12 Reasons Millenials are Over Church

[Bobbieaware]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I didn't see anywhere that they didn't come to church because they didn't believe in God/Jesus Christ. I think they know that men or woman now, run the church. And they don't trust what is taught, and they believe some of those teachings are harmful. I can think of several in the LDS church that caused harm, IMO.

Read verse two again.

 

[JulieM]

15 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Again I need to be careful about what I share...but my inside source told me that the church is going to double down on indoctrination, exposure to difficulties, inoculation and an attempt at being more open to their worldview. 

Do you mean less exposure to difficulties? (Such as trying to avoid discussing or learning about troubling historical issues, for example).

Or what exactly?

(And thanks for sharing more on what you know!)

Edited February 23, 2017 by JulieM

[Johnnie Cake]

10 minutes ago, JulieM said:

Do you mean less exposure to difficulties? (Such as trying to avoid discussing or learning about troubling historical issues, for example).

Or what exactly?

(And thanks for sharing more on what you know!)

More open and honest...the church knows that the information is out there and widely available...the only thing they have left is how it is spun...and they intend to spin it their way.  Let me add...that the church has always spun its narrative in a faith promoting manner...that won't change...but now you will see the church spinning the difficulties in a faith promoting manner as well.  Coming soon to a church near you...How a stone found while digging a neighbors well and placed in a hat..is actually a faith promoting story of the power of God's hand in our daily lives.  It's already started in the new seminary lessons

Edited February 23, 2017 by Johnnie Cake

[Tacenda]

7 minutes ago, Bobbieaware said:

Read verse two again.

 

I don't understand, what do you mean read verse two again? I'm referring to the list by HJW in the opening post.

[mapman]

I feel like if the church culture were more accepting of different approaches to the religion, people would feel more welcome even if they didn't agree with everything. Right now, it's at the point where you can kind of do things you're own way as long as you keep it to yourself. Maybe what we need is not necessarily try to shape the church to the needs of a particular generation, but rather try to get people to being more open to the possibility of diverse beliefs and approaches in the religion.

I've found it interesting how some religions have different approaches to the religion built in, such as religions with monastic orders. Like with Catholicism you can chose to be a layperson, to be part of the clergy, or chose from a variety of monastic orders. I don't think we should model our religion off of any other, but I like the thought of when someone knows you are a Mormon, that doesn't mean that they think that they already know everything about your religious, social, and political beliefs and practices.

As long as you have a conviction of the restored fullness of the Gospel, and have voluntarily been baptized into the church, it seems like we should be open to differences. For example, actually really being ok with some of us not automatically accepting everything prophets and apostles say. It breaks my heart that so many people reject the Gospel because we get hung up on social issues. I hope that as a church we can find ways to speak to the needs of younger generations, because like it or not, they are the future.

[Tacenda]

40 minutes ago, bluebell said:

That's probably true.  I think that millennials are very different from previous generations and that it's partly because they are messed up and partly because they are awesome.  And that's why they struggle in the church, but also why we need them.  I remember reading an older Time Magazine article that had some good stats on Milennials and went looking for it.  I think it outlines some reasons why Millennials are struggling in church but why they will be great for the church if they can hang in there.

The quotes are all from this article in Time Magazine.  My thoughts or summaries are in blue (to hopefully make it less confusing to read).

I think that Millennials are the recipients of some bad parenting philosophies and that it's cause some serious issues for them.  It's not the millennials fault or their parents, but it can't be ignored-

"They got this way partly because, in the 1970s, people wanted to improve kids' chances of success by instilling self-esteem. It turns out that self-esteem is great for getting a job or hooking up at a bar but not so great for keeping a job or a relationship. "It was an honest mistake," says Roy Baumeister, a psychology professor at Florida State University and the editor of Self-Esteem: The Puzzle of Low Self-Regard. "The early findings showed that, indeed, kids with high self-esteem did better in school and were less likely to be in various kinds of trouble. It's just that we've learned later that self-esteem is a result, not a cause." The problem is that when people try to boost self-esteem, they accidentally boost narcissism instead. "Just tell your kids you love them. It's a better message," says Jean Twenge, a psychology professor at San Diego State University, who wrote Generation Me and The Narcissism Epidemic. "When they're little it seems cute to tell them they're special or a princess or a rock star or whatever their T-shirt says. When they're 14 it's no longer cute." All that self-esteem leads them to be disappointed when the world refuses to affirm how great they know they are. "This generation has the highest likelihood of having unmet expectations with respect to their careers and the lowest levels of satisfaction with their careers at the stage that they're at," says Sean Lyons, co-editor of Managing the New Workforce: International Perspectives on the Millennial Generation. "It is sort of a crisis of unmet expectations."

