the Sunbeams and Stars.

It would be better to use manuals that were divided into years rather than scripture topics like they were prior to this set.  I get why they want families to be on the same page...images of gospel discussions around the dinner table or family home evenings where everyone can have something to say about what they were taught in the OT, but as you say Primary can be very overwhelming even if you have your own kids and the lessons may be in the same book, but often aren't about the same subject or scripture people.  The whole idea is a loving ideal, but I suspect it rarely happens and the parents that manage it, use it to direct and teach are probably grounded enough in the scriptures and doctrine already that they could respond to whatever topic/story was taught.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Calm

[Calm]

15 minutes ago, Lemuel said:

How did the church survive for 140 years before correlation?

With a massive amount of folklore being taught...