Bill “Papa” Lee Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 In the past the topic of missionaries and computers, Internet and Smart Phones, being a serious problem. The problem being that, many young people struggle when they arrive at the MTC and on missions when they had to "unplug". Some recent policy changes have them plugging back in. During Gerenal Conference, GA's were talking about their own "Facebook" and "Twitter" accounts. It is becoming an odd thing to see anyone carrying scriptures to Church, because all chapels now have Internet. Parents who used to ban cellphones in Church, now find themselves using them to read lessons or scriptures. My first point is this...no matter how safe the topic on Facebook, all around you will see links that will lead adults (but more importantly) and kids into websites and other links that can lead their soul to destruction. I know little about Twitter, but Facebook I know. How does The Church, and parents deal with this threat to it's members? Also, many of my closest friends, sit in Church playing games while talks are being given. My question to all here who are very "Tech Savvy"...What is to be done?
Rain Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 The same thing that had always been done in a different way. Those influences have always been there. It's import ant for me to help my children learn and understand doctrine just like Mr parents did with me and my siblings. It doesn't always work. I have experience with that with one of my children, but it didn't always work with my parents and two of their children. How do we do it differently? We use the sources where our children are getting information. We put our strongest soldiers on the front line - the apostles and other church leaders on facebook etc. The leaders are not on facebook because it is cool or the new technology etc. They are there because that is one of the battlegrounds. 4
thatjimguy Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 22 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said: How does The Church, and parents deal with this threat to it's members? Also, many of my closest friends, sit in Church playing games while talks are being given. My question to all here who are very "Tech Savvy"...What is to be done? Well, I know that asking kids to put their phones away in Sunday School is a mixed bag. I was asked, to ask the teachers to ask their Sunday School classes not to use phones as they taught, but even the teachers said they are not going to enforce it to them. I do know that the tech is actually much better than using scriptures in general to me because it is a great tool. Yes, it can be abused, but if someone is playing games, chances are they would not listen anyhow or zone out and just be at church in physical form only. No real loss or gain. As far as Twitter or Facebook, they have to be real careful on how they respond to anything obviously. I doubt they really do much talking to people (in a back and forth way, that is) and just use it for announcements. It's not just anti's they would have to watch out for, but also they may be legit bombarded by issue in the church that they are not the one to ask about. (i.e. asking the Quarterback about the defensive line.) 1
Guest Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 10 minutes ago, Rain said: The same thing that had always been done in a different way. Those influences have always been there. It's import ant for me to help my children learn and understand doctrine just like Mr parents did with me and my siblings. It doesn't always work. I have experience with that with one of my children, but it didn't always work with my parents and two of their children. How do we do it differently? We use the sources where our children are getting information. We put our strongest soldiers on the front line - the apostles and other church leaders on facebook etc. The leaders are not on facebook because it is cool or the new technology etc. They are there because that is one of the battlegrounds. Good points, and yes our Church has always been very contemporary and up to date (if that's not redundant) and it has served the Church well. Parents are under a lot of pressure to let their kids have phones or IPad's in Church. However when the Internet comes into the Chaple, it seems that we inviting the "Trogon Horse" into the gates. The great thing about IPad's and Smart Phones, it possible to download for free every scripture, Ensign and lesson manuals, and have no need to use the Internet. My comments was not about GA's using it because it was "cool"...minor point.
Tacenda Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 30 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said: Good points, and yes our Church has always been very contemporary and up to date (if that's not redundant) and it has served the Church well. Parents are under a lot of pressure to let their kids have phones or IPad's in Church. However when the Internet comes into the Chaple, it seems that we inviting the "Trogon Horse" into the gates. The great thing about IPad's and Smart Phones, it possible to download for free every scripture, Ensign and lesson manuals, and have no need to use the Internet. My comments was not about GA's using it because it was "cool"...minor point. There can be drawbacks to having GA's having a FB. I can't remember which one, but read on their FB, comments to something he posted. Many of the comments were negative and brought up things that probably don't look good on a GA's FB account.