And it's causing them some real problems-

"Here's the cold, hard data: The incidence of narcissistic personality disorder is nearly three times as high for people in their 20s as for the generation that's now 65 or older, according to the National Institutes of Health; 58% more college students scored higher on a narcissism scale in 2009 than in 1982. Millennials got so many participation trophies growing up that a recent study showed that 40% believe they should be promoted every two years, regardless of performance. They are fame-obsessed: three times as many middle school girls want to grow up to be a personal assistant to a famous person as want to be a Senator, according to a 2007 survey; four times as many would pick the assistant job over CEO of a major corporation. They're so convinced of their own greatness that the National Study of Youth and Religion found the guiding morality of 60% of millennials in any situation is that they'll just be able to feel what's right. Their development is stunted: more people ages 18 to 29 live with their parents than with a spouse, according to the 2012 Clark University Poll of Emerging Adults."

"What millennials are most famous for besides narcissism is its effect: entitlement. If you want to sell seminars to middle managers, make them about how to deal with young employees who e-mail the CEO directly and beg off projects they find boring. English teacher David McCullough Jr.'s address last year to Wellesley High School's graduating class, a 12-minute reality check titled "You Are Not Special," has nearly 2 million hits on YouTube. "Climb the mountain so you can see the world, not so the world can see you," McCullough told the graduates. He says nearly all the response to the video has been positive, especially from millennials themselves; the video has 57 likes for every dislike.

Though they're cocky about their place in the world, millennials are also stunted, having prolonged a life stage between teenager and adult that this magazine once called twixters and will now use once again in an attempt to get that term to catch on. The idea of the teenager started in the 1920s; in 1910, only a tiny percentage of kids went to high school, so most people's social interactions were with adults in their family or in the workplace. Now that cell phones allow kids to socialize at every hour--they send and receive an average of 88 texts a day, according to Pew--they're living under the constant influence of their friends. "Peer pressure is anti-intellectual. It is anti-historical. It is anti-eloquence," says Mark Bauerlein, an English professor at Emory, who wrote The Dumbest Generation: How the Digital Age Stupefies Young Americans and Jeopardizes Our Future (Or, Don't Trust Anyone Under 30). "Never before in history have people been able to grow up and reach age 23 so dominated by peers. To develop intellectually you've got to relate to older people, older things: 17-year-olds never grow up if they're just hanging around other 17-year-olds." Of all the objections to Obamacare, not a lot of people argued against parents' need to cover their kids' health insurance until they're 26."

They are so blessed though and are great at finding opportunities and working toward personal growth-

"For almost all of human history, almost everyone was a small-scale farmer. And then people were farmers and factory workers. Nobody gets very much fulfillment from either of those things," says Jeffrey Arnett, a psychology professor at Clark University, who invented the phrase emerging adulthood, which people foolishly use instead of the catchy twixters. Twixters put off life choices because they can choose from a huge array of career options, some of which, like jobs in social media, didn't exist 10 years ago. What idiot would try to work her way up at a company when she's going to have an average of seven jobs before age 26? Because of online dating, Facebook circles and the ability to connect with people internationally, they no longer have to marry someone from their high school class or even their home country. Because life expectancy is increasing so rapidly and technology allows women to get pregnant in their 40s, they're more free to postpone big decisions. The median age for an American woman's first marriage went from 20.6 in 1967 to 26.9 in 2011.

In fact, a lot of what counts as typical millennial behavior is how rich kids have always behaved. The Internet has democratized opportunity for many young people, giving them access and information that once belonged mostly to the wealthy. When I was growing up in the 1980s, I thought I would be a lawyer, since that was the best option I knew about for people who sucked at math in my middle-class suburb, but I saw a lot more options once I got to Stanford. "Previously if you wanted to be a writer but didn't know anyone who is in publishing, it was just, Well, I won't write. But now it's, Wait, I know someone who knows someone," says Jane Buckingham, who studies workplace changes as founder of Trendera, a consumer-insights firm. "I hear story after story of people high up in an organization saying, 'Well, this person just e-mailed me and asked me for an hour of my time, and for whatever reason I gave it to them.' So the great thing is that they do feel entitled to all of this, so they'll be more innovative and more willing to try new things and they'll do all this cool stuff."

