Christ in The Book of Mormon

[Belshazzar]

I love The Book of Mormon and to me it is an absolutely beautiful book. I love the things that it teaches and it is always amazing to read. However, my testimony in it has been wavering in it for a while with a lot of doubts. For me one of the most difficult things concerning the historicity of The Book of Mormon is the belief that the people in it have of Christ. In the Bible nobody knows about the coming of a savior that will Atone for their sins. They don't really have a belief in an Atoning Messiah or in the Atonement in the time period of the Old Testament. But in the Book of Mormon they do. Can somebody help me with how they have worked through that issue?

[Bobbieaware]

1 hour ago, Belshazzar said:

I love The Book of Mormon and to me it is an absolutely beautiful book. I love the things that it teaches and it is always amazing to read. However, my testimony in it has been wavering in it for a while with a lot of doubts. For me one of the most difficult things concerning the historicity of The Book of Mormon is the belief that the people in it have of Christ. In the Bible nobody knows about the coming of a savior that will Atone for their sins. They don't really have a belief in an Atoning Messiah or in the Atonement in the time period of the Old Testament. But in the Book of Mormon they do. Can somebody help me with how they have worked through that issue?

Read the Book of Matthew and then ask yourself if the Old Testament prophets didn't prophesy of the coming of Christ as the atoning Messiah. Matthew sure believed it.

 

[Belshazzar]

That's something that I always thought as well, but it was common in that time for people to use the scriptures for multiple fulfillments, and so in context the scriptures used in Matthew to to prophecy about Christ weren't originally about Him necessarily

[Bobbieaware]

1 hour ago, Belshazzar said:

I love The Book of Mormon and to me it is an absolutely beautiful book. I love the things that it teaches and it is always amazing to read. However, my testimony in it has been wavering in it for a while with a lot of doubts. For me one of the most difficult things concerning the historicity of The Book of Mormon is the belief that the people in it have of Christ. In the Bible nobody knows about the coming of a savior that will Atone for their sins. They don't really have a belief in an Atoning Messiah or in the Atonement in the time period of the Old Testament. But in the Book of Mormon they do. Can somebody help me with how they have worked through that issue?

Christ disagrees with you. Read the following from Luke 24 and you'll see the Lord Jesus Christ himself testified the Old Testament prophets knew all about him and his atoning mission...

 13 ¶And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem aboutthreescore furlongs.

 14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened.

 15 And it came to pass, that, while they communedtogether and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.

 16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.

 17 And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?

 18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?

 19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:

 20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.

 21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

 22 Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre;

 23 And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.

 24 And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.

 25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

 26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

 27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.  (Luke 24)

Edited October 14, 2016 by Bobbieaware
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[Guest]

2 hours ago, Belshazzar said:

I love The Book of Mormon and to me it is an absolutely beautiful book. I love the things that it teaches and it is always amazing to read. However, my testimony in it has been wavering in it for a while with a lot of doubts. For me one of the most difficult things concerning the historicity of The Book of Mormon is the belief that the people in it have of Christ. In the Bible nobody knows about the coming of a savior that will Atone for their sins. They don't really have a belief in an Atoning Messiah or in the Atonement in the time period of the Old Testament. But in the Book of Mormon they do. Can somebody help me with how they have worked through that issue?

Of course those in the Bible know (or knew) in the coming of the Messiah. Psalms, Proverbs, Isaiah, Daniel, etc. 

[Belshazzar]

But that Messiah that is in Psalms, Isaiah, etc. was just in the view of the Jews a prophesy about a Jewish King that would come and be the King of Israel. 

[Bobbieaware]

31 minutes ago, Belshazzar said:

But that Messiah that is in Psalms, Isaiah, etc. was just in the view of the Jews a prophesy about a Jewish King that would come and be the King of Israel. 

I'm wondering why you didn't comment on my above post wherein I quoted the resurrected Savior (in Luke 24) who testifies the Old Testament prophets did indeed prophesy about him as the atoning Savior of the world. If you don't even believe the testimony of the Savior concerning the Old Testament prophets' knowledge and understanding of Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah, then you're likely going to be stuck with your doubts. Do you also find it hard to believe the New Testament?

Edited October 15, 2016 by Bobbieaware

[Robert F. Smith]

3 hours ago, Belshazzar said:

But that Messiah that is in Psalms, Isaiah, etc. was just in the view of the Jews a prophesy about a Jewish King that would come and be the King of Israel. 

Just a Jewish King?  Who is Zechariah speaking about at Zech 12:10, 13:6, 14:4-10, D&C 45:43-54??  The eschatological, messianic king described in the Bible and at Qumran is the same as described in Christianity.

(MT) Psalm 2:2	(LXX and) Acts 4:26
The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed,	The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, Belshazzar said:

But that Messiah that is in Psalms, Isaiah, etc. was just in the view of the Jews a prophesy about a Jewish King that would come and be the King of Israel. 

Yes, but they were wrong on many things. Just as we are probably wrong in our understanding of some of our prophecy. I see things that I think are as plain as day in the Book of Mormon's prophecies that no one LDS ever seems to say. Either I am terribly wrong or everyone else is. Guess which one I picked?   Those in the past were probably more wrong as they had been without prophetic light for so long.

