Church will no longer participate in Varsity Scouts/Venturing

[bsjkki]

The church will no longer run varsity/venturing scouts programs for boys 14-18. Does this mean no scouts for teachers and priests or is it not a big change? Most scouts don't have their Eagle that young. http://www.sltrib.com/news/5278985-155/mormon-church-takes-steps-away-from

is this the beginning of the end for church and scouting?

[Vanguard]

Yes, I think it is. My hat's off to any older young man who gets his Eagle (I got mine just before I hit 18!) but we have pulled my 16 yros son out of the Scouting program simply because there is too much going on in his life (i.e., Seminary, standard extra-curricular Church activities, SCHOOL, his IT internship at school, family life, etc., etc.) It was a tough decision to make though we believed for the best. I think something is in the wind regards to the viability of the Scouting program within the Church and time will eventually tell...

[bsjkki]

I was surprised this was said by church officials. From the Tribune, 

"Mormon officials say this latest move will help bridge the gap between what the faith spend on its Young Men program (including Scouting) and its Young Women offerings.

"This new program brings the spending into balance for youth ages 14 through 18," the church stated. "This will continue to be a factor in the ongoing exploration and creation of a worldwide youth program."

[ksfisher]

7 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

The church will no longer run varsity/venturing scouts programs for boys 14-18. Does this mean no scouts for teachers and priests or is it not a big change? Most scouts don't have their Eagle that young. http://www.sltrib.com/news/5278985-155/mormon-church-takes-steps-away-from

is this the beginning of the end for church and scouting?

No ward that I've ever lived in has had a varsity or venture scout program.  Both of my sons have continued to participate in scouting until they finished high school.  

[hoo rider]

I agree.  I'll be surprised if scouting officially exists in the church 10 years from now.

The Q&A on mormon newsroom does say that young men 14-18 can still be registered with the troop and will be supported working towards eagle.  However, with no emphasis on scouting from leaders for the 14-18 year olds, only the boys that have strong push from family or really want it themselves will get their eagle.  

[JAHS]

10 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

The church will no longer run varsity/venturing scouts programs for boys 14-18. Does this mean no scouts for teachers and priests or is it not a big change? Most scouts don't have their Eagle that young. http://www.sltrib.com/news/5278985-155/mormon-church-takes-steps-away-from

is this the beginning of the end for church and scouting?

"Can young men in these age groups continue to earn the Eagle Scout award?

Yes. Young men who desire to continue toward the rank of Eagle will be registered, supported and encouraged. It is important to remember that only those young men who are properly registered are eligible to be awarded merit badges and rank advancements."

Questions and Answers about Changes to the Young Men Program

[bsjkki]

12 minutes ago, JAHS said:

"Can young men in these age groups continue to earn the Eagle Scout award?

Yes. Young men who desire to continue toward the rank of Eagle will be registered, supported and encouraged. It is important to remember that only those young men who are properly registered are eligible to be awarded merit badges and rank advancements."

Questions and Answers about Changes to the Young Men Program

It says they can still work towards their Eagle but I don't think there will be scouting activities for activity nights after they turn 14. 

• Instead, Young Men activities will focus on spiritual, social, physical and intellectual goals outlined by the Church. These activities are designed to be fun and meaningful and provide opportunities for personal growth and development.

Edited May 11, 2017 by bsjkki

[hope_for_things]

10 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

I was surprised this was said by church officials. From the Tribune, 

"Mormon officials say this latest move will help bridge the gap between what the faith spend on its Young Men program (including Scouting) and its Young Women offerings.

"This new program brings the spending into balance for youth ages 14 through 18," the church stated. "This will continue to be a factor in the ongoing exploration and creation of a worldwide youth program."

I hope they will finally try to address the disparity of spending between girls and boys.  I'm skeptical but hopeful that this will happen.  Its interesting that they listed this as an issue.  

My suspicion is that the real issues that lead to this decision are related to LGBT policies and practices, but that the PR department didn't want to discuss those.  