It can cause problems between Millennials and earlier generations but it can also bring us closer together-

"Because millennials don't respect authority, they also don't resent it. That's why they're the first teens who aren't rebelling. They're not even sullen. "I grew up watching Peanuts, where you didn't even see the parents. They were that 'Wah-wah' voice. And MTV was always a parent-free zone," says MTV president Stephen Friedman, 43, who now includes parents in nearly all the channel's reality shows. "One of our research studies early on said that a lot of this audience outsources their superego to their parents. The most simple decision of should I do this or should I do that--our audience will check in with their parents." It's hard to hate your parents when they also listen to rap and watch Jon Stewart.

In fact, many parents of millennials would proudly call their child-rearing style peer-enting. "They're going after what they want. It can be a little irritating that they want to be on the next rung so quickly. Maybe I'm partly responsible for it. I like this generation, so I have no issues with that."

They are different, but that doesn't mean they are worse.  Every generation has some issues. In a lot of ways they are amazing but i think sometimes, when it comes to their relationship with the church, that because their expectations for life don't work in church, it causes problems.

Millennials are able to use their leverage to negotiate much better contracts with the traditional institutions they do still join. Although the armed forces had to lower the physical standards for recruits and make boot camp less intensive, Gary Stiteler, who has been an Army recruiter for about 15 years, is otherwise more impressed with millennials than any other group he's worked with. "The generation that we enlisted when I first started recruiting was sort of do, do, do. This generation is think, think about it before you do it," he says. "This generation is three to four steps ahead. They're coming in saying, 'I want to do this, then when I'm done with this, I want to do this.'"

Here's something even all the psychologists who fret over their narcissism studies agree about: millennials are nice. They have none of that David Letterman irony and Gen X ennui. "The positivism has surprised me. The Internet was always 50-50 positive and negative. And now it's 90-10," says Shane Smith, the 43-year-old CEO of Vice, which adjusted from being a Gen X company in print to a millennial company once it started posting videos online, which are viewed by a much younger audience. Millennials are more accepting of differences, not just among gays, women and minorities but in everyone. "There are many, many subcultures, and you can dip into them and search around. I prefer that to you're either supermainstream or a riot grrrl," says Tavi Gevinson, a 17-year-old who runs Rookie, an online fashion magazine, from her bedroom when she's not at school. It's hard, in other words, to join the counterculture when there's no culture. "There's not this us-vs.-them thing now. Maybe that's why millennials don't rebel," she says.

They have so much to offer but because they offer it in a different way than the other generation is used to, we butt heads.  I think we see this in the church-

But if you need the ultimate proof that millennials could be a great force for positive change, know this: Tom Brokaw, champion of the Greatest Generation, loves millennials. He calls them the Wary Generation, and he thinks their cautiousness in life decisions is a smart response to their world. "Their great mantra has been: Challenge convention. Find new and better ways of doing things.

We are a church that does not like to challenge convention and I bet many millennials feel stifled sometimes.  I think this paragraph in the Time article sums it up perfectly-

"So here's a more rounded picture of millennials than the one I started with. All of which I also have data for. They're earnest and optimistic. They embrace the system. They are pragmatic idealists, tinkerers more than dreamers, life hackers. Their world is so flat that they have no leaders, which is why revolutions from Occupy Wall Street to Tahrir Square have even less chance than previous rebellions. They want constant approval--they post photos from the dressing room as they try on clothes. They have massive fear of missing out and have an acronym for everything (including FOMO). They're celebrity obsessed but don't respectfully idolize celebrities from a distance. (Thus Us magazine's "They're just like us!" which consists of paparazzi shots of famous people doing everyday things.) They're not into going to church, even though they believe in God, because they don't identify with big institutions; one-third of adults under 30, the highest percentage ever, are religiously unaffiliated. They want new experiences, which are more important to them than material goods. They are cool and reserved and not all that passionate. They are informed but inactive: they hate Joseph Kony but aren't going to do anything about Joseph Kony. They are probusiness. They're financially responsible; although student loans have hit record highs, they have less household and credit-card debt than any previous generation on record--which, admittedly, isn't that hard when you're living at home and using your parents' credit card. They love their phones but hate talking on them."

So, after re-reading the article, I think the answer lies in compromise.  Millennials are wrong to believe that church should be molded around their expectations and their needs alone.  They are wrong to think that church should work the same way (and respond the same way to them) that society tends to work and respond.  The church is not society and should not be confused with society. 

On the flip side though, older generations are wrong to think that Millennials are a broken generation that has little to offer.  We are wrong to think that it's only Millennials that need to change.  There is room for change in the church (a lot of church is tradition and policy) and Millennials are perfectly suited to lead that push and bring us to the next level.  

