Missionaries leaving

[cinepro]

6 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said:

But it was a revelation to lower the missionary age...so clearly God knew there would be a negative impact by sending out younger missionaries...right?  I'm guessing that its part of His plan

When they temporarily changed the duration for men's missions to 18months back in the early 1980s, I wonder if the members considered it a "revelation" at the time.  Because that's about as momentous a change as lowering the age, and it only lasted a year or two, if I recall.

[Johnnie Cake]

11 minutes ago, cinepro said:

When they temporarily changed the duration for men's missions to 18months back in the early 1980s, I wonder if the members considered it a "revelation" at the time.  Because that's about as momentous a change as lowering the age, and it only lasted a year or two, if I recall.

DesNews quotes GA who called it a revelation...who am I to question DesNews

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865587616/One-year-later-Looking-back-at-the-worldwide-impact-of-a-prophets-announcement.html?pg=all

[Thinking]

23 minutes ago, cinepro said:

When they temporarily changed the duration for men's missions to 18months back in the early 1980s, I wonder if the members considered it a "revelation" at the time.  Because that's about as momentous a change as lowering the age, and it only lasted a year or two, if I recall.

If my memory is correct, missions were reduced to 18 months in April 1982 and increased back to 24 months in April 1984. I served from August 1982 to February 1984. I used to joke that the brethren reduced the duration just to get me to serve.

[bsjkki]

I think mission presidents could use more training.  My husband loved his mission president who told him in his exit interview that saving the missionary was his first priority.  I think others are business men who constantly pressure for numbers.  They treat the missionaries like a sales team with quotas and unrealistic expectstions.  My son came home traumatized.  Served his 2 years but his love for the gospel had decreased.  One of the rules of his mission was to run between houses as well as no board games on sick days or playing sports with other elders on pdays.  He never felt good enough and came home a mess.  

[thatjimguy]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

I can see one problem with younger missionaries and that is they are less likely to get married soon after their missions.  And that can lead to delaying marriage quite some time as they get heavily involved in going to college, a job and marriage gets put off longer and longer.

Having a family tends to be a big motivator for going to church.

Not saying that they should be getting married, btw.

Getting married can have an effect being more motivated for college and not a distraction. I've known more than a handful of guys who couldn't go the bed early enough, were distracted, stressed etc. get married and poof! New man. Focus, motivation, drive, excellence. Ok maybe "new man" is a strong word, but "the best man he can be" is a better term.

[James Tunney]

I didn't particularly like my mission and I think it had a negative impact on me for what it's worth.  I thought the emphasis on numbers and baptisms was wrong.  The emphasis on sales techniques was wrong too.  I would often think why the reliance on sales techniques when we have the truth?  Shouldn't the truth sell itself independently of sales tricks?  Anyway, I think there is a lot of disillusionment that can happen with the missionaries.  In my case, I was probably a little too aggressive in pushing people into the baptismal font and I think it was because of the pressure to get numbers.  I really felt guilty for pressuring people into things that they weren't ready to do.  Then, to top it off, we were instructed to dump the newbies onto the ward and move on.  Let the bishop deal with it.  I had a bishop almost in tears because we were simply bringing in too many. Anyway, that was in the hey day prior to the internet.  It's got to be doubly tough on the missionaries today, having to deal with the downturn in numbers due to the internet.  The guilt they must feel from their mission presidents and the barn-storming G.A.'s must be tremendous.  You know the missionaries' "righteousness" or lack thereof is the focus of blame for the drop in numbers.  I feel for the missionaries today and I can see why they leave.  

[salgare]

require them to visit an inactive once a week for two months before turning in their papers.