[Judd]

[rockpond]

I was glad to see the Church state that they are doing this to address the inequity between the girls and boys.  But, if that's the case, it would seem that we may need to back out of Cub and Boy Scouts since it is at those ages that the greatest inequities exist. 

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/questions-answers-changes-young-men-program

 

[rongo]

2 minutes ago, rockpond said:

I was glad to see the Church state that they are doing this to address the inequity between the girls and boys.  But, if that's the case, it would seem that we may need to back out of Cub and Boy Scouts since it is at those ages that the greatest inequities exist. 

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/questions-answers-changes-young-men-program

Yes, but not in the way you think.

Activity days and Beehives is way better than Cub Scouts, 11 year-old Scouts, and Boy Scouts.  

Now, maybe the boys can have a good church activity program instead of the (cough, cough) "activity arm" of the Aaronic priesthood . . .

[bsjkki]

4 minutes ago, rockpond said:

I was glad to see the Church state that they are doing this to address the inequity between the girls and boys.  But, if that's the case, it would seem that we may need to back out of Cub and Boy Scouts since it is at those ages that the greatest inequities exist. 

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/questions-answers-changes-young-men-program

 

So true...

[hope_for_things]

1 minute ago, rongo said:

Yes, but not in the way you think.

Activity days and Beehives is way better than Cub Scouts, 11 year-old Scouts, and Boy Scouts.  

Now, maybe the boys can have a good church activity program instead of the (cough, cough) "activity arm" of the Aaronic priesthood . . .

They weren't financially equal, that's the problem.  If activity days were better my guess is that this is due to the way these activities are organized.  The money should be fairly equalized though.  

[bsjkki]

1 minute ago, hope_for_things said:

They weren't financially equal, that's the problem.  If activity days were better my guess is that this is due to the way these activities are organized.  The money should be fairly equalized though.  

Scouting is expensive but the quality of programs is up to local leaders. The prohibition against activity days meeting more than twice a month has been an issue. Even young girls have asked why they don't get to meet as often as their brothers.  Currently we have strong activity leaders and cub leaders but the cubs get twice as much money and 3 days of camp in the summer. 

[stemelbow]

this seems to have a lot to do with money.

"In most congregations in the United States and Canada, young men ages 14–18 are not being served well by the Varsity or Venturing programs, which have historically been difficult to implement within the Church."

and

"The Church will continue to make the same payment to the BSA for registration of its young men through 2018, so there should be a minimal financial impact to Scouting."

This was a decision to cut spending without negatively effecting members.    

Anyway, you have to step back and see where money is going and if it's worth it from time to time.  I doubt the varsity and venturing programs have ever really been all that impactful on LDS boys.  Honestly, I've never seen them operating in any ward I've been in, even though I've heard from others where they did participate in varsity and venture scouts.  Seems like a prudent move.  Its interesting they feel like they have to continue to give the BSA money for these programs for the next 18 months (12 months longer than the Church will be involved in the programs). 

[Tacenda]

19 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

I hope they will finally try to address the disparity of spending between girls and boys.  I'm skeptical but hopeful that this will happen.  Its interesting that they listed this as an issue.  

My suspicion is that the real issues that lead to this decision are related to LGBT policies and practices, but that the PR department didn't want to discuss those.  

Or maybe the latest on transgendered scouts.

[rockpond]

9 minutes ago, rongo said:

Yes, but not in the way you think.

Activity days and Beehives is way better than Cub Scouts, 11 year-old Scouts, and Boy Scouts.  

Now, maybe the boys can have a good church activity program instead of the (cough, cough) "activity arm" of the Aaronic priesthood . . .

In what ways do you believe that Activity Days and Beehives are better than Cubs, EYO, and Boy Scouts?

In my ward, the budget for Cubs is generally 500% to 600% larger than the budget for Act. Days.

Scouts meet 4-5 times per month plus campouts, service projects, etc.  Activity Days is restricted (as a matter of policy) to meet no more than 2 hours per month.

