cinepro Posted July 17, 2016 Posted July 17, 2016 In Greg Prince's recent bio of Leonard Arrington, he includes a list that Arrington made in his personal journal entitled "Things I Don't Like About the Church." The most interesting one being #2... Appointing the highest tithe payers to positions of leadership rather than the most capable or worthy. In choosing stake leaders, the General Authority comes with a list of the 15 or 20 highest tithe payers and starts down the list to choose a stake president and high council. p.133 2
Duncan Posted July 17, 2016 Posted July 17, 2016 Honestly I think that may have been true back then but I know for a fact that the highest tithe paying member in our stake (my bro is the stake clerk) is in my ward and he has never been in a stake presidency and he was released as a Bishop a year ago, he quit the calling. I couldn't even tell you who is on our HC, other than that guy who attends the Catholic Church and another guy who was partially active in the Church up until he got that call, he spoke to us today
ALarson Posted July 17, 2016 Posted July 17, 2016 (edited) 32 minutes ago, cinepro said: In Greg Prince's recent bio of Leonard Arrington, he includes a list that Arrington made in his personal journal entitled "Things I Don't Like About the Church." The most interesting one being #2... 32 minutes ago, cinepro said: Appointing the highest tithe payers to positions of leadership rather than the most capable or worthy. In choosing stake leaders, the General Authority comes with a list of the 15 or 20 highest tithe payers and starts down the list to choose a stake president and high council. p.133 That is interesting because as I think back on all the stake president (who I can remember) in my lifetime, they all have been quite well to do and some have been extremely wealthy. I don't know what others have experienced, but this is mine. I can see the wisdom in doing this actually. Those men who are successful in their careers are also some of the strongest leaders. They are also some who are able to spend more time in church service without it being a financial hardship or a burden on their families. Of course, this is speaking in generalities and some of the most humble, hard working and best leaders I've known have been some of the most financially less well off. . Edited July 17, 2016 by ALarson 4
Popular Post Freedom Posted July 17, 2016 Popular Post Posted July 17, 2016 29 minutes ago, cinepro said: In Greg Prince's recent bio of Leonard Arrington, he includes a list that Arrington made in his personal journal entitled "Things I Don't Like About the Church." The most interesting one being #2... He sounds more like a bitter underemployed underachiever lamenting the fact that successful hard working people also tend to have higher incomes. There is no such list, this is just conjecture on his part. The stake president is to provide three names of candidates, then the general authority will meet with members of the high council, bishops, and often former bishops. They are each to come to the interview with two names they feel would be good candidates. The general authority then selects the next president by inspiration. None of the candidates are asked their income, and the general authority does not have a copy of their tithing contributions on hand. He may be a well respected academic,but he needs to take a course in economics. Church administration is more than just about being worthy. It is about having the skills to work a job, care for your family, and to administer a 3-5,000 member organization with a budget of $200,000. It is a huge responsibility and it requires more than just prayer and faith. 10
Popular Post mfbukowski Posted July 17, 2016 Popular Post Posted July 17, 2016 (edited) 54 minutes ago, cinepro said: In Greg Prince's recent bio of Leonard Arrington, he includes a list that Arrington made in his personal journal entitled "Things I Don't Like About the Church." The most interesting one being #2... TOTAL bull stuff. I have been through three of those interviews and I am not even close to being even a "high" tithe payer in our stake, AND I know of may righteous men who paid 3 times my tithing- I know because I was their bishop- who were not interviewed Those interviewed are the stake HC and the bishops, typically GA's do NOT pick the High Council, they are called by the SP and sustained by the High Council. Edited July 17, 2016 by mfbukowski 7
