Falling out of the American mainstream?

[Calm]

1 hour ago, rodheadlee said:

From the eyes of the NVA, we were the terrorist. Pressure at home help bring about the end of that fiasco.

But is the relationship between the Muslim community and the terrorist communities close enough to the relationship between the citizens of the US and their government to assume that what worked in the latter case to change behavior would work in the case of the  Muslim community and not backfire?

Do you think if people moved up to various white supremacists groups' holding and held protest rallies, this would help? (Serious question, not sarcastic)

[thesometimesaint]

The Muslim community in the US, and around the world, has roundly condemned terrorist attacks.

[Calm]

Just as an FYI:

"Customs and Border Patrol told airlines over the weekend the executive order would affect roughly 200 fliers to the U.S. each day."

200 x 180= 36000

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/31/news/companies/us-airlines-trump-immigration-ban/

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

From the eyes of the NVA, we were the terrorist. Pressure at home help bring about the end of that fiasco.

We were not terrorists; we were (worst viewpoint which I personally do not subscribe to) invaders committing war crimes. Very different from terrorism.

[thesometimesaint]

47 minutes ago, Calm said:

Just as an FYI:

"Customs and Border Patrol told airlines over the weekend the executive order would affect roughly 200 fliers to the U.S. each day."

200 x 180= 36000

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/31/news/companies/us-airlines-trump-immigration-ban/

Between 60,000 and 100,000 citizens or resident aliens were effected.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

Between 60,000 and 100,000 citizens or resident aliens were effected.

CFR please.

[thesometimesaint]

SEE

http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-essential-washington-updates-more-than-100-000-visas-revoked-since-1486148132-htmlstory.html

Edited February 6, 2017 by thesometimesaint

[Calm]

1 hour ago, thesometimesaint said:

SEE

http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-essential-washington-updates-more-than-100-000-visas-revoked-since-1486148132-htmlstory.html

Not just links, specific quotes since so often you appear to think something documents when it does not.  Please show where 60,000 or more US citizens or resident aliens are projected to be flying to the US and turned away in the next 180 days, which is what I was referring to.

If you were merely speaking about any effect, please show documentation (your link isn't it) of 60,000-100000 US citizens or resident aliens being affected by the order.

PS:  I insist on quotes now because neither "citizens" nor "resident aliens" nor any variation was reported from what I could tell.  

Edited February 6, 2017 by Calm

[Five Solas]

Curious if anyone else is watching the sci-fi TV series "The Expanse" and finding it vaguely relevant to the thread.  Much more Ridley Scott than Gene Roddenberry, but it bodes well for LDS as they are still around in the 23rd century, still dispatching missionaries with the familiar name-badge.  And they're building the "Nauvoo" - a spaceship that will transport them to another solar system, latter latter-day pioneers.

You can watch it with Amazon Prime (and no, I not just shilling for a local company/client).  No spoilers please, I'm only ~ 6 episodes in. 

:0)

--Erik

PS.  Trying to give the thread a little break from President Trump...

[mfbukowski]

On 1/30/2017 at 8:54 PM, california boy said:

The watershed moment is not the ROTC leaving BYU.  The watershed moment happened long before this latest issue with the church jumping in to support Prop 8.  The church went from a family oriented church and safe place to raise children to a church attacking the rights of the gay community.  That was a very pivotal moment in how others viewed the church. And I think the latest ROTC move is directly related to the aggressive view the church takes towards gays.  The DoD is not dumb.  They know where this whole thing is headed.  And I think most members know where this is all headed as well.  While it is a cup of coffee today, it would be a gay marriage discrimination issue at some point, and the DoD was not willing to wait until then.

I am not saying this is all about the attitude towards gays.  The exact same thing would have happened if the church continued to discriminate against blacks.  But the church changed course.  On the gay issue, there seems to be no intention of ever changing those beliefs against gays.  