 

Thanks, sums up my feelings perfectly. I've always believed the youth are better now than when I was a youth, especially as far as accepting those that are different than them. I hope world peace will come of it also. 

[JulieM]

20 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

More open and honest...the church knows that the information is out there and widely available...the only thing they have left is how it is spun...and they intend to spin it their way.  Let me add...that the church has always spun its narrative in a faith promoting manner...that won't change...but now you will see the church spinning the difficulties in a faith promoting manner as well.  Coming soon to a church near you...How a stone found while digging a neighbors well and placed in a hat..is actually a faith promoting story of the power of God's hand in our daily lives.  It's already started in the new seminary lessons

Well, they'll have to change the illustrations too! 

(So far that's very slow going.)

It will be interesting to watch the church be more open regarding certain topics.  Polygamy is a huge issue for many, but it's still such a taboo topic to even mention in a church class or setting. 

Somehow they need to change the feeling of having to hide your beliefs while at church or get rid of the fear members have of raising their hands and making comments about so called taboo topics.  The fear is almost palpable at times.

It was refreshing to see the younger members feel they could be more open when I visited the young adult ward this week.  

I think they are also much more open regarding SSM, etc. too.

Edited February 23, 2017 by JulieM

[Tacenda]

7 minutes ago, JulieM said:

Well, they'll have to change the illustrations too! 

(So far that's very slow going.)

It will be interesting to watch the church be more open regarding certain topics.  Polygamy is a huge issue for many, but it's still such a taboo topic to even mention in a church class or setting. 

Somehow they need to change the feeling of having to hide your beliefs while at church or get rid of the fear members have of raising their hands and making comments about so called taboo topics.  The fear is almost palpable at times.

It was refreshing to see the younger members feel they could get more open when I visited the young adult ward this week.  

I remember a primary class a few years ago that I assisted a special needs young man in, where the married couple that taught the class were reading about polygamy in the Bible with the class and mentioned that we had it in our church also, but it was to take care of the widows. I so wanted to mention that it wasn't why we had polygamy, but kept my lips zipped.

And recently my husband taught a lesson about the BoM translation and in the lesson it doesn't mention the stone in the hat method. He wasn't going to go out of the lesson plan and teach it. But a young woman, they are in 6th grade, mentioned that her dad told her that Joseph looked in a hat with a stone to translate, and she was flabbergasted about it. My husband's co-teacher didn't appear to know what she was talking about, but my husband did. He let it pass, and didn't expound upon it. But it would have been a great teaching moment to inoculate. 

Edited February 23, 2017 by Tacenda

[Maestrophil]

3 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

A discussion yesterday reminded me of this article and I'm curious about your thoughts. While some will claim that Millenials are leaving because they are lazy, self-centered, non-resilient etc, I think there is a lot more going on here. This Article lists 12 Reasons Millenials are Over Church. Some reasons are self-explanatory but others require a little context so I encourage you to read the article if you don't understand the point. This phenomena with Millenials is in no way limited to our church, but rather is a cultural shift to which all churches need to adapt.

 

1. Nobody’s Listening to Us

2. We’re Sick of Hearing About Values & Mission Statements

3. Helping the Poor Isn’t a Priority

4. We’re Tired of You Blaming the Culture

5. The “You Can’t Sit With Us” Affect

6. Distrust & Misallocation of Resources

7. We Want to Be Mentored, Not Preached At

8. We Want to Feel Valued

9. We Want You to Talk to Us About Controversial Issues (Because No One Is)

10. The Public Perception

11. Stop Talking About Us (Unless You’re Actually Going to Do Something)

12. You’re Failing to Adapt

http://www.recklesslyalive.com/12-reasons-millennials-are-over-church/

It seems to me that without significant adaptation, churches in general, and the LDS church in particular, will lose the majority of a generation which will be difficult to regain. I'm curious what kind of adaptation you feel would be useful.

If you view adaptation as wrong, why?

The common thread in almost all of these points to me on first glance (I admit, I have not yet had time to read the entire article) is ME, and more ME, pride, life is short YOLO and oh - entitlement.

1. Nobody’s Listening to Us - My initial reaction having millennial kids is that this means.  "You may be listening to us, but you are not changing what bothers us."  Which are usually the moral doctrines that will not change radically probably ever.

