Robert F. Smith Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 Humans have already been to the Moon, and NASA plans a manned mission to Mars for the 2030s. Now the United Arab Emirates have proposed placing a permanent colony on Mars by 2117, and Elon Musk seems to be on the same wavelength. Does this pose any problem for LDS theology, or for any other religious belief system? Do we need to develop some sort of planetary or galactic theology? Or is it already there in the Book of Abraham and Doctrine & Covenants? Ryan Sedmak, “Obama plans to send humans to Mars by 2030s,” Mashable, Oct 11, 2016, online at http://mashable.com/2016/10/11/sending-humans-to-mars-by-2030/?utm_campaign=Mash-BD-Synd-Yahoo-Science-Full&utm_cid=Mash-BD-Synd-Yahoo-Science-Full#6zcSaKAx6kqz . Miriam Kramer, “The United Arab Emirates wants to build a city on Mars,” Mashable, Feb 19, 2017, online at https://www.yahoo.com/news/united-arab-emirates-wants-build-180000012.html ,
JLHPROF Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 I would say if we are able to settle other planets using man's technology that yes, it would pose a problem for our theology. I am not convinced we will ever get that far technologically.
Duncan Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 I can give some referrals of people to live on Mars, Martian missionary work! 1
thesometimesaint Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 A manned mission to Mars is very feasible by 2030. A permanent settlement, manned by scientists, maybe a little longer. The environment on Mars isn't conducive to life as we know it. However underground settlements would solve some of the problems. Missionary work would be many years, if ever, away. Technology isn't the problem it is the potential interpersonal conflicts that are.
Calm Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) Missionary work can be done by the internet anywhere there are computers these days. Why not Mars? Eventually a priesthood holder would be among the settlers and could baptize any converts. Not like that hasn't happened before in areas missionaries didn't have access to yet (Book of Mormon doing the converting). I don't see it as an issue for the Sol system, just extend the boundaries. Might be interesting if we ever got interstellar before Christ coming. Edited February 21, 2017 by Calm 2
Robert F. Smith Posted February 21, 2017 Author Posted February 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Duncan said: I can give some referrals of people to live on Mars, Martian missionary work! Taking it to the stars. 1
mfbukowski Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 2 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: Humans have already been to the Moon, and NASA plans a manned mission to Mars for the 2030s. Now the United Arab Emirates have proposed placing a permanent colony on Mars by 2117, and Elon Musk seems to be on the same wavelength. Does this pose any problem for LDS theology, or for any other religious belief system? Do we need to develop some sort of planetary or galactic theology? Or is it already there in the Book of Abraham and Doctrine & Covenants? Ryan Sedmak, “Obama plans to send humans to Mars by 2030s,” Mashable, Oct 11, 2016, online at http://mashable.com/2016/10/11/sending-humans-to-mars-by-2030/?utm_campaign=Mash-BD-Synd-Yahoo-Science-Full&utm_cid=Mash-BD-Synd-Yahoo-Science-Full#6zcSaKAx6kqz . Miriam Kramer, “The United Arab Emirates wants to build a city on Mars,” Mashable, Feb 19, 2017, online at https://www.yahoo.com/news/united-arab-emirates-wants-build-180000012.html , No problem whatsoever. Same as being in any other place on earth. 2
mfbukowski Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Duncan said: I can give some referrals of people to live on Mars, Martian missionary work! We have many in LA who are already there, but they have left their bodies on earth. 4
The Nehor Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 By theological problem do you mean they lose their souls when going to Mars or something?