When someone mentions the Mormon church, the first thing that comes to people's minds is not family centered church any more.  The first thing that comes to people's minds is an intolerant attitude towards anyone who is gay.  While that is not exactly the church position, it is the public's perception of the Mormon church.  Too many people outside the church have family and friends that are gay.  They are not willing to demonize them in order to embrace the beliefs of the Mormon church.  Less people will continue to accept the rest of the message the church has to offer.  It is a deal breaker to many both within the church and without.  It is a deal breaker with a lot of millennials   And I am sure the church is quite willing to keep that position in place no matter what the cost.

Says who?  Do you listen to the news?

I think it is time for those espousing "liberal" principles to re-evaluate the assumption that "everyone agrees with me" regardless of what side you are on.  I think everyone is bit shocked to find out what "America really thinks" and how repressed the tide of conservatism has been.

Yet we see this assumption still being everywhere- on all the talk shows etc.   People do not seem to be aware that HALF of the voters voted for Trump above those espousing views like yours.   I am as shocked as anyone, frankly.

I honestly do not care much either way but I think perhaps you should not be so smug in the assumption that  you speak for the average American.

Edited February 7, 2017 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

2 hours ago, Five Solas said:

Curious if anyone else is watching the sci-fi TV series "The Expanse" and finding it vaguely relevant to the thread.  Much more Ridley Scott than Gene Roddenberry, but it bodes well for LDS as they are still around in the 23rd century, still dispatching missionaries with the familiar name-badge.  And they're building the "Nauvoo" - a spaceship that will transport them to another solar system, latter latter-day pioneers.

You can watch it with Amazon Prime (and no, I not just shilling for a local company/client).  No spoilers please, I'm only ~ 6 episodes in. 

:0)

--Erik

PS.  Trying to give the thread a little break from President Trump...

Thanks- never heard of it.  Gotta check it out.

[california boy]

5 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Says who?  Do you listen to the news?

I think it is time for those espousing "liberal" principles to re-evaluate the assumption that "everyone agrees with me" regardless of what side you are on.  I think everyone is bit shocked to find out what "America really thinks" and how repressed the tide of conservatism has been.

Yet we see this assumption still being everywhere- on all the talk shows etc.   People do not seem to be aware that HALF of the voters voted for Trump above those espousing views like yours.   I am as shocked as anyone, frankly.

I honestly do not care much either way but I think perhaps you should not be so smug in the assumption that  you speak for the average American.

Once again, you have responded to one of my posts with some snide personal attack.  I think I have been pretty clear that I am unwilling to respond to any of your posts that contain those kinds of remarks.  If you would like to remove the snide remark, I would be happy to respond to your post.  Until then, I wish you only the best.

 

 

[Five Solas]

On 2/7/2017 at 2:22 AM, california boy said:

Once again, you have responded to one of my posts with some snide personal attack.  I think I have been pretty clear that I am unwilling to respond to any of your posts that contain those kinds of remarks.  If you would like to remove the snide remark, I would be happy to respond to your post.  Until then, I wish you only the best.

I wouldn't take it so hard, california boy.  I increasingly doubt those of us on the West Coast (including mfbukowski) are representative of the "average American."  We have it pretty good--let's face it.  And yes, we can come across as being a bit "smug" to those living elsewhere.  Afraid our collective surprise over results last November--serves to prove the point...

--Erik

[california boy]

11 hours ago, Five Solas said:

I wouldn't take it so hard, california boy.  I increasingly doubt those of us on the West Coast (including mfbukowski) are representative of the "average American."  We have it pretty good--let's face it.  And yes, we can come across as being a bit "smug" to those living elsewhere.  Afraid our collective surprise over results last November--serves to prove the point...

--Erik

Erik, for me it is more the continuous personal attacks mfbukowski has decided to level against me.  At some point, I just got tired of it.  I realize that people can get caught up in heated debate.  But when it happens over and over and over again, I finally had enough.  This is a discussion board.  I like the exchange of ideas.  I like that people have a different point of view than I do.  But I see little value in interacting with anyone who is so consistent in personal attacks against me or anyone else on this board.  I can't change his attitudes towards me.  But I can quit putting up with his snide remarks directed at me personally.  When mfbukowski is willing to do that, then I am more than willing to respond to his posts.

