12 Reasons Millenials are Over Church

[mapman]

3 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I think that's an excellent point.  If that's really the problem though, i think it also highlights a major flaw in millennial thinking.  Experience, and the knowledge and wisdom that comes with it, takes time.  It's not an equality that can just be bestowed or granted.  

Also, every generation goes thru a point where the leadership of the church is made up of people who were raised in completely different social cultures. Other generations were able to navigate that though millennials seem unable to do so (if your thinking above is correct).   Why?

I'm wondering, is it the same reason that we are constantly reading about millennials that still live at home because they won't take a job they don't love or that they feel is beneath them or that doesn't offer them the same standard of living as their parents have in their 40s, 50s, and 60s?  Do millennials have a weird sense of entitlement or an inflated understanding of their own awesomeness that other generations, raised differently, didn't suffer from as much?  

Is it something else?

I have no idea and you probably don't either but your post brought the questions to my mind.

From my point of view, the whole nation has kind of gone crazy and unwilling to listen to each other or to reason, and it isn't fair to blame it on just the millennials. Also, for a lot of millennials there really is less economic opportunity than previous generations. Most of us don't actually live at home, and probably work just as hard as any other generation, but often get paid less, have more student debt, their degree means less, and economic inequality is more stark now than ever in living memory.

[Meadowchik]

The internet has revolutionised life for youth. They can research and learn as much as they want but also find constant entertainment and "companionship" via social media and all sorts of interactive media.  

 

So I kind of agree with a bunch of the bulletpoints in the OP. Mentoring, for instance.  We can ask Google anything but having a response tailored to us individually is much more rare. That's the kind of good remaining despite smartphones. Also, there's service opportunities, seeing people face to face in a joint cause and interacting in that level.

[Johnnie Cake]

Trust me, the church is well aware that it is hemorrhaging its millennials...it also knows that so far all attempts to curb the outflow have been unsuccessful...but new steps are in the works in the hope that they can avert disaster with the millennial generation.  That's all I can say...probably said more than I should but I need to protect a source

 

 

[stemelbow]

Top 4 hit me most in suggesting the biggest issues:

1. Nobody’s Listening to Us

2. We’re Sick of Hearing About Values & Mission Statements

3. Helping the Poor Isn’t a Priority

4. We’re Tired of You Blaming the Culture

For me Church today is so much about telling, controlling the message, filling up space and time with platitudes, references to high level virtues but leaving it very surface level.  This nails the problems with Church in my view.  I have to give a shout out to the younger generation for highlighting this stuff. 

 

Church is far less about coming together to speak one with another about the welfare of our souls (thus no one's listening) and more about trying to set parameters around each other so we all feel more obliged to get in line.  I know there's been some negative views about this info here, but I'd disagree. 

 

[stemelbow]

1 minute ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Trust me, the church is well aware that it is hemorrhaging its millennials...it also knows that so far all attempts to curb the outflow have been unsuccessful...but new steps are in the works in the hope that they can avert disaster with the millennial generation.  That's all I can say...probably said more than I should but I need to protect a source

 

 

Well...sheeeshh...that's rather cryptic.  I wish you could tell us more.  Protect a source from what? 

[CA Steve]

11 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I think that's an excellent point.  If that's really the problem though, i think it also highlights a major flaw in millennial thinking.  Experience, and the knowledge and wisdom that comes with it, takes time.  It's not an equality that can just be bestowed or granted.  

All speculation on my part since I am not part of that generation but I suspect that equality is measured differently by the social media generation, that it is judged on what is said more than who is saying it. So the fact the one person typing has more experience, knowledge and wisdom than others is irrelevant to the reader. The text is judged purely on what is said.

Also, every generation goes thru a point where the leadership of the church is made up of people who were raised in completely different social cultures. Other generations were able to navigate that though millennials seem unable to do so (if your thinking above is correct).   Why?

