SteveO Posted July 21, 2016 Posted July 21, 2016 http://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-newvistas-mormon-utopia/ Just read the article, I'm not in a good place to summarize it. Look forward to hearing your comments...
Glenn101 Posted July 21, 2016 Posted July 21, 2016 29 minutes ago, SteveO said: http://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-newvistas-mormon-utopia/ Just read the article, I'm not in a good place to summarize it. Look forward to hearing your comments... It has very little to do with the LDS Church except that it involves an idea spawned by Joseph Smith and a friend. Glenn
SteveO Posted July 21, 2016 Author Posted July 21, 2016 29 minutes ago, Calm said: Discussed here: Oops...my apologies. Thank You!
Tacenda Posted July 21, 2016 Posted July 21, 2016 SteveO, this guy wants to buy up a bunch of land near BYU campus and the MTC too.
Calm Posted July 21, 2016 Posted July 21, 2016 He is being a real jerk about it too. Instead of going for cheaper and unused land 20 minutes south, he wants to tear up a nice neghbourhood and is, imo, using unethical means to do so (turning what are meant to be one family homes into student or temporary housing or parking lots...how green is that?) and just telling residents who protest that it is destiny and they just have to accept his money and move out, no matter what their plans for their home was.
Tacenda Posted July 21, 2016 Posted July 21, 2016 I finally read the entire article. I feel for the Vermont community as well.
RevTestament Posted July 21, 2016 Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Tacenda said: I finally read the entire article. I feel for the Vermont community as well. I don't really. Best laid plans of mice and men. I don't see much chance any LDS are going to move to these cubicles - let's be real. The thing will be a flop. I think he should test his model before spending his millions. Right where he has his headquarters would be a good place to test - build some at Geneva and see how many LDS flock to it - not. In a few years this will all be water under the bridge. Now if he had some kind of self contained power source like fusion or LTR fission it might get real. Edited July 21, 2016 by RevTestament 1
Analytics Posted July 21, 2016 Posted July 21, 2016 11 hours ago, Calm said: He is being a real jerk about it too. Instead of going for cheaper and unused land 20 minutes south, he wants to tear up a nice neghbourhood and is, imo, using unethical means to do so (turning what are meant to be one family homes into student or temporary housing or parking lots...how green is that?) and just telling residents who protest that it is destiny and they just have to accept his money and move out, no matter what their plans for their home was. Personally, I like the idea of building a Utopia. But if you are going to try such a project, do it someplace where it is wanted--not where people are happily living and don't want the change. 1
Calm Posted July 21, 2016 Posted July 21, 2016 I would be very supportive in another location where what residents there were liked the idea.
SteveO Posted July 21, 2016 Author Posted July 21, 2016 My sister sent me the article initially. She seems to think this is a guy who is preparing for the second coming...you know, establish Zion everywhere possible type of thing. I was half expecting the article to get him on record declaring he's on the Lord's errand--might explain his bullish attitude to objections. I do think it's a neat idea regardless.
jkwilliams Posted July 21, 2016 Posted July 21, 2016 When I lived in Utah last, I worked for a company that had been started by David Hall and still shared some development resources with his company, Novatek (it was across the parking lot from our office). He's definitely a brilliant engineer and pretty visionary, but he is eccentric, as you might imagine. One thing I saw before I left was a plan for a sort of large apartment building that was self-supporting with food being grown in a large atrium/aquarium. It's a little odd that he's wedded his ideas to Joseph Smith's Zion plat, but then that's entirely in character for him. 1
Jane_Doe Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 On July 20, 2016 at 6:59 PM, SteveO said: http://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-newvistas-mormon-utopia/ Just read the article, I'm not in a good place to summarize it. Look forward to hearing your comments... Well, this article is an example of poor journalism. 1) It makes the area to be developed sound huge, when it's <1.5 square miles. 2) It makes it sound like it's been a secret, when it's been in the news for months. 3) He's planning on building such communities around the globe, with 4 currently in the works... but the article is totally focused on one <1.5 sq miles because the campaigning lady doesn't want it around her place. 4) Doing the math, this "high population density" area as an density of about ~3,000 ppl/sq mi. This is equivalent to a standard suburbia neighborhood. 5) Lot of really unwarranted, unnecessary, and over-the-top-dramatic language. Example "tycoon", "mega-utopia", etc. A more accurate title would be "developer wishes to develop <1.5 sq mi sustainable high tech community in Vermont and local residents declare "not in my backyard!" "... but then again, who would be interested in reading that article?