CV75 Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 8 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: Humans have already been to the Moon, and NASA plans a manned mission to Mars for the 2030s. Now the United Arab Emirates have proposed placing a permanent colony on Mars by 2117, and Elon Musk seems to be on the same wavelength. Does this pose any problem for LDS theology, or for any other religious belief system? Do we need to develop some sort of planetary or galactic theology? Or is it already there in the Book of Abraham and Doctrine & Covenants? Ryan Sedmak, “Obama plans to send humans to Mars by 2030s,” Mashable, Oct 11, 2016, online at http://mashable.com/2016/10/11/sending-humans-to-mars-by-2030/?utm_campaign=Mash-BD-Synd-Yahoo-Science-Full&utm_cid=Mash-BD-Synd-Yahoo-Science-Full#6zcSaKAx6kqz . Miriam Kramer, “The United Arab Emirates wants to build a city on Mars,” Mashable, Feb 19, 2017, online at https://www.yahoo.com/news/united-arab-emirates-wants-build-180000012.html , "...and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do." But then again: "Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech."
rongo Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 8 hours ago, JLHPROF said: I would say if we are able to settle other planets using man's technology that yes, it would pose a problem for our theology. Why? This is really a head-scratcher for me. What possible problem for our theology would it pose if we were to visit and/or colonize other planets? 2
Robert F. Smith Posted February 21, 2017 Author Posted February 21, 2017 1 hour ago, rongo said: Why? This is really a head-scratcher for me. What possible problem for our theology would it pose if we were to visit and/or colonize other planets? Some might argue that we are supposed to be an Earth-bound species, and that all the end-time prophecies apply only to Earth. Would the Millennium, for example, apply to Mars as well? Even the three degrees of glory include a terrestrial zone as the second level, and celestial as the third level. Where does the Martian level fit in, if at all? Is intersteller travel only to be accomplished by celestial beings -- the fastest mode of travel, and the most effective means of colonization of other worlds?
CA Steve Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 Or if we got to Mars and discovered the long extinct remnants of non-humanoid civilization, or more likely we received communications from outside our galaxy from such a civilization. 1
JLHPROF Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 2 hours ago, rongo said: Why? This is really a head-scratcher for me. What possible problem for our theology would it pose if we were to visit and/or colonize other planets? Well, how about this one. According to Mormon theology God resides on a Celestialized world. If travel between planets were possible, is it conceivable that we could reach God by means of propulsion rather than perfection?
Popular Post Gray Posted February 21, 2017 Popular Post Posted February 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: Well, how about this one. According to Mormon theology God resides on a Celestialized world. If travel between planets were possible, is it conceivable that we could reach God by means of propulsion rather than perfection? No. The Kolobian star system is protected by legions of angels piloting the latest model of Kokaubeam Class star fighters. 5
Marmonboy Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 I'm not sure it's relevant to the discussion, but in one of Heinlein's stories, I forget which one, there is a passing reference to an LDS temple on the moon.
JLHPROF Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Gray said: No. The Kolobian star system is protected by legions of angels piloting the latest model of Kokaubeam Class star fighters. 1
Johnnie Cake Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 11 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: Humans have already been to the Moon, and NASA plans a manned mission to Mars for the 2030s. Now the United Arab Emirates have proposed placing a permanent colony on Mars by 2117, and Elon Musk seems to be on the same wavelength. Does this pose any problem for LDS theology, or for any other religious belief system? Do we need to develop some sort of planetary or galactic theology? Or is it already there in the Book of Abraham and Doctrine & Covenants? Ryan Sedmak, “Obama plans to send humans to Mars by 2030s,” Mashable, Oct 11, 2016, online at http://mashable.com/2016/10/11/sending-humans-to-mars-by-2030/?utm_campaign=Mash-BD-Synd-Yahoo-Science-Full&utm_cid=Mash-BD-Synd-Yahoo-Science-Full#6zcSaKAx6kqz . Miriam Kramer, “The United Arab Emirates wants to build a city on