I'm wondering, is it the same reason that we are constantly reading about millennials that still live at home because they won't take a job they don't love or that they feel is beneath them or that doesn't offer them the same standard of living as their parents have in their 40s, 50s, and 60s?  Do millennials have a weird sense of entitlement or an inflated understanding of their own awesomeness that other generations, raised differently, didn't suffer from as much?  

Is it something else?

I have no idea and you probably don't either but your post brought the questions to my mind.

I think millennial's are navigating it fine.  Every generation has a view that the previous generation is problematic. I am sure the millenial's will reach the stage that they also lament how poorly their kids and grand kids are doing. If we are going to communicate better with them we are going to have to do it on their terms, otherwise they will just ignore us. The church today is quite different than it was in my parents time and I believe it will continue to change. I think those who focus on blaming the next generation are just contributing to the problem. I also think we are witnessing, due to the internet, more radical social change than is usual.

[Johnnie Cake]

37 minutes ago, bluebell said:

What struck me is that the bolded parts of your post are what everyone desires.  Earlier generations wanted this; I don't think it's unique to millennials.  So my questions are-

~Is there something about our current church culture that is no longer providing this for the younger generations of adults when it used to in earlier eras?

~Is there something in millennial culture/understanding/way-of-being-in-the-world/psyche that makes them more needy than previous generations?

 

Millennials have fully embraced the LGBT communities, they have friends who are gay and have no problems loving and accepting their friends as equals just as they are.  They've fully embraced marriage equality.  They don't accept the churches position of having gays held to a different standard in life then heterosexuals have...for millennials equal = equal

[JulieM]

31 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Yes, Millenials have different expectations than other generations. I don't think that is necessarily a negative thing, but it does require some adjustments.

I agree.  I visited a young adult ward last week (with a friend who didn't want to go alone for the first time).

The SS lesson turned to the topic of tithing and I was shocked to see how openly they discussed how many don't and won't pay it until the church is more open with them about their finances.

So many said things like "look at all the scandals with charities out there", etc.  The teacher brought the comments into the lesson and handled it well, but I know no one in my home ward (older) people would ever feel comfortable making those comments even if that's how they feel.

I can't remember ever thinking that at their age (wanting more financial transparency).  So yes, I do think they have different or more expectations of the leaders than past generations.

(This also goes along with your #6 in the OP.)

Edited February 23, 2017 by JulieM

[bluebell]

21 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

While it's true that wisdom is often developed over time, there are often artificial barriers that limit participation. It's not the Millenial's think they know everything and that older generations know nothing, but rather they recognize they offer a different perspective and want to be a part of the conversation. Unfortunately they are often left out.

If someone is living at home into their 40-60's they are not Millenials  They're too old.

I don't think it's about a false sense of entitlement, rather a recognition that they should have a place at the table, but don't.

First paragraph-  Like i said before, I think that every generation has wanted to be a part of the conversations and that's not unique to millennials.  I'm sure sometimes they are left out, just like sometimes previous generations were.  What makes previous generations more able to handle being left out than millennials seem to be?

Second paragraph-  I was speaking about the parents being in their 40s, 50s, and 60s, not the kids.  

Third paragraph-  Again, don't you think that all generations believed they should have a place at the table even though they sometimes didn't?

[bluebell]

21 minutes ago, mapman said:

From my point of view, the whole nation has kind of gone crazy and unwilling to listen to each other or to reason, and it isn't fair to blame it on just the millennials. Also, for a lot of millennials there really is less economic opportunity than previous generations. Most of us don't actually live at home, and probably work just as hard as any other generation, but often get paid less, have more student debt, their degree means less, and economic inequality is more stark now than ever in living memory.

I think that's probably true.  Our society is much more polarized and extreme, in almost every way, than it ever has been.  For example, like you said, millennials have had a very tough job market to navigate.  They are also more millennial millionaires than Gen-X millionaires though.   Extremes.  

I think it's a culture that is hard on everyone, just for different reasons.

