And the Fastest Growing Church is...Ummm Nope Not That One.

[bluebell]

She got back to me and said that she has never heard anyone in her religion teach or profess to believe in different degrees of glory or different heavens etc.  She said she's going to look into it more and get back to me though so more info may be coming.          

[thesometimesaint]

1 hour ago, Storm Rider said:

That is just a game of words.  There is most definitely Sharia law and it is used in most Muslim nations.  I speak from living in the Middle East and having to gain approaval of business practices from an Imam - to demonstrate that it met Sharia law.

Ideas about what actually is Sharia Law vary from country to country. Indonesia has the largest Muslim population on earth yet is decidedly secular in its laws. Turkey is secular though not as much as the US. 

[cinepro]

I think the most amazing thing is how quickly LDS can go from the "stone rolling forth" - "the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly and independent" mentality where we were taking over the world to the "prophesied winnowing" - "wheat from the chaff" mentality of a smaller, persecuted membership.

Amazing, but not surprising.

Edited March 7, 2017 by cinepro

[RevTestament]

1 minute ago, cinepro said:

I think the most amazing thing is how quickly LDS can go from the "stone rolling forth" - "the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly and independent" mentality where we were taking over the world to the "prophesied winnowing" - "wheat from the chaff" mentality of a smaller, persecuted membership.

Amazing, but not surprising.

Well, being that the stone without hands came out of the mountain, not too terribly surprising to say the least.

[bluebell]

3 minutes ago, cinepro said:

I think the most amazing thing is how quickly LDS can go from the "stone rolling forth" - "the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly and independent" mentality where we were taking over the world to the "prophesied winnowing" - "wheat from the chaff" mentality of a smaller, persecuted membership.

Amazing, but not surprising.

I vote for both mentalities existing together (since they both should).  

[bcuzbcuz]

3 hours ago, RevTestament said:

I wish I was wrong. I don't know if you have your head in the PC sand or what, but your country of Sweden will be first.

Here is some footage from Sweden which I characterize as worse than the worst American ghetto

It seems Sweden did not learn the lesson of Christian Lebanon. Christian you say? Yeah, before the Muslims came in it was an open, prosperous Christian country - something like Sweden was.

 

You truly know nothing.

I suggest you turn off your computer and read a decent book. Although your posts are amusing, I must admit.

[RevTestament]

9 minutes ago, bcuzbcuz said:

You truly know nothing.

I suggest you turn off your computer and read a decent book. Although your posts are amusing, I must admit.

Your blind denials don't do anything against the math. Do you deny the native Swedish fertility rate is low? Perhaps you are smarter than the laws of math. You can't outrun the math unless you Swedes immediately all start having 2+ children. That is probably why the EU brought in the Muslim immigrants in the first place - to replace you. Within easily 40 years Sweden will be at least 50% Muslim. I believe within 30 years. They will be in your government, and in your law enforcement like they are in Egypt. And if they want Sharia law, that is what you will live under. Which means you will die unless you pay the Jizyah. But let's not worry about that now....we can change them! Did that work in Iraq?

And if you are going to say I don't know what Sharia is I will be glad to discuss that with you since I have become somewhat of an expert (although it would need to be on another forum) - perhaps it may be an eye-opening experience for you. You do know what happens to the frog that stays in the pot too long don't you?

[Buckeye]

2 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Have they been losing members to apostasy?  I had no idea.  I though polygamist numbers were holding pretty steady.

But besides that the point stands.  The true gospel will never be the most popular, have the most members, nor should it.
If we ever become the most popular it will unavoidably be because we have lost the truth.
 

 

I'm no expert, but the news reports I've read suggest that a much higher percentage of FLDS leave their fold than do LDS. If we want to get cute, I'd bet that mainstream protestants are losing higher numbers than LDS. So maybe their faith is more true.

Also, if the true church can't be the most popular, then what the heck was happening in the America's for 200 years after Christ's visit? I thought everyone was converted. Add to that many church leaders have opined that the celestial kingdom will be the most populous. How can that be if the true church must be in the minority?

