carbon dioxide Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 (edited) This bill is in California. http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/bill-prevent-lgbt-discrimination-religious-schools-41015052 SURPRISE So it only affects schools in California. Are there any small LDS schools in California that could be affected by this? The beat roles on until the Constitution hangs by a thread but I guess the lawyers all love this as its another way to make $$$. I love this statement "It isn't out to attack Christian universities or wipe them off the face of the planet," he said. "They shouldn't have the legal right or entitlement to discriminate against anyone." So its not intended to attack or wipe them out. Just mock the values the schools hold to. Edited July 30, 2016 by carbon dioxide 2
Robert F. Smith Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 5 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said: This bill is in California. http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/bill-prevent-lgbt-discrimination-religious-schools-41015052 SURPRISE So it only affects schools in California. Are there any small LDS schools in California that could be affected by this? The beat roles on until the Constitution hangs by a thread but I guess the lawyers all love this as its another way to make $$$. I love this statement "It isn't out to attack Christian universities or wipe them off the face of the planet," he said. "They shouldn't have the legal right or entitlement to discriminate against anyone." So its not intended to attack or wipe them out. Just mock the values the schools hold to. There are a number of Roman Catholic, Protestant, Hindu, Buddhist, and Muslim colleges and universities in California, not to mention the parochial schools which might be affected. However, it is very doubtful that such a bill would pass, or that it would stand a Constitutional test. In Provo, Utah, as I understand it, unisex bathrooms are being provided in the new Provo High School for single use by any LGBTQ person who might feel a need to use one. 2
Jeanne Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 (edited) I don't have an opinion as of yet. Kind of confused on the "not being able to get a grant for low income students" . In any case, it you still has to pass. What do you think those odds are in the California legistature? I don't have a clue! The last statement though by the gay student is true though. We're all sinners here...education shouldn't be so hard. It would be real interesting to know what he students themselves think about it. Can someone explain the "grant" concern to me? Edited July 30, 2016 by Jeanne
Duncan Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 Why would christian people discriminate against gay people anyways? Would Jesus mock others? We may not be gay but that doesn't mean we need to make fun of others who are 3
Traela Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 27 minutes ago, Duncan said: Why would christian people discriminate against gay people anyways? Would Jesus mock others? We may not be gay but that doesn't mean we need to make fun of others who are It's not about making fun of others. It's about allowing religious schools to enforce their values. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 33 minutes ago, Traela said: It's not about making fun of others. It's about allowing religious schools to enforce their values. To enforce their values on their own premises. 1
Duncan Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 55 minutes ago, Traela said: It's not about making fun of others. It's about allowing religious schools to enforce their values. enforce? is it a value if it's enforced? 1
Thinking Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 2 hours ago, Jeanne said: Can someone explain the "grant" concern to me? Schools that receive government funding must comply with any regulations that are tied to that funding. If the students at a private school receive government grants to help pay for tuition and other fees, the school is indirectly receiving that money and so must comply with those regulations. Student loans also affect these regulations because the government pays the interest to the bank while the student is full-time. The student doesn't pay any interest until six months after graduation (or termination of full-time status). 2
california boy Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 Am I understanding this correctly. They can still discriminate, they just can't get the tax benefits and government loans if they choose to discriminate?? 1
rpn Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 I am not sure why any religious school would oppose lgbtq people school services because they are lgbtq. I can see them objecting at promotion of being lgbtg or agitating against doctrines on the family or chastity. But why would and LDS school object to such a law if the language did not require they accept PDA from lgbtq if they didn't accept it from straight kids, and they did not have to accept promotion of the lifestyle or opposition to their behavioral standards or membership expectations.
Scott Lloyd Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 1 hour ago, Duncan said: enforce? is it a value if it's enforced? I don't see why not. Here's an applicable definition from an online dictionary: 2. Quote a person's principles or standards of behavior; one's judgment of what is important in life. "they internalize their parents' rules and values" synonyms: principles, ethics, moral code, morals, standards, code of behavior "society's values are passed on to us as children" So, if we substitute the synonym principles for values,perhaps it will make more sense to you.