 

[HappyJackWagon]

10 minutes ago, bluebell said:

First paragraph-  Like i said before, I think that every generation has wanted to be a part of the conversations and that's not unique to millennials.  I'm sure sometimes they are left out, just like sometimes previous generations were.  What makes previous generations more able to handle being left out than millennials seem to be?

Second paragraph-  I was speaking about the parents being in their 40s, 50s, and 60s, not the kids.  

Third paragraph-  Again, don't you think that all generations believed they should have a place at the table even though they sometimes didn't?

Probably. But older generations had greater respect for the tradition and cultural norms. They had a deeper respect for authority. That has been changing and we can definitely see it in millenials. Millenials don't just want a seat at the table, they expect it and unless someone can articulate why they shouldn't have a seat, they will reject the institution that doesn't embrace their full participation.

[bluebell]

19 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Millennials have fully embraced the LGBT communities, they have friends who are gay and have no problems loving and accepting their friends as equals just as they are.  They've fully embraced marriage equality.  They don't accept the churches position of having gays held to a different standard in life then heterosexuals have...for millennials equal = equal

I think this is probably one of the biggest reasons that millennials struggle in the church.   

[JulieM]

26 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Trust me, the church is well aware that it is hemorrhaging its millennials...it also knows that so far all attempts to curb the outflow have been unsuccessful...but new steps are in the works in the hope that they can avert disaster with the millennial generation.  That's all I can say...probably said more than I should but I need to protect a source.

Well, that's intriguing!  Please post more about that when you can!!!

[Ouagadougou]

1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

A discussion yesterday reminded me of this article and I'm curious about your thoughts. While some will claim that Millenials are leaving because they are lazy, self-centered, non-resilient etc, I think there is a lot more going on here. This Article lists 12 Reasons Millenials are Over Church. Some reasons are self-explanatory but others require a little context so I encourage you to read the article if you don't understand the point. This phenomena with Millenials is in no way limited to our church, but rather is a cultural shift to which all churches need to adapt.

 

1. Nobody’s Listening to Us

2. We’re Sick of Hearing About Values & Mission Statements

3. Helping the Poor Isn’t a Priority

4. We’re Tired of You Blaming the Culture

5. The “You Can’t Sit With Us” Affect

6. Distrust & Misallocation of Resources

7. We Want to Be Mentored, Not Preached At

8. We Want to Feel Valued

9. We Want You to Talk to Us About Controversial Issues (Because No One Is)

10. The Public Perception

11. Stop Talking About Us (Unless You’re Actually Going to Do Something)

12. You’re Failing to Adapt

http://www.recklesslyalive.com/12-reasons-millennials-are-over-church/

It seems to me that without significant adaptation, churches in general, and the LDS church in particular, will lose the majority of a generation which will be difficult to regain. I'm curious what kind of adaptation you feel would be useful.

If you view adaptation as wrong, why?

So much information is available today, so I don't think the church can paint the correlated narrative it has for the last fifty years.  With regard to controversial issues, IMO, the church has only really scrapped the surface in terms of actually addressing, identifying and reconciling some of its dark history.  A few church essays that don't really accept any responsibility obviously do not sit well with many (to include the younger generations).  

IMO, church leadership is out of touch with reality on some issues, especially as it relates to Millenials.  A prime example is listed below:

http://www.ldsdaily.com/church-lds/president-dieter-f-uchtdorf-compares-seer-stone-cell-phones/

Do they really expect Millenials to believe a seer stone is just like an iPhone?  Such rhetoric might have worked 40 years ago...but not today.  

 

[stemelbow]

4 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I think this is probably one of the biggest reasons that millennials struggle in the church.   

We cant' limit this to millennials.  I think like many of us, they hear that we love everyone in Church, and then hear that followed up with confusing messages about how we must fight against certain types, like homosexuals and intellectuals and liberals and atheists and Baptists and such.  Mentioning "love" at church often comes off as empty appeals...sadly.  Maybe millennials notice this more, but many of us struggle with it, no doubt. 