 

[JLHPROF]

1 minute ago, Buckeye said:

I'm no expert, but the news reports I've read suggest that a much higher percentage of FLDS leave their fold than do LDS. If we want to get cute, I'd bet that mainstream protestants are losing higher numbers than LDS. So maybe their faith is more true.

Also, if the true church can't be the most popular, then what the heck was happening in the America's for 200 years after Christ's visit? I thought everyone was converted. Add to that many church leaders have opined that the celestial kingdom will be the most populous. How can that be if the true church must be in the minority?

 

I'm just going off prophecy.  When Christ returns it is to be to a very select faithful few (chosen out of the Church according to the quotes I provided).

I have said before that the idea of converting a large majority is not accurate.  The gospel is given.  Only a few will accept.  The gospel doesn't get adjusted to get more acceptance and if it did it wouldn't be the gospel anymore.

[Calm]

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/01/06/a-new-estimate-of-the-u-s-muslim-population/

"Pew Research Center estimates that there were about 3.3 million Muslims of all ages living in the United States in 2015. This means that Muslims made up about 1% of the total U.S. population (about 322 million people in 2015), and we estimate that that share will double by 2050."

"Among Muslim residents of Sweden, as of 2014, 110,000 are registered as member of, or regularly served by, a muslim faith community.[1] Out of the roughly 500,000 Swedish residents with roots in countries and areas dominated by Muslims, approximately one third practice Islam to some extent.[2][3] Others are cultural Muslims, apostates or converts to other religions. Other sources set the figure at around 6% (almost 600 000) of the total Swedish population.[4]...

Pew Research Center estimates the number of Muslims in Sweden at 451,000 (or 4.9% of the total population) for the year 2010. They project this to increase to 993,000 (or 9.9% of the total population) by the year 2030."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Sweden

"recent decades, the Muslim share of the population throughout Europe grew about 1 percentage point a decade, from 4% in 1990 to 6% in 2010. This pattern is expected to continue through 2030, when Muslims are projected to make up 8% of Europe’s population."

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/19/5-facts-about-the-muslim-population-in-europe/

Edited March 7, 2017 by Calm

[Buckeye]

11 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

I'm just going off prophecy.  When Christ returns it is to be to a very select faithful few (chosen out of the Church according to the quotes I provided).

I have said before that the idea of converting a large majority is not accurate.  The gospel is given.  Only a few will accept.  The gospel doesn't get adjusted to get more acceptance and if it did it wouldn't be the gospel anymore.

I agree that the church is prophesied to be small. And I'm not arguing that size (or popularity) is an indicator of truthfulness. (At least for the here and now ... eternities may be different) But when someone puts forth an argument for the church's truthfulness based on a factual claim of uniqueness (e.g., growing the fastest, most persecuted, longest lifespans, highest marriage rates, etc.) than I tend to push back when there is no proof offered for the claim. The reality is that we're not really that different from other churches by any measurable metric. Collectively speaking, we're still very much "in the world" and "of the world".

[Calm]

http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/

"

The religious profile of the world is rapidly changing, driven primarily by differences in fertility rates and the size of youth populations among the world’s major religions, as well as by people switching faiths. Over the next four decades, Christians will remain the largest religious group, but Islam will grow faster than any other major religion. If current trends continue, by 2050 …

The number of Muslims will nearly equal the number of Christians around the world.

Atheists, agnostics and other people who do not affiliate with any religion – though increasing in countries such as the United States and France – will make up a declining share of the world’s total population.

The global Buddhist population will be about the same size it was in 2010, while the Hindu and Jewish populations will be larger than they are today.

In Europe, Muslims will make up 10% of the overall population.

India will retain a Hindu majority but also will have the largest Muslim population of any country in the world, surpassing Indonesia.

In the United States, Christians will decline from more than three-quarters of the population in 2010 to two-thirds in 2050, and Judaism will no longer be the largest non-Christian religion. Muslims will be more numerous in the U.S. than people who identify as Jewish on the basis of religion.

Four out of every 10 Christians in the world will live in sub-Saharan Africa."