2. We’re Sick of Hearing About Values & Mission Statements - Sick of values = "I want to do what I want to do , and I am not having a bunch of old men tell me what I can do"

3. Helping the Poor Isn’t a Priority - Uh, this one speaks for itself.

4. We’re Tired of You Blaming the Culture - That is because the culture is promoting everything they are wanting and goes against what they are sick of.  The culture expects very little self-control from anyone IMO.

5. The “You Can’t Sit With Us” Affect - Admittedly, if this means a sense of exclusion or social rejection, that is something the church needs to continue to improve and foster.  

6. Distrust & Misallocation of Resources - As above, I believe more transparency is always good and needed. The church is making strides her that I hope will continue. 

7. We Want to Be Mentored, Not Preached At - Do they really want to be mentored?  Or is this just a smoke screen for "stop preaching that we need to be selfless and chaste to please God"?

8. We Want to Feel Valued - Valued for what?  They are valued for being a child of God, but I 'value' my children less when they just expect to be given benefits with no work or sacrifice.  The ones who contribute nothing and demand the most are the ones who sow great disharmony in the home - is church that much different?

9. We Want You to Talk to Us About Controversial Issues (Because No One Is) - The church is not talking about difficult issues?  I have read statements and heard lessons lately where - LGTBQ issues have been addressed including bathroom issues, political issues, refugees and troublesome church history.  Or do they mean "talk to us about controversial issues in a way that will make us feel like you are changing to be more in-line with the times"?

10. The Public Perception - No problem with public perception of piercings, gauges, tats, wearing gender defying clothes and hair - but they are worries about being perceived as religious?

11. Stop Talking About Us (Unless You’re Actually Going to Do Something) - I think the church is scrambling to do many things - but those things don't amount to what these people want.  Very time I have heard leaders talk about this generation, it is ALWAYS with love and a plea to remain faithful.

12. You’re Failing to Adapt - Failing to adapt to lowering moral standards?  If they hope that the church will accept sexually practicing gay people married or not into full fellowship, they will be waiting a long, long time.  If they hope the church will reduce the standards of sex outside of marriage, same thing.  If they are hoping they can consume craft beers and chilled coffee without repercussion etc.  They are not likely going to be happy in the church in their lifetimes.  

I am not trying to sound harsh, because that is not my personality at all.  But I do not see a way these people can be happy at church unless THEY make some serious changes to their morals and values. And personally speaking, I don;t really want anyone to be in the church who does not want to or who finds no happiness there.

 

[Gray]

9 minutes ago, Maestrophil said:

 

1. Helping the Poor Isn’t a Priority - Uh, this one speaks for itself.

2.  

I think what is meant by that is that millennials are concerned that churches aren't focused enough on helping the poor. 

[JLHPROF]

10 minutes ago, Maestrophil said:

The common thread in almost all of these points to me on first glance (I admit, I have not yet had time to read the entire article) is ME, and more ME, pride, life is short YOLO and oh - entitlement.

1. Nobody’s Listening to Us - My initial reaction having millennial kids is that this means.  "You may be listening to us, but you are not changing what bothers us."  Which are usually the moral doctrines that will not change radically probably ever.

2. We’re Sick of Hearing About Values & Mission Statements - Sick of values = "I want to do what I want to do , and I am not having a bunch of old men tell me what I can do"

3. Helping the Poor Isn’t a Priority - Uh, this one speaks for itself.

4. We’re Tired of You Blaming the Culture - That is because the culture is promoting everything they are wanting and goes against what they are sick of.  The culture expects very little self-control from anyone IMO.

5. The “You Can’t Sit With Us” Affect - Admittedly, if this means a sense of exclusion or social rejection, that is something the church needs to continue to improve and foster.  

6. Distrust & Misallocation of Resources - As above, I believe more transparency is always good and needed. The church is making strides her that I hope will continue. 

7. We Want to Be Mentored, Not Preached At - Do they really want to be mentored?  Or is this just a smoke screen for "stop preaching that we need to be selfless and chaste to please God"?

8. We Want to Feel Valued - Valued for what?  They are valued for being a child of God, but I 'value' my children less when they just expect to be given benefits with no work or sacrifice.  The ones who contribute nothing and demand the most are the ones who sow great disharmony in the home - is church that much different?

9. We Want You to Talk to Us About Controversial Issues (Because No One Is) - The church is not talking about difficult issues?  I have read statements and heard lessons lately where - LGTBQ issues have been addressed including bathroom issues, political issues, refugees and troublesome church history.  Or do they mean "talk to us about controversial issues in a way that will make us feel like you are changing to be more in-line with the times"?