[Johnnie Cake]

I also get the sense that (speaking with a very board brush) millennials bristle at the control the church exerts in their life.  The private bishop worthiness interviews, the control over dress standards, the modesty standards (as if exposing bare shoulders is being immodest), the non transparency with church finances (someone else mentioned this)  Bottom line millennials reject being micro managed by the church...and don't hold the same respect for authority that past generations have held...they're the fisrt generation to actually stand up to the church and push back on some of its violations of personal boundaries. I'm even aware of active temple recommend holding millennials who Gasp...drink coffee and frequently enter Starbuck's... oh sin of sin. Edit to add...that many millennials also disregard the churches directive to avoid Movies rated higher than PG-13...the watch what they want when they want where they want.

I've even heard of millennials paying tithing on net or on increase instead of on gross income....it seems they see a lot more blurred lines than past generations

Edited February 23, 2017 by Johnnie Cake

[hope_for_things]

2 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

A discussion yesterday reminded me of this article and I'm curious about your thoughts. While some will claim that Millenials are leaving because they are lazy, self-centered, non-resilient etc, I think there is a lot more going on here. This Article lists 12 Reasons Millenials are Over Church. Some reasons are self-explanatory but others require a little context so I encourage you to read the article if you don't understand the point. This phenomena with Millenials is in no way limited to our church, but rather is a cultural shift to which all churches need to adapt.

 

1. Nobody’s Listening to Us

2. We’re Sick of Hearing About Values & Mission Statements

3. Helping the Poor Isn’t a Priority

4. We’re Tired of You Blaming the Culture

5. The “You Can’t Sit With Us” Affect

6. Distrust & Misallocation of Resources

7. We Want to Be Mentored, Not Preached At

8. We Want to Feel Valued

9. We Want You to Talk to Us About Controversial Issues (Because No One Is)

10. The Public Perception

11. Stop Talking About Us (Unless You’re Actually Going to Do Something)

12. You’re Failing to Adapt

http://www.recklesslyalive.com/12-reasons-millennials-are-over-church/

It seems to me that without significant adaptation, churches in general, and the LDS church in particular, will lose the majority of a generation which will be difficult to regain. I'm curious what kind of adaptation you feel would be useful.

If you view adaptation as wrong, why?

Thanks Happy, very interesting article.  I'm putting my business person's hat on for a moment since this is my profession.  When customers stop finding value in the products that corporations sell, then it is essential for those corporations to shift to the needs of their customers to stay competitive.  

I have a theory about the current trends of Mormonism and this is based on my reading of the tea leaves (herbal tea leaves of course).  My theory is that tithing revenues are either flat or declining today in 2017 as the growth rate for people in the USA and western Europe has flattened out.  And its possible that tithing revenues are actually declining as older generations are replaced by younger generations who make less money or might be less inclined to pay tithing on their gross incomes.  

What I see the church doing is investing its currently large assets into real estate and other business ventures.  They also must see the trends for declining revenues and are trying to establish a substantial investment base as this trend will only continue.  As the decline continues in western nations and the growth of new converts comes largely from developing countries where people make much less money gross tithing revenues will continue to decline. 

What can the church do?  They will be forced to either make changes and respond in ways to attract the Millennials and younger generations of people in the West, or they will see their tithing revenues continue to decline, and the church will become less relevant, even with the real estate assets and other investments that they've made.  I do have hopes that some visionary leaders will wake up to these trends and start to steer the ship in the right direction, but I'm not entirely confident they will make changes quickly enough to have a huge impact on the trends that we're seeing today.  

[JLHPROF]

2 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

A discussion yesterday reminded me of this article and I'm curious about your thoughts. While some will claim that Millenials are leaving because they are lazy, self-centered, non-resilient etc, I think there is a lot more going on here. This Article lists 12 Reasons Millenials are Over Church. Some reasons are self-explanatory but others require a little context so I encourage you to read the article if you don't understand the point. This phenomena with Millenials is in no way limited to our church, but rather is a cultural shift to which all churches need to adapt.