[Meadowchik]

4 hours ago, RevTestament said:

Give me one country where Muslims have "acclimated" to western public life. You don't understand Shariah law. Perhaps you don't realize that under Obama, Muslims got Florida to allow women to take their Driver's License picture with their full burkahs on. It is absurd. We are supposed to ID women from their eyes only?  BTW driving is a privilege - not a civil right. The Saudis don't let their women drive.

Now before you go saying I am hate mongering, I will say that Muslims can be very sweet people. Most Muslims in the United States are educated, and affluent members of society. And you will find that most of these are from India or other more moderate Muslim areas. My problem is with Islam. The problem I see is that we were allowing in under Obama Muslims from countries that tried to live Shariah Law. Shariah Law is diametrically opposed to the US constitution. Immigrants who do not recognize constitutional rights for all citizens have no business coming to the United States and trying to become citizens. It has nothing to do with racism, bigotry, etc. It has to do with preserving civil rights in this country.

Turkey is not Sharia and it is majority Muslim. It's not the only one such.

The Muslims I know are acclimating here in France. One family is our good friends who work for us. Another is the school bus driver. His wife is a cashier and she does not cover her head at work, btw.  Another owns a kebab shop down the street serving mostly non-Muslims employing non-Muslims.

Don't tell me not to believe my eyes.

Btw religion is not the biggest predictor of fertility rates. The biggest predictor of high fertility is high infant mortality.

This should tell you something about demographic trends.This should tell you that Islam is only as exclusively strong as it can assure self-interest and therefore safety. Otherwise, people will change their lifestyles as their children and babies are safer. And as they become more educated and economicly mobile they will have less children.

We're all much more alike than you think. Most people want to have families, be with them and raise their children. That's it.

So please don't give into the wedge-building propaganda, which is dangerous among non-Muslims and Muslims alike.

Please becpart of the solution, which is to treat people like human beings, not automatic enemies.

Edited March 7, 2017 by Meadowchik

[Jeanne]

8 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

Turkey is not Sharia and it is majority Muslim. It's not the only one such.

The Muslims I know are acclimating here in France. One family is our good friends who work for us. Another is the school bus driver. His wife is a cashier and she does not cover her head at work, btw.  Another owns a kebab shop down the street serving mostly non-Muslims employing non-Muslims.

Don't tell me not to believe my eyes.

Btw religion is not the biggest predictor of fertility rates. The biggest predictor of high fertility is high infant mortality.

This should tell you something about demographic trends.This should tell you that Islam is only as exclusively strong as it can assure self-interest and therefore safety. Otherwise, people will change their lifestyles as their children and babies are safer. And as they become more educated and economicly mobile they will have less children.

We're all much more alike than you think. Most people want to have families, be with them and raise their children. That's it.

So please don't give into the wedge-building propaganda, which is dangerous among non-Muslims and Muslims alike.

Please becpart of the solution, which is to treat people like human beings, not automatic enemies.

Great post and info...but I am still wondering what it would be like to have a kebob shop down the street!!!

[ksfisher]

20 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Note the term..."Member Invovlement"  which is synonymous with the LDS term "Active Member"  So yes they have 20 Million Active members while Mormonism is somewhere near 5 Million active members.  The 7th Day Adventist Church does not consider those who are not actively engaged in the church on the membership roles...unlike the LDS church which maintains a member on its roles irrespective of activity level.  Also note that they are baptizing well over 1.2 million members a year compared to LDS 257,000 converts

Note the financial  transparency as well...https://www.adventist.org/en/information/statistics/article/go/-/seventh-day-adventist-world-church-statistics-2014/

So I guess the choice is be involved in a church with financial transparency or one that has authority to act in the name of Jesus Christ.  Let's see...which should I choose...

[bcuzbcuz]

1 hour ago, RevTestament said:

Your blind denials don't do anything against the math. Do you deny the native Swedish fertility rate is low? Perhaps you are smarter than the laws of math. You can't outrun the math unless you Swedes immediately all start having 2+ children. That is probably why the EU brought in the Muslim immigrants in the first place - to replace you. Within easily 40 years Sweden will be at least 50% Muslim. I believe within 30 years. They will be in your government, and in your law enforcement like they are in Egypt. And if they want Sharia law, that is what you will live under. Which means you will die unless you pay the Jizyah. But let's not worry about that now....we can change them! Did that work in Iraq?