10. The Public Perception - No problem with public perception of piercings, gauges, tats, wearing gender defying clothes and hair - but they are worries about being perceived as religious?

11. Stop Talking About Us (Unless You’re Actually Going to Do Something) - I think the church is scrambling to do many things - but those things don't amount to what these people want.  Very time I have heard leaders talk about this generation, it is ALWAYS with love and a plea to remain faithful.

12. You’re Failing to Adapt - Failing to adapt to lowering moral standards?  If they hope that the church will accept sexually practicing gay people married or not into full fellowship, they will be waiting a long, long time.  If they hope the church will reduce the standards of sex outside of marriage, same thing.  If they are hoping they can consume craft beers and chilled coffee without repercussion etc.  They are not likely going to be happy in the church in their lifetimes.  

I am not trying to sound harsh, because that is not my personality at all.  But I do not see a way these people can be happy at church unless THEY make some serious changes to their morals and values. And personally speaking, I don;t really want anyone to be in the church who does not want to or who finds no happiness there.

 

Looking at their list, you may be right.
I am really not sure what it is they are looking for from the Church, nor why the Church should be working hard to provide it.

[Johnnie Cake]

18 minutes ago, JulieM said:

Well, they'll have to change the illustrations too! 

(So far that's very slow going.)

It will be interesting to watch the church be more open regarding certain topics.  Polygamy is a huge issue for many, but it's still such a taboo topic to even mention in a church class or setting. 

Somehow they need to change the feeling of having to hide your beliefs while at church or get rid of the fear members have of raising their hands and making comments about so called taboo topics.  The fear is almost palpable at times.

It was refreshing to see the younger members feel they could be more open when I visited the young adult ward this week.  

I think they are also much more open regarding SSM, etc. too.

I KNOW first hand that the church has commissioned new translation pictures that include the hat translation method...all have been rejected for public consumption...my guess... to quote Brother Packer "Some things that are true are not very helpful" or in other words better to keep it mysterious rather than create a picture that solidifies the Bizarre

[Tacenda]

19 minutes ago, Maestrophil said:

The common thread in almost all of these points to me on first glance (I admit, I have not yet had time to read the entire article) is ME, and more ME, pride, life is short YOLO and oh - entitlement.

1. Nobody’s Listening to Us - My initial reaction having millennial kids is that this means.  "You may be listening to us, but you are not changing what bothers us."  Which are usually the moral doctrines that will not change radically probably ever.

2. We’re Sick of Hearing About Values & Mission Statements - Sick of values = "I want to do what I want to do , and I am not having a bunch of old men tell me what I can do"

3. Helping the Poor Isn’t a Priority - Uh, this one speaks for itself.

4. We’re Tired of You Blaming the Culture - That is because the culture is promoting everything they are wanting and goes against what they are sick of.  The culture expects very little self-control from anyone IMO.

5. The “You Can’t Sit With Us” Affect - Admittedly, if this means a sense of exclusion or social rejection, that is something the church needs to continue to improve and foster.  

6. Distrust & Misallocation of Resources - As above, I believe more transparency is always good and needed. The church is making strides her that I hope will continue. 

7. We Want to Be Mentored, Not Preached At - Do they really want to be mentored?  Or is this just a smoke screen for "stop preaching that we need to be selfless and chaste to please God"?

8. We Want to Feel Valued - Valued for what?  They are valued for being a child of God, but I 'value' my children less when they just expect to be given benefits with no work or sacrifice.  The ones who contribute nothing and demand the most are the ones who sow great disharmony in the home - is church that much different?

9. We Want You to Talk to Us About Controversial Issues (Because No One Is) - The church is not talking about difficult issues?  I have read statements and heard lessons lately where - LGTBQ issues have been addressed including bathroom issues, political issues, refugees and troublesome church history.  Or do they mean "talk to us about controversial issues in a way that will make us feel like you are changing to be more in-line with the times"?

10. The Public Perception - No problem with public perception of piercings, gauges, tats, wearing gender defying clothes and hair - but they are worries about being perceived as religious?

11. Stop Talking About Us (Unless You’re Actually Going to Do Something) - I think the church is scrambling to do many things - but those things don't amount to what these people want.  Very time I have heard leaders talk about this generation, it is ALWAYS with love and a plea to remain faithful.

12. You’re Failing to Adapt - Failing to adapt to lowering moral standards?  If they hope that the church will accept sexually practicing gay people married or not into full fellowship, they will be waiting a long, long time.  If they hope the church will reduce the standards of sex outside of marriage, same thing.  If they are hoping they can consume craft beers and chilled coffee without repercussion etc.  They are not likely going to be happy in the church in their lifetimes.  