 

1. Nobody’s Listening to Us

2. We’re Sick of Hearing About Values & Mission Statements

3. Helping the Poor Isn’t a Priority

4. We’re Tired of You Blaming the Culture

5. The “You Can’t Sit With Us” Affect

6. Distrust & Misallocation of Resources

7. We Want to Be Mentored, Not Preached At

8. We Want to Feel Valued

9. We Want You to Talk to Us About Controversial Issues (Because No One Is)

10. The Public Perception

11. Stop Talking About Us (Unless You’re Actually Going to Do Something)

12. You’re Failing to Adapt

http://www.recklesslyalive.com/12-reasons-millennials-are-over-church/

It seems to me that without significant adaptation, churches in general, and the LDS church in particular, will lose the majority of a generation which will be difficult to regain. I'm curious what kind of adaptation you feel would be useful.

If you view adaptation as wrong, why?

For me "adaptation" would mean changing the methodology by which the message is presented.  Completely ok with that.

For them "adaptation" means changing the message.  That we should not do.

[JulieM]

19 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

What can the church do?  They will be forced to either make changes and respond in ways to attract the Millennials and younger generations of people in the West, or they will see their tithing revenues continue to decline, and the church will become less relevant, even with the real estate assets and other investments that they've made.  I do have hopes that some visionary leaders will wake up to these trends and start to steer the ship in the right direction, but I'm not entirely confident they will make changes quickly enough to have a huge impact on the trends that we're seeing today.  

I agree.  They very definitely should consider removing the new policy regarding those in a SSM and the children involved in those homes.  That's a huge stumbling block for many of the millennials and the youth too.  

Many simply do not want to be associated with or support a religion that treats their LGBT members in this manner.

Edited February 23, 2017 by JulieM

[HappyJackWagon]

5 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

For me "adaptation" would mean changing the methodology by which the message is presented.  Completely ok with that.

For them "adaptation" means changing the message.  That we should not do.

I think most of these 12 points are about method, not doctrine. As such, many of the traditional approaches and policies about worship could be changed. Of course, not everyone wants change. So how could things shift to meet the needs of both the traditionalists who like things the way they are, and others like (Millenials) who would respond better to a different religious approach?

[bluebell]

3 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Probably. But older generations had greater respect for the tradition and cultural norms. They had a deeper respect for authority. That has been changing and we can definitely see it in millenials. Millenials don't just want a seat at the table, they expect it and unless someone can articulate why they shouldn't have a seat, they will reject the institution that doesn't embrace their full participation.

That's probably true.  I think that millennials are very different from previous generations and that it's partly because they are messed up and partly because they are awesome.  And that's why they struggle in the church, but also why we need them.  I remember reading an older Time Magazine article that had some good stats on Milennials and went looking for it.  I think it outlines some reasons why Millennials are struggling in church but why they will be great for the church if they can hang in there.

The quotes are all from this article in Time Magazine.  My thoughts or summaries are in blue (to hopefully make it less confusing to read).

I think that Millennials are the recipients of some bad parenting philosophies and that it's cause some serious issues for them.  It's not the millennials fault or their parents, but it can't be ignored-

"They got this way partly because, in the 1970s, people wanted to improve kids' chances of success by instilling self-esteem. It turns out that self-esteem is great for getting a job or hooking up at a bar but not so great for keeping a job or a relationship. "It was an honest mistake," says Roy Baumeister, a psychology professor at Florida State University and the editor of Self-Esteem: The Puzzle of Low Self-Regard. "The early findings showed that, indeed, kids with high self-esteem did better in school and were less likely to be in various kinds of trouble. It's just that we've learned later that self-esteem is a result, not a cause." The problem is that when people try to boost self-esteem, they accidentally boost narcissism instead. "Just tell your kids you love them. It's a better message," says Jean Twenge, a psychology professor at San Diego State University, who wrote Generation Me and The Narcissism Epidemic. "When they're little it seems cute to tell them they're special or a princess or a rock star or whatever their T-shirt says. When they're 14 it's no longer cute." All that self-esteem leads them to be disappointed when the world refuses to affirm how great they know they are. "This generation has the highest likelihood of having unmet expectations with respect to their careers and the lowest levels of satisfaction with their careers at the stage that they're at," says Sean Lyons, co-editor of Managing the New Workforce: International Perspectives on the Millennial Generation. "It is sort of a crisis of unmet expectations."