And if you are going to say I don't know what Sharia is I will be glad to discuss that with you since I have become somewhat of an expert (although it would need to be on another forum) - perhaps it may be an eye-opening experience for you. You do know what happens to the frog that stays in the pot too long don't you?

I won't challenge you on your knowledge of Sharia. I could care less. I do, however, live in Sweden. I have lived her for more than 25 years. I have lived and worked in some of the areas in Sweden that have the highest percentage of immigrants. I myself am an immigrant. My wife is an immigrant. But the difference between you and me is that I can read Swedish newspapers (I taught Swedish for many many years).

You, on the otherhand, cannot read Swedish, so you are removed at least one step from first person experences. Secondly, you seem to have very questionable sources for your information about Sweden. 

You seem to think that the statistics of birth rates in Sweden doom the country to being over run by Muslims. You can read numbers but have no idea about the details behind those numbers. I'm an immigrant and I have 6 children born in Sweden. I have 14 grandchildren. My wife has three children, all born of immigrant parents. Our kids are all listed in any stats of childen born to immigrant parents. 

In other words, you biases blind you to the actual situation in Sweden. You seem to think our problems are worse than in American ghettos. Provide some actual statistics from ghettos you have either lived in or to which you are evry familiar.

I'll compare actual stats with you any day of the week.

[bcuzbcuz]

36 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

Turkey is not Sharia and it is majority Muslim. It's not the only one such.

The Muslims I know are acclimating here in France. One family is our good friends who work for us. Another is the school bus driver. His wife is a cashier and she does not cover her head at work, btw.  Another owns a kebab shop down the street serving mostly non-Muslims employing non-Muslims.

Don't tell me not to believe my eyes.

Btw religion is not the biggest predictor of fertility rates. The biggest predictor of high fertility is high infant mortality.

This should tell you something about demographic trends.This should tell you that Islam is only as exclusively strong as it can assure self-interest and therefore safety. Otherwise, people will change their lifestyles as their children and babies are safer. And as they become more educated and economicly mobile they will have less children.

We're all much more alike than you think. Most people want to have families, be with them and raise their children. That's it.

So please don't give into the wedge-building propaganda, which is dangerous among non-Muslims and Muslims alike.

Please becpart of the solution, which is to treat people like human beings, not automatic enemies.

We have two pizzerias plus one restaurant in our area, run by muslims. One of the pizzerias has a marvelous pizza with  feta cheese, merguez and sucuk sausages, sliced olives, grape leaf dolmas. The restaurant serves Lebanese food that is divine. We welcome all such multi-cultures to our area. (Although we have more Thai restaurants in our area than any of type....but they are definitely not muslim, so I guess their numbers don't count by those fixated on their "muslim flood" fantasy.

[sheilauk]

5 hours ago, RevTestament said:

I wish I was wrong. I don't know if you have your head in the PC sand or what, but your country of Sweden will be first.

Your native fertility rate is very low - I believe about 1.1-1.3, which means every two generations your native population is a quarter of its previous numbers. On the other hand your population of Muslims is on the opposite upward spiral. 

Here is some footage from Sweden which I characterize as worse than the worst American ghetto -

= news crew is repeatedly unprovokedly attacked

London now has a population of several million muslims. They have strong-armed the government into getting Shariah courts. They recently even got the consent to bring in child brides, which of course are illegal here in the states, and viewed as child abuse. Under Christian law it is a reprehensible sin.

Under the US constitution Shariah law is unconstitutional because it takes away civil liberties and in fact demands the death penalty for those practicing their civil liberties. Shariah law will fling Great Britain back into the dark ages (after 1000 years of advancement in western law) where people are killed for speaking their mind.

Egyptian Christians and converted Muslims coming to the United States are very very concerned for Europe.

It seems Sweden did not learn the lesson of Christian Lebanon. Christian you say? Yeah, before the Muslims came in it was an open, prosperous Christian country - something like Sweden was. Now it is an impoverished, war-torn Muslim country. Under the EU, Europe is doing the same thing to itself.