Thinking Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 (edited) 19 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said: Also, many of my closest friends, sit in Church playing games while talks are being given. Take away the electronic device and they will probably play "dots." Edited October 10, 2016 by Thinking 4
strappinglad Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 Well , at least it looks like most members have their heads bowed in contemplation during the sacrament. No? 1
The Nehor Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 Better then playing Tic tac toe like we used to have to. Life is so much better now. 3
Boanerges Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 What it to be done? Teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves. We still believe in agency, right? Even without free wifi at the chapels my phone is very functional on 4GLTE. I don't need church wifi to surf the web. I'm not saying I do surf the web, I actually do look up scriptures while people are talking and read scriptures during the sacrament (although that's on my tablet, and again no wifi is needed). I use my tablet for hymns as well because I have an app where they appear in larger type and I don't have to put on my glasses to sing (the ones I don't know all the words to). That's the same reason I use my tablet to read scripture (always from the closing chapters of one of the four gospels) during the sacrament - large font, no glasses needed. During particularly boring talks where the Savior is not the focus I have been known to make up my own talk on the same subject using my tablet as a resource. On very rare occasion in sacrament meeting I look at something else. In class I look at the lesson material and try to follow along, sometimes that can be a challenge depending on the teacher. Again, if the teacher/class is straying I'll just do my own lesson using the available materials in Gospel Library. In class I am more likely to go to sites like this one when bored, but it's still not common that I do so. I think you should just admit that this is a thinly veiled anti-technology topic, Papa. I've heard it all before. And since I don't do social media I don't care if the GAs have accounts - they (or their surrogates) can tweet all they want. I recognize they are not infallible and don't believe for a minute that none of them have ever seen porn or been tempted to look at porn online.
thesometimesaint Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 My kids are a lot older, but i told them when they are old enough to sign the contract, and pay for it. They can have any phone they want.
Guest Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 10 hours ago, Thinking said: Take away the electronic device and they will probably plat "dots."
cdowis Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 Pres. Uchdorf responds on Twitter and on Facebook http://www.ldsliving.com/President-Uchtdorf-Shares-Response-to-Social-Media-Posts-After-His-General-Conference-Address/s/83405?utm_source=ldsliving&utm_medium=email
cinepro Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 11 hours ago, Thinking said: Take away the electronic device and they will probably plat "dots." Your move... 3
Bob Crockett Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 As one who used to stand at the pulpit many times a year, I could see what adults were doing with their Ipads, at least the first three or four rows. Mostly surfing the web; email; facebook. Today the problem is endemic and isn't worth addressing. As it was with congregants wearing bluetooth ear pieces into the chapel during sacrament meeting (I don't see that anymore), the time will come when it will be considered rude and gauche to use electronic devices in church. Facebook is a two-edged sword, but one edge is a lot sharper than the other. 2
ksfisher Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 11 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said: As it was with congregants wearing bluetooth ear pieces into the chapel during sacrament meeting (I don't see that anymore), the time will come when it will be considered rude and gauche to use electronic devices in church. Facebook is a two-edged sword, but one edge is a lot sharper than the other. I've never seen bluetooth ear pieces in church. Used to be on the high council so I'd get around (at least in my stake). The entire bishopric in my ward uses scriptures on either phones or ipads. Personally I haven't used anything but electronic scriptures for about 7 years now. I wouldn't turn down a friendly wager as to whether electronic scriptures disappear or become the norm in church. 1
Guest Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 7 hours ago, Boanerges said: I think you should just admit that this is a thinly veiled anti-technology topic, Papa. I've heard it all before. I carry an IPad, and this post has nothing to do with "anti-technology". The thread has to do with distractions concerning children and phones in Church and sometimes with adults. Facebook (in which I am a member and use often) comes with links that our children can (as we can as well) click onto website that can and will expose them to things they don't need to see in Church or at home. As far as scriptures and lesson, one does not need wifi to have them at ones fingertips, unless it is the odd first week lesson in Priesthood or Relief Society. If that is the case, then it is Adult classes where indeed adults should "govern themselves". You could not be further from the mark if you think this is an "anti-tech" post. 1
Guest Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 1 hour ago, cdowis said: Pres. Uchdorf responds on Twitter and on Facebook http://www.ldsliving.com/President-Uchtdorf-Shares-Response-to-Social-Media-Posts-After-His-General-Conference-Address/s/83405?utm_source=ldsliving&utm_medium=email It was he that I was referring to having made comment about it during conference.
Guest Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 35 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said: Facebook is a two-edged sword, but one edge is a lot sharper than the other. Amen, but so many things come with this problem. The tounge is sharper than any two edged sword (to borrow the Savior's words). Sadly the tounge can cut very deeply, and it always easy to know in which way it is being used...not as easy to recognize with some app's with iPad and phones in Church. I have on many occasions used my computer and power point in Sunday School and even in Priesthood. Computers, IPad and Phones are wonderful things, I used them for 25 years while teaching nights in College, but only break them out in Church when I feel all may benefit in Church. Well...never telephones, as of late it has become commonplace to have a phone that someone forgot to put on silent to ring in Sacrament meeting, or even during the blessing of the Sacrament. I would guess this is why some Bishop have been banning phones during Sacrament meetings.