I am not trying to sound harsh, because that is not my personality at all.  But I do not see a way these people can be happy at church unless THEY make some serious changes to their morals and values. And personally speaking, I don;t really want anyone to be in the church who does not want to or who finds no happiness there.

 

I do admit, I see some of this "me" attitude, even in my children, they are older and out of the house now. But what kind of world have we left them, a world that they even want to bring children into (I know you didn't mention this topic)? Maybe the Baby Boomers or the GenXer's should have been thinking of our world for the future generations a little more carefully. Nope, I think we enjoyed our moment in the sun a little too much. I hope the future generations can feel more comfortable to start a family. But it isn't looking that way, my own niece who is very TBM, was afraid to have children, although she finally felt safe enough to bring two in. But it took a lot of struggle for her to feel safe about it. 

But still see the generation now to be more loving of those that are different than them. I haven't lost hope in them, I think they can teach us! But as you mention, the church would frown on them doing their own thing, but feel some members including the older generation do their own thing on all the days except in church on Sunday, so what do they call them? Buffet Mormons?

 

Edited February 23, 2017 by Tacenda

[JulieM]

11 minutes ago, Maestrophil said:

1. Distrust & Misallocation of Resources - As above, I believe more transparency is always good and needed. The church is making strides her that I hope will continue. 

What "strides" have you seen the church making regarding being more financially transparent?  

Those forced by some of the recent leaks or are you referring to something else they are now doing?

[JLHPROF]

1. Nobody’s Listening to Us - which means what?  What are they saying that isn't being heard?

2. We’re Sick of Hearing About Values & Mission Statements - Values = morals and Mission Statements = service.  Why would we be rid of those?

3. Helping the Poor Isn’t a Priority  - Simply not true.   But why do people think it should be the number one priority.  It's up there but not number one.

4. We’re Tired of You Blaming the Culture - For what?  The culture has changed.  More aspects of the culture now conflict with gospel standards.

5. The “You Can’t Sit With Us” Affect - Inclusiveness?  All are welcome.  All have to follow the same commandments.  Doesn't get more inclusive.

6. Distrust & Misallocation of Resources - Meaning "how is my tithing being spent?"  Correct Answer: Not your concern.

7. We Want to Be Mentored, Not Preached At - So encouraged and taught to do better, not condemned for doing wrong?

8. We Want to Feel Valued - You are the very reason for God's work, the earth's existence and have the potential to become Gods.  Heaven rejoices when you repent.  The creator of the universe answers YOUR prayers.  The perfect Christ died for YOUR mistakes.  Valuable enough yet?

9. We Want You to Talk to Us About Controversial Issues (Because No One Is) - Socially controversial or religiously controversial?  And does that mean you want us to contend and debate?

10. The Public Perception - Of the Church (because who cares) or of the Millennials (because we shouldn't be stereotyping based on age).

11. Stop Talking About Us (Unless You’re Actually Going to Do Something) - You want to be addressed specifically.  They're working on it.

12. You’re Failing to Adapt  - to what?  Cultural changes.  Good.  Technology?  Working on it.  Dislike of some doctrines.  Again, good.
    
    All of these issues are SO focused on self.  The gospel is so much bigger than any group of people.  The whole mentality behind these complaints is just so wrong.

[Maestrophil]

18 minutes ago, Gray said:

I think what is meant by that is that millennials are concerned that churches aren't focused enough on helping the poor. 

Ah.  I was mistaken about that one.  Then yes, I agree that there is always more to do for the poor.  Thanks for correcting me!

[Maestrophil]

16 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I do admit, I see some of this "me" attitude, even in my children, they are older and out of the house now. But what kind of world have we left them, a world that they even want to bring children into (I know you didn't mention this topic)? Maybe the Baby Boomers or the GenXer's should have been thinking of our world for the future generations a little more carefully. Nope, I think we enjoyed our moment in the sun a little too much. I hope the future generations can feel more comfortable to start a family. But it isn't looking that way, my own niece who is very TBM, was afraid to have children, although she finally felt safe enough to bring two in. But it took a lot of struggle for her to feel safe about it. 

But still see the generation now to be more loving of those that are different than them. I haven't lost hope in them, I think they can teach us! But as you mention, the church would frown on them doing their own thing, but feel some members including the older generation do their own thing on all the days except in church on Sunday, so what do they call them? Buffet Mormons?