mfbukowski Posted July 17, 2016 Posted July 17, 2016 15 minutes ago, Freedom said: He sounds more like a bitter underemployed underachiever lamenting the fact that successful hard working people also tend to have higher incomes. There is no such list, this is just conjecture on his part. The stake president is to provide three names of candidates, then the general authority will meet with members of the high council, bishops, and often former bishops. They are each to come to the interview with two names they feel would be good candidates. The general authority then selects the next president by inspiration. None of the candidates are asked their income, and the general authority does not have a copy of their tithing contributions on hand. He may be a well respected academic,but he needs to take a course in economics. Church administration is more than just about being worthy. It is about having the skills to work a job, care for your family, and to administer a 3-5,000 member organization with a budget of $200,000. It is a huge responsibility and it requires more than just prayer and faith. Thats it exactly
Popular Post jkwilliams Posted July 17, 2016 Popular Post Posted July 17, 2016 (edited) You'd have to be a fool to believe Leonard Arrington was an underachiever who didn't understand how the church works. I have no idea how they do such things, but it would explain how my friend's marginally believing bank president father was called as stake president. I do know that when I was elders quorum president and our bishop was moving, the stake president interviewed all of us in priesthood leadership and asked us for 3 names each. Edited July 17, 2016 by jkwilliams 9
JulieM Posted July 17, 2016 Posted July 17, 2016 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Freedom said: He sounds more like a bitter underemployed underachiever lamenting the fact that successful hard working people also tend to have higher incomes. If you've read or studied Arrington's life, you'd know this does not describe him at all. He was definitely not an "underachiever". Edited July 17, 2016 by JulieM 4
ALarson Posted July 17, 2016 Posted July 17, 2016 (edited) 20 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: GA's do NOT pick the High Council, they are called by the SP and sustained by the High Council. But they do determine who is going to be the next Stake President, don't they? (GA's) That may be what Arrington was referring to (?) I agree as far as High Counselmen. Many are successful businessmen or are wealthy, but not all that I have known have been. . Edited July 17, 2016 by ALarson 1
cinepro Posted July 17, 2016 Author Posted July 17, 2016 I should have noted that the date of the journal entry is August 17, 1992. And of course the observation may have been based on something he saw or heard from earlier in his life. 3
Five Solas Posted July 17, 2016 Posted July 17, 2016 In my experience, if you were a dentist or orthodontist--you stood a inordinate chance of getting the call. If not to SP, at least bishop... ;0) I realize that likely doesn't contradict the OP. --Erik
Popular Post Nevo Posted July 18, 2016 Popular Post Posted July 18, 2016 1 hour ago, Freedom said: He may be a well respected academic,but he needs to take a course in economics. LOL. Does a Ph.D in Economics count? 6
jkwilliams Posted July 18, 2016 Posted July 18, 2016 1 minute ago, Nevo said: LOL. Does a Ph.D in Economics count? Maybe he minored in underachieving. 4
Rain Posted July 18, 2016 Posted July 18, 2016 2 hours ago, cinepro said: In Greg Prince's recent bio of Leonard Arrington, he includes a list that Arrington made in his personal journal entitled "Things I Don't Like About the Church." The most interesting one being #2... That's a link to the book on Amazon. Did you read the book? If not, where did you find this?
mfbukowski Posted July 18, 2016 Posted July 18, 2016 1 hour ago, mfbukowski said: TOTAL bull stuff. I have been through three of those interviews and I am not even close to being even a "high" tithe payer in our stake, AND I know of may righteous men who paid 3 times my tithing- I know because I was their bishop- who were not interviewed Those interviewed are the stake HC and the bishops, typically GA's do NOT pick the High Council, they are called by the SP and sustained by the High Council. And yes I should add to that that we were to pick three names and submit them.