Edited August 4, 2016 by salgare

[Duncan]

1 minute ago, bsjkki said:

I think mission presidents could use more training.  My husband loved his mission president who told him in his exit interview that saving the missionary was his first priority.  I think others are business men who constantly pressure for numbers.  They treat the missionaries like a sales team with quotas and unrealistic expectstions.  My son came home traumatized.  Served his 2 years but his love for the gospel had decreased.  One of the rules of his mission was to run between houses as well as no board games on sick days or playing sports with other elders on pdays.  He never felt good enough and came home a mess.  

where did he serve? Something I see, generally speaking, in Mission Presidents is those who didn't serve as young men are idealistic and they don't have the lived experience of policies or know what it's like basically. Mission Presidents who did serve run their missions like they had as young men. My 1st Mission Pres. served in Mexico in the late '60's and ran his mission like it was back then, which wasn't good because it was LA in the late '90's. Something else I see is Presidents who come in and see the mission as super strict and a million rules and missionaries are brittle and members don't like them the President will relax the rules and bring life back to it but it can swing the other way and missionaries do stupid things and members see it or know about it and then the new President comes in and is a clean up President and now it swings back to being a strict mission, it swings back and forth and you need balance.

[Hamba Tuhan]

12 minutes ago, James Tunney said:

It's got to be doubly tough on the missionaries today, having to deal with the downturn in numbers due to the internet.

I know this has become a veritable article of faith in certain quarters, but it rings hollow to me. When I was ward mission leader about 12 years ago, our one set of Elders struggled day in and day out to have anyone listen to them. I have been the ward mission leader again in the same ward for the past 2.75 years, and the situation has changed dramatically. We've had two to four companionships that whole time, and each one teaches more lessons in a week than I did during any month of my mission.

Edited August 4, 2016 by Hamba Tuhan

[Hamba Tuhan]

8 minutes ago, salgare said:

require them to visit an inactive once a week for two months before turning in their papers.

Isn't this called 'home teaching'? They should all have been doing it for at least four years before submitting their applications. And that would be in addition to all the ministering visits they may have made to less-active boys in their quorums over the years.

Edited August 4, 2016 by Hamba Tuhan

[bsjkki]

2 minutes ago, Duncan said:

where did he serve? Something I see, generally speaking, in Mission Presidents is those who didn't serve as young men are idealistic and they don't have the lived experience of policies or know what it's like basically. Mission Presidents who did serve run their missions like they had as young men. My 1st Mission Pres. served in Mexico in the late '60's and ran his mission like it was back then, which wasn't good because it was LA in the late '90's. Something else I see is Presidents who come in and see the mission as super strict and a million rules and missionaries are brittle and members don't like them the President will relax the rules and bring life back to it but it can swing the other way and missionaries do stupid things and members see it or know about it and then the new President comes in and is a clean up President and now it swings back to being a strict mission, it swings back and forth and you need balance.

My sons mission did have a high number of missionaries sent home.  He was shut in with a companion suffering from depression for six weeks before they decided to send him home...it was really hard on him watching this guy suffer but he also couldn't get him to leave the apartment.  My son found the situation incredibly stressful.  

[James Tunney]

1 minute ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I know this has become a veritable article of faith in certain quarters, but it rings hollow to me. When I was ward mission leader about 12 years ago, our one set of Elders struggled day in and day out to have anyone listen to them. I have been the ward mission leader again in the same ward for the past 2.75 years, and the situation has changed dramatically. We've had two to three companionships that whole time, and each one teaches more lessons in a week than I did during any month of my mission.

Numbers world-wide are down.  Your area may see an uptick but I think it is clear that the numbers are down and this is despite the surge.

[Hamba Tuhan]

6 minutes ago, James Tunney said:

Numbers world-wide are down.  Your area may see an uptick but I think it is clear that the numbers are down and this is despite the surge.

The number of convert baptisms, yes. Do you have any 'numbers' on things like lessons taught? I live in the worldly and prosperous capital of a predominantly secular nation, and I am continually stunned at how many people currently seem to be open to listening. I've never seen anything like it before.

Just this past Sunday, I went with the Elders after church to meet with a man (and his de facto partner). The missionaries had talked to this man on the street sometime last week. He works as an IT consultant, and he told us he'd spent the morning Googling 'weird Mormon beliefs' before our visit. He also accepted a return appointment for this coming Wednesday.

[James Tunney]

4 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

The number of convert baptisms, yes. Do you have any 'numbers' on things like lessons taught? I live in the worldly and prosperous capital of a predominantly secular nation, and I am continually stunned at how many people currently seem to be open to listening. I've never seen anything like it before.