Duncan Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 5 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: I don't see why not. Here's an applicable definition from an online dictionary: 2. So, if we substitute the synonym principles for values,perhaps it will make more sense to you. I am a Canadian who served my mission in California, nothing makes sense!!!! what is "powdered sugar"? jokes aside what principles would kids at a religious school have that gay people don't have? 1
bluebell Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 2 hours ago, Duncan said: enforce? is it a value if it's enforced? LDS temple enforce their values on all who wish to attend. Do you feel that that is of value? 2
Duncan Posted July 31, 2016 Posted July 31, 2016 Just now, bluebell said: LDS temple enforce their values on all who wish to attend. Do you feel that that is of value? yes but what are these values that are different from gay people to non gay people? the only thing different I see is not engage in sex. I read the article and it seems the shoe is now on the other foot for Christians but I wish them all well and hope they can come to a happy conclusion. 1
Jeanne Posted July 31, 2016 Posted July 31, 2016 1 hour ago, Thinking said: Schools that receive government funding must comply with any regulations that are tied to that funding. If the students at a private school receive government grants to help pay for tuition and other fees, the school is indirectly receiving that money and so must comply with those regulations. Student loans also affect these regulations because the government pays the interest to the bank while the student is full-time. The student doesn't pay any interest until six months after graduation (or termination of full-time status). Thanks..I appreciate the clarification.
Guest Posted July 31, 2016 Posted July 31, 2016 5 hours ago, carbon dioxide said: This bill is in California. http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/bill-prevent-lgbt-discrimination-religious-schools-41015052 SURPRISE So it only affects schools in California. Are there any small LDS schools in California that could be affected by this? The beat roles on until the Constitution hangs by a thread but I guess the lawyers all love this as its another way to make $$$. I love this statement "It isn't out to attack Christian universities or wipe them off the face of the planet," he said. "They shouldn't have the legal right or entitlement to discriminate against anyone." So its not intended to attack or wipe them out. Just mock the values the schools hold to. My name is "Bill", I don't remember suggesting this. On a serious note, this is a fear when these Prop 8 ballots have been fought for bs about.
rodheadlee Posted July 31, 2016 Posted July 31, 2016 1 hour ago, bluebell said: LDS temple enforce their values on all who wish to attend. Do you feel that that is of value? That will be the next attack.
Duncan Posted July 31, 2016 Posted July 31, 2016 Just now, rodheadlee said: That will be the next attack. we've had SSM in Canada for ten years and they haven't made a whisper when it comes to our Church and since then the Church built 2 Temples with hopefully another one on the way, maybe things are different in the US. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted July 31, 2016 Posted July 31, 2016 2 hours ago, Duncan said: yes but what are these values that are different from gay people to non gay people? the only thing different I see is not engage in sex. I read the article and it seems the shoe is now on the other foot for Christians but I wish them all well and hope they can come to a happy conclusion. The law of chastity is a value and a principle, right?
rodheadlee Posted July 31, 2016 Posted July 31, 2016 1 hour ago, Duncan said: we've had SSM in Canada for ten years and they haven't made a whisper when it comes to our Church and since then the Church built 2 Temples with hopefully another one on the way, maybe things are different in the US. Yeah well, I'm in California. It's a battleground state.
Duncan Posted July 31, 2016 Posted July 31, 2016 45 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: The law of chastity is a value and a principle, right? to us but maybe not all christian groups view it the same way we do
Scott Lloyd Posted July 31, 2016 Posted July 31, 2016 5 minutes ago, Duncan said: to us but maybe not all christian groups view it the same way we do You don't have to agree with someone's value for it to be a value. 1
Duncan Posted July 31, 2016 Posted July 31, 2016 Just now, Scott Lloyd said: You don't have to agree with someone's value for it to be a value. so why would these schools want to enforce their values over others? isn't that the issue here? to me it's about getting what others have, not taking away from what others have. As I said to rodheadlee SSM and gay rights have been in place in Canada for a decade now and there hasn't been a peep from them or anyone about my right to worship God or get married in the Temple. In my city the Church is trying to build a Temple but the biggest opposition, if you believe High Priests is not from any gay rights group but from the Jewish Community (I doubt it and sometimes class sounded like Berlin in 1939) 1
Calm Posted July 31, 2016 Posted July 31, 2016 7 hours ago, Jeanne said: I don't have an opinion as of yet. Kind of confused on the "not being able to get a grant for low income students" . In any case, it you still has to pass. What do you think those odds are in the California legistature? I don't have a clue! The last statement though by the gay student is true though. We're all sinners here...education shouldn't be so hard. It would be real interesting to know what he students themselves think about it. Can someone explain the "grant" concern to me? I assume it is similar to the Pell Grant. The Government gives money to go to school to low income students. Not a loan, and iirc it is only for undergraduate work. 1
TheSkepticChristian Posted July 31, 2016 Posted July 31, 2016 6 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: You don't have to agree with someone's value for it to be a value. I wonder, you want government to stay out of private businesses and religious institutions? Yes? but I bet you don't want religion out of politics. 3 hours ago, bluebell said: LDS temple enforce their values on all who wish to attend. Do you feel that that is of value? Don't worry,everyone supports religious freedom.
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