This is Brigette Gabriel, Christian survivor of Lebanon: 

Watch it and learn what is going to happen.

There are approximately 3 million muslims in the UK in total.  around 1 million live in London, not several millions.  There are areas of the uk and London which have a high percentage of Muslims and there are areas with a high percentage of other faiths and races,  people tend to congregate. Most muslims in the uk probably come from Pakistan and India due to empire.  Most muslim terrorists are 2nd or 3rd generation or white converts.   They have caused fewer attacks and deaths than white Catholic irish terrorists did throughout the 70s.  Most simply get on with their lives.   They cannot bring in child brides and the age of consent remains 16.  In fact we have laws now to prevent forced marriages!   There are sharia courts,  they have existed for decades and are used for debt settlement, estates on death,  divorce and child maintenance, never crime.  Jewish communities have similar internal community courts.   there is more violence from white right wing fascists in the uk than from muslims. Lebanon was torn apart because it was a pawn in the war between Syria and Israel.  There were always muslims there,  it was the Syrian occupation that did the damage. The right wing press blame immigrants and muslims for everything because they are convenient scapegoats.  of course we need to remain alert to threats from the violent fanatics of all stripes but we should not give in to fear mongering and plain old lies.

And if anyone will be 1st,  it'll be the uk.  but the problems are caused by fear not the reality. 

Edited March 7, 2017 by sheilauk

[RevTestament]

6 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

Turkey is not Sharia and it is majority Muslim. It's not the only one such.

Perhaps you do not remember Turkey's history. After Turkey was dethroned as the last Muslim Empire (Ottoman) after WW I, it deposed all its Christians forcing them to march across the desert to die. So, although they are not ruled under Sharia, they are very much Islamic. I did not say all Muslim countries are Sharia. Actually there are rumors that Iranians are regretting their decision to live under Sharia. I hope the eject it. It is a primitive and barbaric law, and is the antithesis of Christianity.

Quote

The Muslims I know are acclimating here in France. One family is our good friends who work for us. Another is the school bus driver. His wife is a cashier and she does not cover her head at work, btw.  Another owns a kebab shop down the street serving mostly non-Muslims employing non-Muslims.

Don't tell me not to believe my eyes.

I concede that some Muslims acclimate and are happy to fit into society. I don't worry about them. PEW research indicates these are about 1/2 of the world's Muslims. Hopefully, you have some of these near you. I believe they are usually more than happy to leave Sharia law. Let's face it. It is an oppressive law. The problem history reveals is that often times these Muslims are viewed as "the hypocrites" by the Quran, and therefore subject to death when other Muslims catch up to them.

Quote

Btw religion is not the biggest predictor of fertility rates. The biggest predictor of high fertility is high infant mortality.

This should tell you something about demographic trends.This should tell you that Islam is only as exclusively strong as it can assure self-interest and therefore safety. Otherwise, people will change their lifestyles as their children and babies are safer. And as they become more educated and economicly mobile they will have less children.

I am merely using existing population demographics. All the European nations are killing themselves off. Given current fertility rates within 50 years the Gentiles will be 1/4 of their present numbers. Although the Muslims won't otherwise overtake them, we haven't seen the trend get better. It is getting worse or lower. On the other hand if Muslims are allowed Sharia they can have up to four wives, and their growth trend is to double every 20 years at current rates. So in 50 years these populations will be roughly equal given current trends. 

Quote

We're all much more alike than you think. Most people want to have families, be with them and raise their children. That's it.

So please don't give into the wedge-building propaganda, which is dangerous among non-Muslims and Muslims alike.

Please becpart of the solution, which is to treat people like human beings, not automatic enemies.