Just this past Sunday, I went with the Elders after church to meet with a man (and his de facto partner). The missionaries had talked to this man on the street sometime last week. He works as an IT consultant, and he told us he'd spent the morning Googling 'weird Mormon beliefs' before our visit. He also accepted a return appointment for this coming Wednesday.

That's great, I guess.

[salgare]

25 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Isn't this called 'home teaching'? They should all have been doing it for at least four years before submitting their applications. And that would be in addition to all the ministering visits they may have made to less-active boys in their quorums over the years.

In this ward they don't send the kids to my home.  My home teacher has a prospective missionary as a companion but after the first meeting, he now comes alone.

[Bernard Gui]

LDS Family Services offers free counseling to missionaries who come home early.

Edited August 4, 2016 by Bernard Gui

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

My sons mission did have a high number of missionaries sent home.  He was shut in with a companion suffering from depression for six weeks before they decided to send him home...it was really hard on him watching this guy suffer but he also couldn't get him to leave the apartment.  My son found the situation incredibly stressful.  

My son went through the same thing with a companion with cystic fibrosis I believe, who was on a machine of some sort. They couldn't leave the apartment either. They actually did a no-no and borrowed a t.v., not going to say where, and watched it since the boredom was too much. I don't know if it was because of this situation, but my son was able to solve the rubics cube faster than I've ever seen done before.

[Tacenda]

47 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

LDS Family Services offers free counseling to missionaries who come home early.

My neighbor's son came home early just recently over depression and anxiety. I hope he's getting some kind of help. I wonder if I'd step on toes by mentioning it to his mother. They probably know about though, maybe through the mission president?

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

My neighbor's son came home early just recently over depression and anxiety. I hope he's getting some kind of help. I wonder if I'd step on toes by mentioning it to his mother. They probably know about though, maybe through the mission president?

Through his bishop. It's free. I hope he's ok.

[Kenngo1969]

https://www.lds.org/callings/missionary/my-plan?lang=eng.

One of the duties of Elder Richard Norby, the most senior and most seriously hurt missionary at the attack on the airport in Brussels was to monitor and coordinate implementation of the “My Plan” Plan (yes, I know that's probably redundant) among the missionaries in the mission.

I've posted this here before. At the risk of being redundant again, I'll post it again, redundantly: https://greatgourdini.wordpress.com/2014/06/01/gods-army-and-my-own-mission/. I know there will probably be varying opinions about this, but I do think there's a mantle that goes with missionary work that is difficult for some of us to lose. Smac97 has mentioned some of the challenges that come with adjusting to “cvilian” life after a mission. Loss of that mantle is one of them.

If I were determined to get stuck in the past, I might've been one of those “emotionally scarred” missionaries. I didn't get along very well with my first mission president. President Beecroft from God's Army reminded me of him at first—until, just when I was all but convinced he could not redeem himself in my eyes, he gives the impromptu eulogy for Elder Dalton.

Edited August 4, 2016 by Kenngo1969

[Gray]

5 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I know this has become a veritable article of faith in certain quarters, but it rings hollow to me. When I was ward mission leader about 12 years ago, our one set of Elders struggled day in and day out to have anyone listen to them. I have been the ward mission leader again in the same ward for the past 2.75 years, and the situation has changed dramatically. We've had two to four companionships that whole time, and each one teaches more lessons in a week than I did during any month of my mission.

Whatever the reason for the downturn, it's a fact that the number of baptisms per missionary has dropped dramatically.

[Hamba Tuhan]

6 hours ago, James Tunney said:

That's great, I guess.

I don't yet know what it is, but it clearly belies the notion that somehow the internet has stopped people listening to our missionaries. We've only had four convert baptisms in our ward so far this year, but they have been (1) a man studying IT at university, (2) this man's wife, (3) a man in his late 70s who worked in electronics his whole life and whose wife is constantly online (we're Facebook friends), and (4) a 22-year-old man who is one of those young people who simply can't unplug.