 

Yep - that is an entirely different topic.  :-)

[Maestrophil]

19 minutes ago, JulieM said:

What "strides" have you seen the church making regarding being more financially transparent?  

Those forced by some of the recent leaks or are you referring to something else they are now doing?

Well, they do release all financial information in Canada and the UK.  And Deloitte and Touche, who is not LDS does a complete audit of all church holdings every year looking for discrepancies.  I see the church publishing essay topics on difficult issues and the overall tone of the church tends to be towards more transparency and honest history.  As I said - I know there is still a long way to go here

[Maestrophil]

17 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

1. Nobody’s Listening to Us - which means what?  What are they saying that isn't being heard?

2. We’re Sick of Hearing About Values & Mission Statements - Values = morals and Mission Statements = service.  Why would we be rid of those?

3. Helping the Poor Isn’t a Priority  - Simply not true.   But why do people think it should be the number one priority.  It's up there but not number one.

4. We’re Tired of You Blaming the Culture - For what?  The culture has changed.  More aspects of the culture now conflict with gospel standards.

5. The “You Can’t Sit With Us” Affect - Inclusiveness?  All are welcome.  All have to follow the same commandments.  Doesn't get more inclusive.

6. Distrust & Misallocation of Resources - Meaning "how is my tithing being spent?"  Correct Answer: Not your concern.

7. We Want to Be Mentored, Not Preached At - So encouraged and taught to do better, not condemned for doing wrong?

8. We Want to Feel Valued - You are the very reason for God's work, the earth's existence and have the potential to become Gods.  Heaven rejoices when you repent.  The creator of the universe answers YOUR prayers.  The perfect Christ died for YOUR mistakes.  Valuable enough yet?

9. We Want You to Talk to Us About Controversial Issues (Because No One Is) - Socially controversial or religiously controversial?  And does that mean you want us to contend and debate?

10. The Public Perception - Of the Church (because who cares) or of the Millennials (because we shouldn't be stereotyping based on age).

11. Stop Talking About Us (Unless You’re Actually Going to Do Something) - You want to be addressed specifically.  They're working on it.

12. You’re Failing to Adapt  - to what?  Cultural changes.  Good.  Technology?  Working on it.  Dislike of some doctrines.  Again, good.
    
    All of these issues are SO focused on self.  The gospel is so much bigger than any group of people.  The whole mentality behind these complaints is just so wrong.

I agree, and as for Tacenda's comment about them being kinder and more accepting.  I also question that based again, on my own children - They accept what they approve of (which many of us doer folks consider 'different') but are excessively critical and demeaning of people who THINK differently than they do about anything.  I know there are great millennials and the broad brush thing is not the best approach - but I do lament our culture and it's focus on pride and self.  

Edited February 23, 2017 by Maestrophil

[JAHS]

Bottom line is they want to sin and not feel guilty about it.

[bluebell]

28 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

I KNOW first hand that the church has commissioned new translation pictures that include the hat translation method...all have been rejected for public consumption...my guess... to quote Brother Packer "Some things that are true are not very helpful" or in other words better to keep it mysterious rather than create a picture that solidifies the Bizarre

Who has the power to commission the new pictures and who has the power to reject them?  I thought that both groups included the same people?

[Ouagadougou]

51 minutes ago, JulieM said:

Well, they'll have to change the illustrations too! 

(So far that's very slow going.)

It will be interesting to watch the church be more open regarding certain topics.  Polygamy is a huge issue for many, but it's still such a taboo topic to even mention in a church class or setting. 

Somehow they need to change the feeling of having to hide your beliefs while at church or get rid of the fear members have of raising their hands and making comments about so called taboo topics.  The fear is almost palpable at times.

It was refreshing to see the younger members feel they could be more open when I visited the young adult ward this week.  

I think they are also much more open regarding SSM, etc. too.

The church doesn't practice polygamy....wait, my aunt was sealed to a man last month in the temple as his second wife.  Two apostles practice spiritual polygamy...

[JLHPROF]

8 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Bottom line is they want to sin and not feel guilty about it.

Additionally they think different people should be held to different standards.  It's that "recognize my uniqueness" claim that bleeds through at least half of these.

[Duncan]

Just now, JAHS said:

Bottom line is they want to sin and not feel guilty about it.

that's every generation! if they find the magic elixir, share the wealth!

[Gray]

Am I the only one who thinks that half of what's written about generations is made up to fill space? We seem to be in love with making broad generalizations about generations. I think most of it is probably nonsense, aside from the demographic statistics and actual survey data.