Christians are commanded to love their fellow man. I do not hate Muslims. Actually, I really don't know any. I have met some, and treat them like every one else. My problem is with the ideology of Islam - not Muslims. Muslims are enslaved to an anti-Christ religion. My job is to set them free - not to hate them. Nonetheless, their ideology prevents that. If I try to teach true Christianity they view that as Shirk - an unforgiveable sin. What I am saying is not to hate Muslims or to prevent them from immigrating. I realize there are different sects of Islam, and different interpretations of the law. What I am advocating is that under Constitutional law we should not allow immigrants in to the country who will not agree to live every aspect of Constitutional law. Islam does not allow questioning or criticism - at all. You cannot criticize the Quran or any of the evil practices of Muhammed such as thighing, child marriage, thievery, rape, etc. The Constitution grants freedom of speech and freedom from imposition of religion among other civil rights. Do you know what the Quran says? I think this is the problem. People believe the hype. They believe Islam is the religion of peace. Even Imam Choudery doesn't plow that deception. It means the religion of submission. To who? - the slave driver - the "best deceiver" according to the Quran itself. Should we allow in those who believe they have the "right" to marry and thigh toddler babies? That is a violation of the civil rights of the infant.

Conflict is inevitable because at its core the Quran is an oppressive law which one can only submit to. There are no civil rights in Islam. Our country just finally approved basic civil rights for everybody, and we want to allow in a bunch of Sharia law followers who want to take those away? I think not. In Sweden it is already happening. The speech police are now empowered, and one cannot speak against Islam. It is "hate speech." They are signing their own death warrants. It is sad. 

No, if they want to come to the United States they need to agree to live under the Constitution and give up traditional Sharia interpretations. No exceptions for Muslims. Everyone else lives under the constitution. To grant exceptions will be the end of the republic. Why is that I don't see any refugees clambering to go to other Muslim countries? I don't see other Muslim countries extending a helping hand either. Saudi Arabia regularly turns away Yemeni and Somalian Muslims - the latter often die during the trip to try to get in. The Somali Muslims are some of the biggest trouble makers in Sweden - next to the Pakistanis. The whole refugee mess if the fault of the Obama administration in the first place. Although the Syrian ruler is a despot, there was relative peace. Obama was supporting the side of ISIS against the ruler causing the civil war to drag out, and the whole refugee crisis - all because of a bunch of rag tag rebels. I don't know why the public is not outraged against Obama. They are kept in the dark. 

[Calm]

"Given current fertility rates within 50 years the Gentiles will be 1/4 of their present numbers."

You appear to be ignoring Pew's numbers I posted in the last Pew post I made.

[RevTestament]

2 hours ago, bcuzbcuz said:

I won't challenge you on your knowledge of Sharia. I could care less. I do, however, live in Sweden. I have lived her for more than 25 years. I have lived and worked in some of the areas in Sweden that have the highest percentage of immigrants. I myself am an immigrant. My wife is an immigrant. But the difference between you and me is that I can read Swedish newspapers (I taught Swedish for many many years).

You, on the otherhand, cannot read Swedish, so you are removed at least one step from first person experences. Secondly, you seem to have very questionable sources for your information about Sweden. 

You seem to think that the statistics of birth rates in Sweden doom the country to being over run by Muslims. You can read numbers but have no idea about the details behind those numbers. I'm an immigrant and I have 6 children born in Sweden. I have 14 grandchildren. My wife has three children, all born of immigrant parents. Our kids are all listed in any stats of childen born to immigrant parents. 

Are you a Muslim immigrant? I have not told the Swedes to stop their immigration have I? I just don't want the United States to let in boat-loads of Somalian Muslim pirate thugs, etc. You have every right to defend your country's decision. Sweden swung open its doors and said everybody come on in. That makes me horribly uncomfortable in a constitutional democracy. I believe all immigrants to the US need to disavow Sharia - at least to the extent that it conflicts with the constitution, and perhaps be subject to deportation of they are caught violating the constitution. If they have a history of living Sharia, I believe they should be denied immigration. To just let immigrants in and hope they will change is very foolhardy imho. 

Brother - I am more than happy that you are bucking the fertility rate statistics in Sweden. I actually met someone on line who lived in Sweden. He did an online test which aligned him heavily with the LDS Church, but I believe he may have decided to join the Mennonites. Maybe a friend could reignite the fire.