[Hamba Tuhan]

6 hours ago, salgare said:

In this ward they don't send the kids to my home.  My home teacher has a prospective missionary as a companion but after the first meeting, he now comes alone.

That welcoming, hey?

[Hamba Tuhan]

2 hours ago, Gray said:

Whatever the reason for the downturn, it's a fact that the number of baptisms per missionary has dropped dramatically.

This is true. And it will be interesting to see what the future holds. As a historian, I'm acutely aware that outcomes often lag behind trends. I have no way of knowing how many seeds currently being planted by our worldwide missionary force will eventually germinate, but in these parts, I've never seen such receptivity to the seed before. Our area president told us that, according to internal Church research, the average convert has had eight prior contacts with the Church (members, missionaries, ads, etc.), and it takes time to accumulate that number of contacts

By the way, we had our ward missionary coordination meeting tonight, and our two sets of Elders taught a total of 23 lessons last week -- only eight of which were arranged by members. When I compare that to my own mission experience (in a very similar city) and to the situation just a few years ago, it boggles my mind.

Edited August 4, 2016 by Hamba Tuhan

[jkwilliams]

1 hour ago, Gray said:

Whatever the reason for the downturn, it's a fact that the number of baptisms per missionary has dropped dramatically.

I have no idea what's driving the downturn, but it has definitely happened. As for the change in missionary age, my guess is that it is based more on retention of missionary-age kids than anything else. Previously, young men typically had a year or so after high school before turning 19. Perhaps more kids were deciding in that year not to serve missions or becoming inactive. Lowering the age means these kids go directly from being under parental authority to a mission, so it's likely more would serve missions. 

When the age change happened, my parents both expressed their strong disapproval of the change, both saying that they thought it would mean more missionaries who were unprepared not just for a mission but for living on their own. Since the implementation of the change, they've told me that a number of missionaries serving in their ward have really struggled with living on their own, with several going home within a few months. Similarly, young men and young women from their ward have returned home early because they were not ready to be on their own. 

It would be nice if the church were encouraging only those young men and women who really want to serve missions, but I think there is a prevalent belief that just getting them on missions will change these kids mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. I recall that when my mission president attended a conference in Salt Lake, President Monson said that young men serve missions for many reasons--family, girlfriends, social pressure--but "they stay because they are converted." That goes along with what my mission president said initially when he arrived in Bolivia, that he was more concerned about converting us than he was about convert baptisms. I've seen parents send kids out on missions with the hope that the mission will resolve whatever problems they have, but I'm not sure that's a good reason to send someone out on a mission. Most of us who have served missions have had companions who did not want to be there. On rare occasions, things changed, but at least in my experience, those who didn't want to be there still didn't want to be there after 2 years. 

I've mentioned before that my oldest son is on the autism spectrum, though quite high functioning. My wife used to say, "If we could get him on a mission, I know he'd do much better." I finally asked her, "Would you want to be his companion? Would you feel good about someone else dealing with him as a companion?" She acknowledged that he would not have made a good missionary, and most likely, it would have been a bad experience for him. When I was young men's president years ago, we had a young man in our ward with severe social anxiety, such that he rarely came out to church or activities. He was a nice kid, but he couldn't handle social situations, so I visited him regularly and got to know him, but I didn't push him, as when he would attend church, he would sit in the back row and usually leave right after the sacrament was passed. A year or so after he graduated from high school (mostly homeschooled), I was elders quorum president, and our bishop announced that this young man was going to be ordained an elder and was preparing to serve a mission. The bishop paid for medical and dental work so this kid would pass the health requirements (he was quite obese, so I don't think he would qualify now). I told the bishop I thought this was a bad idea, but he said the spirit had prompted him to really push to get this kid on a mission. He was called to North Carolina, IIRC, but he was home 10 days after he left the MTC. I visited him, and he was worse than before because he felt like a complete failure. I still feel terrible that an overzealous bishop caused lasting harm to that kid. 

To me, the issue is the purpose of a mission. Is it to find and baptize converts, or is it to convert the missionaries themselves? If it's both, how do you balance or prioritize those goals? I'm glad that's not anything I will ever have to deal with.