And it's causing them some real problems-

"Here's the cold, hard data: The incidence of narcissistic personality disorder is nearly three times as high for people in their 20s as for the generation that's now 65 or older, according to the National Institutes of Health; 58% more college students scored higher on a narcissism scale in 2009 than in 1982. Millennials got so many participation trophies growing up that a recent study showed that 40% believe they should be promoted every two years, regardless of performance. They are fame-obsessed: three times as many middle school girls want to grow up to be a personal assistant to a famous person as want to be a Senator, according to a 2007 survey; four times as many would pick the assistant job over CEO of a major corporation. They're so convinced of their own greatness that the National Study of Youth and Religion found the guiding morality of 60% of millennials in any situation is that they'll just be able to feel what's right. Their development is stunted: more people ages 18 to 29 live with their parents than with a spouse, according to the 2012 Clark University Poll of Emerging Adults."

"What millennials are most famous for besides narcissism is its effect: entitlement. If you want to sell seminars to middle managers, make them about how to deal with young employees who e-mail the CEO directly and beg off projects they find boring. English teacher David McCullough Jr.'s address last year to Wellesley High School's graduating class, a 12-minute reality check titled "You Are Not Special," has nearly 2 million hits on YouTube. "Climb the mountain so you can see the world, not so the world can see you," McCullough told the graduates. He says nearly all the response to the video has been positive, especially from millennials themselves; the video has 57 likes for every dislike.

Though they're cocky about their place in the world, millennials are also stunted, having prolonged a life stage between teenager and adult that this magazine once called twixters and will now use once again in an attempt to get that term to catch on. The idea of the teenager started in the 1920s; in 1910, only a tiny percentage of kids went to high school, so most people's social interactions were with adults in their family or in the workplace. Now that cell phones allow kids to socialize at every hour--they send and receive an average of 88 texts a day, according to Pew--they're living under the constant influence of their friends. "Peer pressure is anti-intellectual. It is anti-historical. It is anti-eloquence," says Mark Bauerlein, an English professor at Emory, who wrote The Dumbest Generation: How the Digital Age Stupefies Young Americans and Jeopardizes Our Future (Or, Don't Trust Anyone Under 30). "Never before in history have people been able to grow up and reach age 23 so dominated by peers. To develop intellectually you've got to relate to older people, older things: 17-year-olds never grow up if they're just hanging around other 17-year-olds." Of all the objections to Obamacare, not a lot of people argued against parents' need to cover their kids' health insurance until they're 26."

They are so blessed though and are great at finding opportunities and working toward personal growth-

"For almost all of human history, almost everyone was a small-scale farmer. And then people were farmers and factory workers. Nobody gets very much fulfillment from either of those things," says Jeffrey Arnett, a psychology professor at Clark University, who invented the phrase emerging adulthood, which people foolishly use instead of the catchy twixters. Twixters put off life choices because they can choose from a huge array of career options, some of which, like jobs in social media, didn't exist 10 years ago. What idiot would try to work her way up at a company when she's going to have an average of seven jobs before age 26? Because of online dating, Facebook circles and the ability to connect with people internationally, they no longer have to marry someone from their high school class or even their home country. Because life expectancy is increasing so rapidly and technology allows women to get pregnant in their 40s, they're more free to postpone big decisions. The median age for an American woman's first marriage went from 20.6 in 1967 to 26.9 in 2011.