[Bobbieaware]

6 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Yes, but they were wrong on many things. Just as we are probably wrong in our understanding of some of our prophecy. I see things that I think are as plain as day in the Book of Mormon's prophecies that no one LDS ever seems to say. Either I am terribly wrong or everyone else is. Guess which one I picked?   Those in the past were probably more wrong as they had been without prophetic light for so long.

The resurrectied Savior used the Old Testament to prove to the two disciples on the road to Emmaus that the Old Testament prophets knew beforehand of his divine mission as the atoning and rising Redeemer of the world. But it must also be said that the Book of Mormon makes it clear the Bible we have today has been tampered with, with many "plain and precious" truths and covenants pertaining to the Savior having been outright removed from the text. This dramatic alteration and diminishment of the Bible can also help to explain why, from our point of view, the Nephites SEEMED to know more about the coming and mission of the Savior than the Old Testament prophets did. In fact, the Book of Mormon revelation that the Bible has been tampered with is powerfully supported by the fact that the writings of two messianic Old Testament prophets , Zenos and Zenock, were found on the brass plates but not in our Bible. This deminishment of the Bible by the great and abominable church could help to explain why Christ was able to make a powerful case for his mission, atonement and resurrection by using the Old Testament, an Old Testament that had not as yet been tampered with and diminished by conspiring men.

By the way, I would be very interested if you could kindly point out two or three of the prophecies in the Book of Mormon that you say no member of the Church ever seems to mention.

 

[VideoGameJunkie]

The prophets in the Book of Mormon before Christ's coming already knew HIs name was going to be Jesus Christ. That's pretty impressive.

[strappinglad]

Actually, we don't know what words were used by the Nephites to speak of the Savior . I assume it was not Jesus Christ because those names are Greek based. Joseph wrote Jesus because that is what we call Him now . What He was called in Reformed Egyptian is unknown. We do have a good idea what He was called in Hebrew of the OT . The Hebrew of the Nephites was changed also so, there may have been some differences in His name , even though I'm sure the concept of a Messiah stayed.

[Jane_Doe]

On 10/14/2016 at 2:51 PM, Belshazzar said:

For me one of the most difficult things concerning the historicity of The Book of Mormon is the belief that the people in it have of Christ. In the Bible nobody knows about the coming of a savior that will Atone for their sins. They don't really have a belief in an Atoning Messiah or in the Atonement in the time period of the Old Testament. But in the Book of Mormon they do. Can somebody help me with how they have worked through that issue?

Every group of people has their own things in the Gospel that they embrace and those they have a lot of misconceptions.  In the Old World, where there was as literal Jerusalem to be king of and an evil Roman empire to overthrow, there seems to be reason they (mis)interrupted Christ's prophecy's that way.   In the New World there's a constant change of power/righteousness between different people/cities, they were not as prone to such a misconception (instead they dealt with a bunch of different misconceptions).

 

 

[Bobbieaware]

On 10/15/2016 at 8:05 AM, Bobbieaware said:

The resurrectied Savior used the Old Testament to prove to the two disciples on the road to Emmaus that the Old Testament prophets knew beforehand of his divine mission as the atoning and rising Redeemer of the world. But it must also be said that the Book of Mormon makes it clear the Bible we have today has been tampered with, with many "plain and precious" truths and covenants pertaining to the Savior having been outright removed from the text. This dramatic alteration and diminishment of the Bible can also help to explain why, from our point of view, the Nephites SEEMED to know more about the coming and mission of the Savior than the Old Testament prophets did. In fact, the Book of Mormon revelation that the Bible has been tampered with is powerfully supported by the fact that the writings of two messianic Old Testament prophets , Zenos and Zenock, were found on the brass plates but not in our Bible. This diminishment of the Bible by the great and abominable church could help to explain why Christ was able to make a powerful case for his mission, atonement and resurrection by using the Old Testament, an Old Testament that had not as yet been tampered with and diminished by conspiring men.

By the way, I would be very interested if you could kindly point out two or three of the prophecies in the Book of Mormon that you say no member of the Church ever seems to mention.

 

 

[Kevin Christensen]

On 10/14/2016 at 4:51 PM, Belshazzar said:

I love The Book of Mormon and to me it is an absolutely beautiful book. I love the things that it teaches and it is always amazing to read. However, my testimony in it has been wavering in it for a while with a lot of doubts. For me one of the most difficult things concerning the historicity of The Book of Mormon is the belief that the people in it have of Christ. In the Bible nobody knows about the coming of a savior that will Atone for their sins. They don't really have a belief in an Atoning Messiah or in the Atonement in the time period of the Old Testament. But in the Book of Mormon they do. Can somebody help me with how they have worked through that issue?

I'd recommend reading a bit of Margaret Barker:

http://www.margaretbarker.com/Papers/Atonement.pdf

http://www.margaretbarker.com/Papers/TextAndContext.pdf

http://www.margaretbarker.com/Papers/FourthServantSong.pdf

http://www.margaretbarker.com/Papers/RestoringSolomon.pdf

And then perhaps this, from me:

http://publications.mi.byu.edu/fullscreen/?pub=1459&index=4

As well as Barker's own take on the Book of Mormon here:

https://ojs.lib.byu.edu/spc/index.php/BYUStudies/article/viewFile/7066/6715

Best,

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

[Belshazzar]

Thanks guys for the answers! I've read some of the stuff that you have posted, and I have read a little bit of Barker. I need to read more.