Quote

You seem to think that the statistics of birth rates in Sweden doom the country to being over run by Muslims. You can read numbers but have no idea about the details behind those numbers. I'm an immigrant and I have 6 children born in Sweden. I have 14 grandchildren. My wife has three children, all born of immigrant parents. Our kids are all listed in any stats of childen born to immigrant parents. 

In other words, you biases blind you to the actual situation in Sweden. You seem to think our problems are worse than in American ghettos. Provide some actual statistics from ghettos you have either lived in or to which you are evry familiar.

I'll compare actual stats with you any day of the week.

Do you think those statistics lie tho? They are an average. Not interested in a stat battle. Either way it is only a matter of time.

My comment about the video is a comparison. I don't believe a TV crew going to an American ghetto is going to get attacked like that TV crew did in Sweden. It was brazen hate. It is often taught in Islamic schools. It will be a real challenge to overcome, and I will pray for you Swedes that you can do it....

No more Anti-Islamic posts.  Everyone get back on topic.

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, RevTestament said:

............................................................  

Quote

Btw religion is not the biggest predictor of fertility rates. The biggest predictor of high fertility is high infant mortality.

This should tell you something about demographic trends.This should tell you that Islam is only as exclusively strong as it can assure self-interest and therefore safety. Otherwise, people will change their lifestyles as their children and babies are safer. And as they become more educated and economicly mobile they will have less children.

I am merely using existing population demographics. All the European nations are killing themselves off. Given current fertility rates within 50 years the Gentiles will be 1/4 of their present numbers. Although the Muslims won't otherwise overtake them, we haven't seen the trend get better. It is getting worse or lower. On the other hand if Muslims are allowed Sharia they can have up to four wives, and their growth trend is to double every 20 years at current rates. So in 50 years these populations will be roughly equal given current trends. ......................................................................   

Not so.  In fact the highest birth rates can be found among religious groups who have high levels of education and religious commitment -- Mormons and Orthodox Jews for example.  This will continue to be the case in America.

Edited March 8, 2017 by Robert F. Smith

[Meadowchik]

6 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Not so.  In fact the highest birth rates can be found among religious groups who have high levels of education and religious commitment -- Mormons and Orthodox Jews for example.  This will continue to be the case in America.

Utah's fertility rate is steadily decreasing toward 2.2. It's true that people like me (Mormon with seven kids) may represent the outliers in trends, but you have to consider all the other women having zero children, including those in religions with the largest families.

Religion is not stopping the trends.

[RevTestament]

6 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Not so.  In fact the highest birth rates can be found among religious groups who have high levels of education and religious commitment -- Mormons and Orthodox Jews for example.  This will continue to be the case in America.

The US has a fertility rate of about 2.11. Are you saying that is not so? It is highest among all the nations I have spoken of - than all the nations of W Europe. I have given no rates for various religious groups you mention. Spain's is actually as low as 1.1 - that means 1/4 of the native population in 2 generations. 

[Alan]

20 hours ago, bcuzbcuz said:

Are you serious??? I mean, really?

Do you live in Europe? Where are you getting your information?

I live in Europe. I live in the country that has taken in the highest number of refugees per capita than any other European country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_refugee_population

Have I become Islamic? No. Have any of my neighbours become Islamic? No. But I have worked with refugees from Syria, Chad, Sudan and Iran. Some were Islamic, if they bothered to disclose. The woman and her daughter from Iran are Christian and I only know that because of her Facebook page. Religion didn't come up as a topic when I was teaching them Swedish. So your "information" "opinion" that "Islam is taking over Europe" is pure nonsense.

But I have visited Germany, France, the UK, Italy, Norway, Finland, Estonian, Latvia, Russia, Spain, Portugal, Egypt, Tunisia, Morocco, Turkey and Greece, all within the last three years and I'll say you don't know what you're talking about.

You're absolutely correct.

I had an American tell me the other day that "Europe is now majority Muslim"! I thought it was a joke to begin with, but he was dead serious.

There is a problem in some localized areas though, especially Malmo for example. My son recently returned from serving as a missionary in Sweden and told me there are some no-go areas. He was chased out of a neighbourhood by knife wielding Muslims more than once.

But these problems are very localized.