[hagoth7]

On 1/29/2017 at 11:42 PM, Five Solas said:

What do folks think?  Is the Air Force ROTC departure from BYU related to a broader trend Peterson wrote about in 2015?  

Yes. (Although I'd rather be wrong about this.)

And under the current regime, you might also see a similar shift, at least temporarily, in the recruiting/promoting activity in other federal agencies.

Similar to how the once-traditional Germanic body guards of early Emperors fell out of favor....at least for a while.

A (?temporary?) shift in the wind.

Edited February 10, 2017 by hagoth7

[hagoth7]

Julius Caesar had a profound and noticeable change of heart not long after his first encounter with Germans...after incorporating a handpicked group of them as his personal bodyguard.

That change of heart was evidenced in how he treated those who considered (and proved) themselves to be his enemies...specifically in the subsequent civil war.

Clemency after clemency. Forgiveness after forgiveness.

And a surprising number of those he forgave resented his kindness. And, according to one biography, that resentment is what led to forgiven senators to conspire to kill him.

"Et tu Brute?"

And Caesar's change of heart is likely, in part, why so many "Jews" (a good number of them actually Nephites) mourned and wept at his funeral pyre in Rome for days on end.
And who was the prophet who warned him to beware the Ides of March? A Jew? A Nephite?

And it was his hastily-dismissed German bodyguard that opened the final door for his death. (Not by their doing...but had they not been dismissed, they would have defended him with their lives, and he would likely have survived.)

(Did I derail the thread sufficiently? If so, perhaps I can call it a day and throw in the towel.)  ;0)

Edited February 11, 2017 by hagoth7

[Jeanne]

On 2/5/2017 at 5:00 PM, Vance said:

Not to worry, the west coast is going to slide into the ocean before the second coming.  The saints will be leaving the area one way or another before that blessed event. 

I have TBM family and friends that won't move to California (even for good government jobs) for this very reason!

[thesometimesaint]

2 hours ago, Jeanne said:

I have TBM family and friends that won't move to California (even for good government jobs) for this very reason!

Depends on what part of California. Everything east of the San Andreas Fault will slide into the Atlantic Ocean.

[hagoth7]

On 2/5/2017 at 0:55 PM, The Nehor said:

...Protesting terror would be like protesting the Soviets in the Second World War. It does not influence the intended target.

Depends on the target...

[hagoth7]

And:

 

[hagoth7]

Thus ends my protest.

(At least for now.)

Or...as some Christians have said, what are Protestants who stop protesting? ;0)

Edited February 10, 2017 by hagoth7

[Vance]

On 2/5/2017 at 8:12 PM, The Nehor said:

That is a stupid comment. Since the ban specifically targets certain individuals of course those individuals were the only ones affected. Were you expecting this ban to cause trains to be derailed or something?

From the hysteria of the progressive left you would get the impression that EVERYONE was affected.

 

But now they have done it.  If any of these "immigrants" should cause something untoward to happen, we know who to blame.

[Vance]

On 2/5/2017 at 8:23 PM, The Nehor said:

Here is a quick fact check on the previous scandals that have supposedly blown open the Climate Change conspiracy:

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/02/nothing-false-about-temperature-data/

 

Ah, just more fake news.

 

 

Edited February 12, 2017 by Vance

[Vance]

On 1/31/2017 at 8:16 PM, The Nehor said:

The irony of course is that only around 3% of climate scientists now accept that human activity is not causing climate change so you are mocking a failed prediction that has more support than your position. That sounds even less scientific.

 

What is not scientific is your 97%.  That number is just more fake news that some progressive leftist pull out of their nether regions.

[Vance]

On 2/6/2017 at 3:23 AM, The Nehor said:

He actually looks much better now that he is out of office.

Amen!!!!!