Mars,” Mashable, Feb 19, 2017, online at https://www.yahoo.com/news/united-arab-emirates-wants-build-180000012.html , When it comes to matters beyond earth, LDS prophets do not have a very good track record. Brigham Young believed that the Sun was inhabited...as silly as that seems. Quote So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain. - Journal of Discourses Joseph Smith claimed that the moon was occupied by a colony of Quakers According to Oliver Huntington: Quote As far back as 1837, I know that he [Joseph Smith] said the moon was inhabited by men and women the same as this earth, and that they lived to a greater age than we do -- that they live generally to near the age of a 1,000 years. According to FAIR...this view was also held by Brigham Young as well as Hyrum Smith and Joseph Fielding Smith claimed that man would never walk on the moon Quote the first edition of his work Answers to Gospel Questions, published in 1957, Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: The Savior said that preceding his coming there would be signs in the heavens. No doubt there will be appearances of commotion among the heavenly bodies. We are informed by prophecy that the earth will reel to and fro. This will make it appear like the stars are falling. The sun will be darkened and the moon look like blood. All of these wonders will take place before Christ comes. Naturally the wonders in the heavens that man has created will be numbered among the signs which have been predicted—the airplanes, the guided missiles, and man-made planets that revolve around the earth. Keep it in mind, however, that such man-made planets belong to this earth, and it is doubtful that man will ever be permitted to make any instrument or ship to travel through space and visit the moon or any distant planet. [1] A few years later, at a Honolulu stake conference in 1961, Elder Smith reiterated this idea, We will never get a man into space. This earth is man's sphere and it was never intended that he should get away from it. The moon is a superior planet to the earth and it was never intended that man should go there. You can write it down in your books that this will never happen. [2] According to Smith's grandson, Joseph Fielding McConkie, Elder Smith felt that travelling to other worlds and discovering that they had the same Savior would eliminate the need for faith: He reasoned that because the atonement that Christ worked out on this earth applies to all the creations of the Father, that our getting to other worlds and discovering that they had the same Savior and the same plan of salvation would dispense with the necessity of our accepting the gospel on the basis of faith"[3] Probably best to stick to their knitting here on earth 1
Robert F. Smith Posted February 21, 2017 Author Posted February 21, 2017 13 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: When it comes to matters beyond earth, LDS prophets do not have a very good track record. Brigham Young believed that the Sun was inhabited...as silly as that seems. Joseph Smith claimed that the moon was occupied by a colony of Quakers According to Oliver Huntington: According to FAIR...this view was also held by Brigham Young as well as Hyrum Smith and Joseph Fielding Smith claimed that man would never walk on the moon Quote According to Smith's grandson, Joseph Fielding McConkie, Elder Smith felt that travelling to other worlds and discovering that they had the same Savior would eliminate the need for faith: He reasoned that because the atonement that Christ worked out on this earth applies to all the creations of the Father, that our getting to other worlds and discovering that they had the same Savior and the same plan of salvation would dispense with the necessity of our accepting the gospel on the basis of faith"[3] Probably best to stick to their knitting here on earth I have always thought it tendentious to claim that Jesus' sacrifice applied to other worlds. Why wouldn't each world have its own Savior? Anyhow, thanks for getting into the spirit of things here, Johnnie.
Robert F. Smith Posted February 21, 2017 Author Posted February 21, 2017 37 minutes ago, Marmonboy said: I'm not sure it's relevant to the discussion, but in one of Heinlein's stories, I forget which one, there is a passing reference to an LDS temple on the moon. Perhaps you refer to his Stranger in a Strange Land, which has other Mormon references.
Marmonboy Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 9 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: Perhaps you refer to his Stranger in a Strange Land, which has other Mormon references. I thought it was one of his shorter works. Heinlein seemed to like Mormons, as there are references to them in several works.