In fact, a lot of what counts as typical millennial behavior is how rich kids have always behaved. The Internet has democratized opportunity for many young people, giving them access and information that once belonged mostly to the wealthy. When I was growing up in the 1980s, I thought I would be a lawyer, since that was the best option I knew about for people who sucked at math in my middle-class suburb, but I saw a lot more options once I got to Stanford. "Previously if you wanted to be a writer but didn't know anyone who is in publishing, it was just, Well, I won't write. But now it's, Wait, I know someone who knows someone," says Jane Buckingham, who studies workplace changes as founder of Trendera, a consumer-insights firm. "I hear story after story of people high up in an organization saying, 'Well, this person just e-mailed me and asked me for an hour of my time, and for whatever reason I gave it to them.' So the great thing is that they do feel entitled to all of this, so they'll be more innovative and more willing to try new things and they'll do all this cool stuff."

It can cause problems between Millennials and earlier generations but it can also bring us closer together-

"Because millennials don't respect authority, they also don't resent it. That's why they're the first teens who aren't rebelling. They're not even sullen. "I grew up watching Peanuts, where you didn't even see the parents. They were that 'Wah-wah' voice. And MTV was always a parent-free zone," says MTV president Stephen Friedman, 43, who now includes parents in nearly all the channel's reality shows. "One of our research studies early on said that a lot of this audience outsources their superego to their parents. The most simple decision of should I do this or should I do that--our audience will check in with their parents." It's hard to hate your parents when they also listen to rap and watch Jon Stewart.

In fact, many parents of millennials would proudly call their child-rearing style peer-enting. "They're going after what they want. It can be a little irritating that they want to be on the next rung so quickly. Maybe I'm partly responsible for it. I like this generation, so I have no issues with that."

They are different, but that doesn't mean they are worse.  Every generation has some issues. In a lot of ways they are amazing but i think sometimes, when it comes to their relationship with the church, that because their expectations for life don't work in church, it causes problems.

Millennials are able to use their leverage to negotiate much better contracts with the traditional institutions they do still join. Although the armed forces had to lower the physical standards for recruits and make boot camp less intensive, Gary Stiteler, who has been an Army recruiter for about 15 years, is otherwise more impressed with millennials than any other group he's worked with. "The generation that we enlisted when I first started recruiting was sort of do, do, do. This generation is think, think about it before you do it," he says. "This generation is three to four steps ahead. They're coming in saying, 'I want to do this, then when I'm done with this, I want to do this.'"

Here's something even all the psychologists who fret over their narcissism studies agree about: millennials are nice. They have none of that David Letterman irony and Gen X ennui. "The positivism has surprised me. The Internet was always 50-50 positive and negative. And now it's 90-10," says Shane Smith, the 43-year-old CEO of Vice, which adjusted from being a Gen X company in print to a millennial company once it started posting videos online, which are viewed by a much younger audience. Millennials are more accepting of differences, not just among gays, women and minorities but in everyone. "There are many, many subcultures, and you can dip into them and search around. I prefer that to you're either supermainstream or a riot grrrl," says Tavi Gevinson, a 17-year-old who runs Rookie, an online fashion magazine, from her bedroom when she's not at school. It's hard, in other words, to join the counterculture when there's no culture. "There's not this us-vs.-them thing now. Maybe that's why millennials don't rebel," she says.

They have so much to offer but because they offer it in a different way than the other generation is used to, we butt heads.  I think we see this in the church-

But if you need the ultimate proof that millennials could be a great force for positive change, know this: Tom Brokaw, champion of the Greatest Generation, loves millennials. He calls them the Wary Generation, and he thinks their cautiousness in life decisions is a smart response to their world. "Their great mantra has been: Challenge convention. Find new and better ways of doing things.