mfbukowski Posted July 18, 2016 Posted July 18, 2016 1 hour ago, jkwilliams said: You'd have to be a fool to believe Leonard Arrington was an underachiever who didn't understand how the church works. I have no idea how they do such things, but it would explain how my friend's marginally believing bank president father was called as stake president. I do know that when I was elders quorum president and our bishop was moving, the stake president interviewed all of us in priesthood leadership and asked us for 3 names each. Yessiree that bank president sure was stupid if he did not believe to pay that much tithing then. Figure it out. Even if it WAS based on tithing there had to be SOME faithfulness behind it, or they were fools
Monster Posted July 18, 2016 Posted July 18, 2016 The church is run by businessmen for the most part. It makes sense they would look for men who are succesful. Lets face it. Someone who works at the local convince store is never going to ba able to devote the time required to be a SP. They are probably working two jobs. For all the platitudes the church pays to the down and out they will never let them run the show. 3
Tacenda Posted July 18, 2016 Posted July 18, 2016 10 minutes ago, Monster said: The church is run by businessmen for the most part. It makes sense they would look for men who are succesful. Lets face it. Someone who works at the local convince store is never going to ba able to devote the time required to be a SP. They are probably working two jobs. For all the platitudes the church pays to the down and out they will never let them run the show. That has been my experience, only remember one bishop who wasn't white collar. He was a carpenter, which was pretty nice...Jesus being one also. 3
Guest Posted July 18, 2016 Posted July 18, 2016 3 hours ago, cinepro said: In Greg Prince's recent bio of Leonard Arrington, he includes a list that Arrington made in his personal journal entitled "Things I Don't Like About the Church." The most interesting one being #2... Having served with our recent Stake President when he was our Bishop, I can assure you that he would not have fit within the top 100 of our Stake.
Duncan Posted July 18, 2016 Posted July 18, 2016 14 minutes ago, Tacenda said: That has been my experience, only remember one bishop who wasn't white collar. He was a carpenter, which was pretty nice...Jesus being one also. in my experience the two worst Bishops i've had were a pharmacist and a janitor/beekeeper! hahha!
JulieM Posted July 18, 2016 Posted July 18, 2016 26 minutes ago, Monster said: The church is run by businessmen for the most part. It makes sense they would look for men who are succesful. Lets face it. Someone who works at the local convince store is never going to ba able to devote the time required to be a SP. They are probably working two jobs. For all the platitudes the church pays to the down and out they will never let them run the show. It's funny to see people on here poo poo this like it's awful if it's true. If we're honest, how many on here have had a SP who wasn't a successful businessman, Doctor, lawyer or so on? Maybe here and there, there has been a financially struggling SP called, but I've never seen this and I've been active my entire life. Even in poor countries, the leaders are usually those who have been most successful in business. I think this makes perfect sense for reasons others have stated. And why wouldn't the leaders look at tithing revenue to narrow it down and find these leaders? I'm sure it's only one aspect as they'd need to be spiritually faithful and committed too, of course. 1
Popular Post Hamba Tuhan Posted July 18, 2016 Popular Post Posted July 18, 2016 29 minutes ago, Monster said: For all the platitudes the church pays to the down and out they will never let them run the show. As if your saying this somehow makes it so, when in fact it's complete nonsense. When I was in high school, one of the cleaners at my school was the local stake president. In Indonesia, one of our branch presidents was a becak driver: The bishop who sent me on my mission worked in a mine, four days on, four days off. But please don't let my real-world examples stop you from telling yourself comfortable, self-validating untruths. 6
jkwilliams Posted July 18, 2016 Posted July 18, 2016 1 minute ago, Duncan said: in my experience the two worst Bishops i've had were a pharmacist and a janitor/beekeeper! hahha! I don't think I've ever had a bishop I didn't like.
Hamba Tuhan Posted July 18, 2016 Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) By the way, my father, who served in the bishopric from the time I was 5 till the time I was 15, worked three jobs to support our family. He certainly didn't have the time (or means), but everyone knew that he had a willing heart. Edited July 18, 2016 by Hamba Tuhan 4
JulieM Posted July 18, 2016 Posted July 18, 2016 10 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: By the way, my father, who served in the bishopric from the time I was 5 till the time I was 15, worked three jobs to support our family. He certainly didn't have the time (or means), but everyone knew that he had a willing heart. I've seen struggling members (financially) called into bishoprics too. But not called to be SP.
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