JLHPROF Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: When it comes to matters beyond earth, LDS prophets do not have a very good track record. Brigham Young believed that the Sun was inhabited...as silly as that seems.Why is that silly? Do we know for certain the sun isn't inhabited? Have we actually been there? Maybe at night? Joseph Smith claimed that the moon was occupied by a colony of Quakers According to Oliver Huntington:This claimed teaching of Joseph has little backing. Just a 3rd hand account decades after he died. D&C 88: 37 And there are many kingdoms; for there is no space in the which there is no kingdom; and there is no kingdom in which there is no space, either a greater or a lesser kingdom. As for Joseph Fielding Smith - his claim about never travelling to the moon may have been a debunked opinion but the principle he espouses that "this earth is man's sphere and it was never intended that he should get away from it" is the theological question we should be looking at. Edited February 21, 2017 by JLHPROF 1
thesometimesaint Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 With JFS it was at the very beginnings the space race. So I just chalk it up to his being wrong. Anywho he apologized for the comment, and I'm willing to just move on. 1
longview Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 12 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: Does this pose any problem for LDS theology, or for any other religious belief system? Do we need to develop some sort of planetary or galactic theology? Or is it already there in the Book of Abraham and Doctrine & Covenants? No. God is in charge. He is the Presiding Authority. Yes, BoA and D&C very amply cover that whole aspect. One of my favorite columnist (blogger), Adrian Vance, says that taxpayers the world over would be far better served (a thousand times over) if we were to focus our exploring and adventuring in the deep reaches of the oceans (such as the Mariana Trench). We need to build 'deep' posts to examine the geology, minerals, stratification, and a whole host of potential discoveries waiting down there that will BOGGLE the mind. We could stumble across sunken cities/civilizations (BoM cities, Atlantis, etc). 1
waveslider Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 12 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: Humans have already been to the Moon, and NASA plans a manned mission to Mars for the 2030s. Now the United Arab Emirates have proposed placing a permanent colony on Mars by 2117, and Elon Musk seems to be on the same wavelength. Does this pose any problem for LDS theology, or for any other religious belief system? Do we need to develop some sort of planetary or galactic theology? Or is it already there in the Book of Abraham and Doctrine & Covenants? Ryan Sedmak, “Obama plans to send humans to Mars by 2030s,” Mashable, Oct 11, 2016, online at http://mashable.com/2016/10/11/sending-humans-to-mars-by-2030/?utm_campaign=Mash-BD-Synd-Yahoo-Science-Full&utm_cid=Mash-BD-Synd-Yahoo-Science-Full#6zcSaKAx6kqz . Miriam Kramer, “The United Arab Emirates wants to build a city on Mars,” Mashable, Feb 19, 2017, online at https://www.yahoo.com/news/united-arab-emirates-wants-build-180000012.html , I personally don't think that this will happen in the 2030s because according to the regular 206 year patterns of global cooling caused by the Sun's inactivity we will be struggling so hard to even have enough food and keep disease and pestilence down that to even think about any type of space travel will be just a pipe dream at that time. Food already is in a huge shortage from all the flooding, hail and freezing in the fields, and we are just barely going into the Eddy Minimum. We still have a few more years before it's a full blown mini ice age and no one is preparing just because of political agendas and corrupt scientists perpetuating the false idea that us humans are causing the Earth to warm as they constantly falsify data to try and show that the Earth is warming due to our use of carbon, when in reality it is actually cooling due to the Sun which has always driven our weather. I know I will get a bunch of crap thrown at me for stating this by those who have been completely fooled into believing the myth of Global Warming, but with the internet we can easily see where NOAA and NASA fabricate false temperature data just by looking at the temperature maps of the world that they produce and comparing them to where they do and don't have any data coming in for temperature. It amazes me how many times they have recorded record heat in areas where there are no temperature reading stations at, and by comparing them to real time remote temperature readings that show the opposite of what they are trying to make us all believe. Time will tell for anyone who doesn't believe this, but I'm quite certain that life as we know it won't exist anymore by 2030. We either have to adapt or we won't make it. I hope everyone has their year supplies as food prices climb sky high due to shortened growing seasons. So space flight to Mars will be the least of our concerns by then. 1
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