JulieM Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 49 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: Well, this article is an example of poor journalism. 1) It makes the area to be developed sound huge, when it's <1.5 square miles. I'm not sure where you got that Hall was only developing 1.5 square miles. Heres from the article: "Hall hired Ellis Mills Public Affairs, and kept buying land. As of June, his foundation had purchased 1,263.9 acres, spending $4.9 million. And that wasn’t all. He soon revealed he didn’t want just one Edenic settlement in Vermont. He hoped to build 1,000 NewVistas developments, housing 20 million people."
bluebell Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) 18 minutes ago, JulieM said: I'm not sure where you got that Hall was only developing 1.5 square miles. Heres from the article: "Hall hired Ellis Mills Public Affairs, and kept buying land. As of June, his foundation had purchased 1,263.9 acres, spending $4.9 million. And that wasn’t all. He soon revealed he didn’t want just one Edenic settlement in Vermont. He hoped to build 1,000 NewVistas developments, housing 20 million people." One square mile is 640 square acres. So that means it's closer to two square miles than 1.5. Edited July 23, 2016 by bluebell
JulieM Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 29 minutes ago, bluebell said: One square mile is 640 square acres. So that means it's closer to two square miles than 1.5. Yup. Any way you look at it, that's a large piece of land and he plans on buying and developing more. It'll be interesting to watch and see what he does there.
bluebell Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 12 minutes ago, JulieM said: Yup. Any way you look at it, that's a large piece of land and he plans on buying and developing more. It'll be interesting to watch and see what he does there. It's a little smaller than Central Park. About half the size of Nauvoo. That's probably really big to some people and not that big to others I guess, depending on where the person is from. Either way it would likely seem overwhelming to neighboring communities and raise some eyebrows. It's one thing to have a ranch or farm that size, but a community of people on private land living in their own closed society would seem weird to most people's standards. 1
Tacenda Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, bluebell said: It's a little smaller than Central Park. About half the size of Nauvoo. That's probably really big to some people and not that big to others I guess, depending on where the person is from. Either way it would likely seem overwhelming to neighboring communities and raise some eyebrows. It's one thing to have a ranch or farm that size, but a community of people on private land living in their own closed society would seem weird to most people's standards. I agree with Calm, it's fine if that's what people want in their towns, but not areas like Provo and Vermont, that don't want it. Can't he find a place that does and doesn't already have a community that like to keep it that way. This guy seems a bit heartless IMO. Edited July 23, 2016 by Tacenda 1
Jane_Doe Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 1 hour ago, JulieM said: I'm not sure where you got that Hall was only developing 1.5 square miles. The first paragraph, in which it claimed he bought 900 acres, or 1.4 sq mi.
Guest Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 On July 21, 2016 at 1:33 AM, Tacenda said: SteveO, this guy wants to buy up a bunch of land near BYU campus and the MTC too. And I would guess Jackson County, MO. I have known a number of people who have sought and some who have bought land in and around Jackson County. I had one friend who sought land in and around Nauvoo, but never in Jackson County, MO, because of a prophecy by Joseph that it would be left desolate shortly before the Saints return. The Church however owns 10's of thousands of acres (did I spell that right?), all over Jackson and surrounding counties.
JulieM Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 3 hours ago, Jane_Doe said: The first paragraph, in which it claimed he bought 900 acres, or 1.4 sq mi. You should read the entire article. He bought more land than that and has plans for even more purchases.
Calm Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 His website states the size of one community plat is 2.88 sq miles. http://www.newvistasfoundation.org/labs-detail.php?&newInfosID=160 The plan is each Newvista settlement to be 50 of these plats interlocking with each other, side by side: http://www.newvistasfoundation.org/labs-detail.php?&newInfosID=160 So say ultimately around 140 sq miles. Given that BYU itself is 560 acres and he is buying land on the north boundary of BYU for one of his plats, it would appear he eventually intends to take over the North Provo area at the very least. 1
Calm Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 Just as an FYI, Provo itself is 44 sq miles with about a third of that mountain, so about 30 sq miles of workable land.
SteveO Posted July 23, 2016 Author Posted July 23, 2016 2 hours ago, Pa Pa said: And I would guess Jackson County, MO. I have known a number of people who have sought and some who have bought land in and around Jackson County. I had one friend who sought land in and around Nauvoo, but never in Jackson County, MO, because of a prophecy by Joseph that it would be left desolate shortly before the Saints return. The Church however owns 10's of thousands of acres (did I spell that right?), all over Jackson and surrounding counties. I didn't think everyone would be physically going to Missouri though...I thought Zion would occur wherever the saints gathered themselves. Zion would essentially be a bunch of communities scattered throughout the world--which is why I thought this article was so interesting. It looks like the guy is trying to actively establish "Zion communities" 1
cinepro Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 On 7/20/2016 at 6:30 PM, Glenn101 said: It has very little to do with the LDS Church except that it involves an idea spawned by Joseph Smith and a friend. Glenn A developer moving into a community, buying land with utopian visions and upsetting the natives? Yeah, that doesn't sound like Mormonism at all.
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