Activity Days isn't really a formal program.  There are some loose suggestions in the handbook.  Half of the Activity Days leaders in my ward are of the firm belief that they are just supposed to bring the girls together on those two afternoons each month for a big "playdate".

[Maidservant]

I think that one major reason Scouting has NOT gone away before now is because President Monson has a great love for it.   After him, let's see.

[bsjkki]

15 minutes ago, rockpond said:

In what ways do you believe that Activity Days and Beehives are better than Cubs, EYO, and Boy Scouts?

In my ward, the budget for Cubs is generally 500% to 600% larger than the budget for Act. Days.

Scouts meet 4-5 times per month plus campouts, service projects, etc.  Activity Days is restricted (as a matter of policy) to meet no more than 2 hours per month.

Activity Days isn't really a formal program.  There are some loose suggestions in the handbook.  Half of the Activity Days leaders in my ward are of the firm belief that they are just supposed to bring the girls together on those two afternoons each month for a big "playdate".

Well, one of its purposes is to foster friendships but yes, with such a loose structure, it depends on the strength and opinion of its leaders on if there is purpose to the activities or if it's just a fun craft night.

Edited May 11, 2017 by bsjkki

[RevTestament]

In a sense the scouting program didn't really do that much for our young men - except provide a framework to work within which gives recognition for achievement. The Church can do that on its own, and certainly has the experience to be able to build a similar program, and perhaps make it better. One loss may be the use of scouting facilities and campgrounds, but in my experience the Church doesn't really use those much in Utah. Fees saved could then be applied to the use of more traditional state and federal camp areas and grounds. While this may mark the beginning of a sad day for BSA, I believe it could mark the beginning of a new day for our church youth with perhaps more combined activities as well, which I believe could be a very healthy thing.

[bsjkki]

I hope the new program for young men has structure, goals and clear objectives and activity guidelines so young men's doesn't turn into basketball night. I feel the young women's program needs more structure.

[HappyJackWagon]

29 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Scouting is expensive but the quality of programs is up to local leaders. The prohibition against activity days meeting more than twice a month has been an issue. Even young girls have asked why they don't get to meet as often as their brothers.  Currently we have strong activity leaders and cub leaders but the cubs get twice as much money and 3 days of camp in the summer. 

When I was bishop we reduced cub scouts to 2 weeks per month so that it would be equal to the number of activities the girls had. You would have thought I had shot every cub scout's dog or something. Actually it was the parents who were upset about it.

With the caviat included by the church that older boys will be able to continue with scouting I can tell you exactly how this will work in my ward with our current leadership. They will continue to register every boy 8-18 in scouts regardless of whether they want to be in scouting or not. They will change the names of the venturing/explorer groups but still focus on scouting activities 3 weeks per month. For the die hards, there will be many easy work arounds to keep scouting just as big as it has always been...at least for now.

[HappyJackWagon]

6 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

I hope the new program for young men has structure, goals and clear objectives and activity guidelines so young men's doesn't turn into basketball night. I feel the young women's program needs more structure.

Don't knock basketball night. Growing up we had way more participation and missionary work / baptisms from basketball night than we ever had from scouting.

[hope_for_things]

29 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Or maybe the latest on transgendered scouts.

Yes, thats part of it I'm sure.  Unfortunately....

[rockpond]

1 minute ago, HappyJackWagon said:

When I was bishop we reduced cub scouts to 2 weeks per month so that it would be equal to the number of activities the girls had. You would have thought I had shot every cub scout's dog or something. Actually it was the parents who were upset about it.

I don't disagree with your decision but I think the problem is that it would be difficult to get the boys through all the requirements with only twice monthly meetings.

It's a similar issue with funding... It costs a lot to run a full cub scout program.  As a bishop's counselor, I knew that I couldn't reduce the budget for the cubs, so I invited the activity days leaders to increase their budget to try getting closer to parity.  The activity days leaders bought shirts for the girls, they organized some outings, etc... their budget was still a fraction of cubs.