We are a church that does not like to challenge convention and I bet many millennials feel stifled sometimes.  I think this paragraph in the Time article sums it up perfectly-

"So here's a more rounded picture of millennials than the one I started with. All of which I also have data for. They're earnest and optimistic. They embrace the system. They are pragmatic idealists, tinkerers more than dreamers, life hackers. Their world is so flat that they have no leaders, which is why revolutions from Occupy Wall Street to Tahrir Square have even less chance than previous rebellions. They want constant approval--they post photos from the dressing room as they try on clothes. They have massive fear of missing out and have an acronym for everything (including FOMO). They're celebrity obsessed but don't respectfully idolize celebrities from a distance. (Thus Us magazine's "They're just like us!" which consists of paparazzi shots of famous people doing everyday things.) They're not into going to church, even though they believe in God, because they don't identify with big institutions; one-third of adults under 30, the highest percentage ever, are religiously unaffiliated. They want new experiences, which are more important to them than material goods. They are cool and reserved and not all that passionate. They are informed but inactive: they hate Joseph Kony but aren't going to do anything about Joseph Kony. They are probusiness. They're financially responsible; although student loans have hit record highs, they have less household and credit-card debt than any previous generation on record--which, admittedly, isn't that hard when you're living at home and using your parents' credit card. They love their phones but hate talking on them."

So, after re-reading the article, I think the answer lies in compromise.  Millennials are wrong to believe that church should be molded around their expectations and their needs alone.  They are wrong to think that church should work the same way (and respond the same way to them) that society tends to work and respond.  The church is not society and should not be confused with society. 

On the flip side though, older generations are wrong to think that Millennials are a broken generation that has little to offer.  We are wrong to think that it's only Millennials that need to change.  There is room for change in the church (a lot of church is tradition and policy) and Millennials are perfectly suited to lead that push and bring us to the next level.  

 

[JLHPROF]

8 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I think most of these 12 points are about method, not doctrine. As such, many of the traditional approaches and policies about worship could be changed. Of course, not everyone wants change. So how could things shift to meet the needs of both the traditionalists who like things the way they are, and others like (Millenials) who would respond better to a different religious approach?

I personally don't care how the Church chooses to present the message.  More technology?  Flexible meeting times?  New Classes?  Podcasts?

But the second they change the message simply to be more inclusive they are heading down a dangerous path.

Edited February 23, 2017 by JLHPROF

[Johnnie Cake]

6 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I think most of these 12 points are about method, not doctrine. As such, many of the traditional approaches and policies about worship could be changed. Of course, not everyone wants change. So how could things shift to meet the needs of both the traditionalists who like things the way they are, and others like (Millenials) who would respond better to a different religious approach?

Again I need to be careful about what I share...but my inside source told me that the church is going to double down on indoctrination, exposure to difficulties, inoculation and an attempt at being more open to their worldview. (The recent Youth fireside broadcasts are part of this attempt) The church is in an impossible position when it comes to accommodating Millennials...and from my perspective they are actually going to increase the amount of micro management that millennials abhor...which can only act as a wedge in driving them away.  This next part is my personal opinion:  I believe that these prophets are at a loss as what to do...they'll make several attempts to keep them in the fold by pushing multiple programs to see what if anything sticks. It will be fun to watch as each program is released and to see what if anything works

[HappyJackWagon]

3 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Again I need to be careful about what I share...but my inside source told me that the church is going to double down on indoctrination, exposure to difficulties, inoculation and an attempt at being more open to their worldview. (The recent Youth fireside broadcasts are part of this attempt) The church is in an impossible position when it comes to accommodating Millennials...and from my perspective they are actually going to increase the amount of micro management that millennials abhor...which can only act as a wedge in driving them away.  This next part is my personal opinion:  I believe that these prophets are at a loss as what to do...they'll make several attempts to keep them in the fold by pushing multiple programs to see what if anything sticks. It will be fun to watch as each program is released and to see what if anything works

It's an interesting conundrum. There have been studies that show high demand churches grow faster and are more stable, yet Millenials don't respond well to the high-demand environment.

[Johnnie Cake]

2 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

It's an interesting conundrum. There have been studies that show high demand churches grow faster and are more stable, yet Millenials don't respond well to the high-demand environment.

Exactly.  It's also why we have seen such a huge rise in Millennial Missionaries coming home early due to their not be able to adapt to the high demand environment of Missionary life