rongo Posted October 11, 2016 Posted October 11, 2016 I think it would be awesome to secretly have a jammer installed and wipe out internet and phone access at the church building. And then turn it back on and act dumb when members complain to the stake and the stake tech guy looks into it? Can you imagine the fur flying as the electronics-addicted members try in vain to access web sites during church? 1
Rain Posted October 11, 2016 Posted October 11, 2016 1 hour ago, rongo said: I think it would be awesome to secretly have a jammer installed and wipe out internet and phone access at the church building. And then turn it back on and act dumb when members complain to the stake and the stake tech guy looks into it? Can you imagine the fur flying as the electronics-addicted members try in vain to access web sites during church? The only problem I would have with that is trying to access things for lessons.
rongo Posted October 11, 2016 Posted October 11, 2016 (edited) Preparation, and old-school paper scriptures and paper! My family is increasingly a fossil, and it blows people under 50 away. We're non-tech, and know the scriptures and gospel principles. And don't know our way around a smart phone (don't have one, in fact). I'm bewildered by the generations that can't prep or teach a lesson without internet . . . Edited October 11, 2016 by rongo
Gray Posted October 11, 2016 Posted October 11, 2016 On 10/9/2016 at 10:12 PM, Bill "Papa" Lee said: Good points, and yes our Church has always been very contemporary and up to date (if that's not redundant) and it has served the Church well. Parents are under a lot of pressure to let their kids have phones or IPad's in Church. However when the Internet comes into the Chaple, it seems that we inviting the "Trogon Horse" into the gates. The great thing about IPad's and Smart Phones, it possible to download for free every scripture, Ensign and lesson manuals, and have no need to use the Internet. My comments was not about GA's using it because it was "cool"...minor point. At one point the printing press was new technology. We adapt or we die.
rongo Posted October 11, 2016 Posted October 11, 2016 9 minutes ago, Gray said: At one point the printing press was new technology. We adapt or we die. Do we ever reach a point as a society where giving someone a paper book means that it will never be read? Would missionaries then simply encourage people to download the gospel library app and read the Book of Mormon on that? It seems plain to me that even fewer investigators will read it on a device than in a book . . . Is there no real difference between reading scriptures on a device versus in a paper book? Are there any people here who only ever read on devices now, never paper books? I'm trying to see a scenario where the Church dies if it doesn't go 100% to devices . . . 1
Gray Posted October 11, 2016 Posted October 11, 2016 16 minutes ago, rongo said: Do we ever reach a point as a society where giving someone a paper book means that it will never be read? Would missionaries then simply encourage people to download the gospel library app and read the Book of Mormon on that? It seems plain to me that even fewer investigators will read it on a device than in a book . . . Is there no real difference between reading scriptures on a device versus in a paper book? Are there any people here who only ever read on devices now, never paper books? I'm trying to see a scenario where the Church dies if it doesn't go 100% to devices . . . I don't pretend to know where it's going. I know that if I want to read something longer than an article I prefer to read it on paper. But I also know that most of my reading is done on digital devices. Scripture is typically read in short bursts, so I think digital makes sense there.
Rain Posted October 11, 2016 Posted October 11, 2016 (edited) 36 minutes ago, rongo said: Do we ever reach a point as a society where giving someone a paper book means that it will never be read? Would missionaries then simply encourage people to download the gospel library app and read the Book of Mormon on that? It seems plain to me that even fewer investigators will read it on a device than in a book . . . Is there no real difference between reading scriptures on a device versus in a paper book? Are there any people here who only ever read on devices now, never paper books? I'm trying to see a scenario where the Church dies if it doesn't go 100% to devices . . . I think they both have their places. When I learned how to use my app and not just read it I was able to connect things like never before. Things like linking conference talks with scriptures. I did that before with post it notes, but now I spend more time studying and pondering over those links instead of putting the quotes in my word perfect and lining up the print etc. (And I found the post it sticky took print off my page.) =!24Scripture chains are much easier. And I never run out of room in the margins for notes. But other times I prefer the paper. Like now I am following Elder Bednar's advice, marking up a new copy of the Book of Mormon, looking for an answer and will go through the highlighted portions to see what I've found. While marking is much easier in digital the last part will be easier in paper. Not that it matters for the most part, but paper scriptures are so much faster than digital die those who know their scriptures than digital. And it is easier to flip through and discuss. I love taking my phone with me. So much easier to hold on to. I have all the Ensigns that I can use to follow along with Teaching for our Times. And the presidents manuals. It is especially great when we go on vacation. Edited October 11, 2016 by Rain
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