Happy Polygamy Day!

[Jeanne]

5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I've never once heard a lesson on polygamy in GD class, not saying it doesn't happen. What has been your experience with this JLH? 

You know...GD misses out..at least in my days..I wish that i would have raised my hand and say...Let's Talk About This!  I would have listened and been so involved and not just talking about doctrine..but how it affects our lives!  I wanna do over..

[strappinglad]

In reviewing Genesis for a different topic, I noticed that the first mention of polygamy comes with Lamach, the offspring of Cain. I try not to assume too much , but there would have to have been some relationships between close relatives for the first 500 years at least. Oh that's right, metaphor , metaphor, keep thinking metaphor...

[rodheadlee]

6 hours ago, Jeanne said:

 I wanna do over..

Totally possible Jeanne, we all love you. 

[Stargazer]

On 7/12/2016 at 7:53 PM, Tacenda said:

I don't have anything bad to say for those women that need a husband in the hereafter and there aren't enough men around. Just as we were told happened in the early church, with polygamy it was because there were women that were widowed etc.

I have a friend that has never married, she's holding hope for a chance in the hereafter, if that means a polygamous marriage and it's the only way, I'm glad for it. I know JL, don't have a heart attack.

My late wife once told me about a dream she had, in which after this life I had been assigned another wife in addition to her.  She didn't seem too upset about the idea, but also wasn't all that enthusiastic about it.  I don't know if her dream was a personal revelation or came as a result of what she ate before going to bed that night. 

After her passing and my remarriage, I have learned that I am quite capable of loving two women with equal intensity.  My new wife was previously sealed to an faithful priesthood holder, and so she will not be mine after this life, and it does distress me some.  As it does her!  But we both know the score, and expect that in the resurrection we will be content with being merely good friends.  

[nuclearfuels]

On 7/13/2016 at 11:12 AM, JLHPROF said:

When did polygamy become a false, evil, bad, hate it practice? In Nauvoo or Israel? When practiced by the first Prophets or our Prophet?

Or When Christ practiced it?  The same Christ who did nothing except that which he saw his Father do?
 

These responses are beautiful and I applaud them.

Whether Muslim, Mormon, Christian, or of almost any other religion, your ancestors practiced polygamy in a beautiful and edifying way.  Bringing more children into this world is a wonderful blessing and since demographic data shows collapsing fertility rates in almost every country, especially "developed" and "advanced" countries, legalizing and then subsidizing child birth and plural marriage is the only way to  save our heritage and posterity.

 

Old Testament kings, prophets, and other leaders who practiced polygamy, include: Lamech, Abraham, Jacob, Esau, Moses, Gideon, Saul, David, Solomon, Rehoboam, Elkanah, Ashur, Abijah, Jehoiada, Ahab, Ahasuerus, Ashur, Belshazzar, Benhadad, Caleb, Eliphaz, Ezra, Jehoiachin, Jehoram, Jerahmeel, Joash, Machir, Manasseh, Mered, Nahor, Shaharaim, Simeon, and Zedekiah.

 

Latter-day Saints practiced polygamy for about 50 years during the 1800s and “officially ceased the practice of such marriages after the Manifesto1 was issued by President Woodruff in 1890.”2 After signing the Morrill Anti-Bigamy Act3 in 1862 Abraham Lincoln “reportedly compared the Mormon Church to a log he had encountered as a farmer” and said that the occasional log was “‘too hard to split, too wet to burn and too heavy to move, so we plow around it. That’s what I intend to do with the Mormons. You go back and tell Brigham Young that if he will let me alone, I will let him alone.’"4 In Reynolds v. U.S., 98 U.S. 145 (1878) ruling, the U.S. Supreme Court’s unanimous verdict prohibiting polygamy, intruded not only into the LDS right to the free exercise of religion, but forbad the same right of marital practice for the Buddhist (Aiken, p.74), Hinduism,5 Judaic,6 and Islamic religions as well.7

In Reynolds v. U.S., 98 U.S. 145 (1878) ruling, the U.S. Supreme Court’s unanimous verdict prohibiting polygamy, intruded not only into the LDS right to the free exercise of religion, but forbad the same right of marital practice for the Buddhist (Aiken, p.74), Hinduism,5 Judaic,6 and Islamic religions as well.7

1. http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/od/1?lang=eng
2. http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?locale=0&sourceId=9887ec6f164b2110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD
3. 37th United States Congress, Sess. 2., ch. 126, 12 Stat. 501
4. Firmage, Edwin Brown; Mangrum, Richard Collin (2001), Zion in the courts, University of Illinois Press, p. 139, ISBN 0252069803, http://books.google.com/?id=9AimifP2a-4C
5. Gallichan, Walter M. “Women Under Polygamy.” Dodd, Mead. pg. 92
6. Genesis 16:1–3; 29:23–30; 30:4, 9; Exodus 21:10, Deuteronomy 21:15-17, and 17:17; Judges 8:30; 1 Samuel 1:1–2; KJV of the Bible and Gallichan, p.43-45
7. Gallichan, p.31, Khadduri. Majid. Marriage in Islamic Law: The Modernist Viewpoints. The American Journal of Comparative Law. 26. 2:213-218. Spring, 1978, and Amin Ahsan Islahi, Tadabbur-i-Qur’an, 2nd ed., vol. 2, (Lahore: Faran Foundation, 1986), p. 400

On 7/13/2016 at 11:12 AM, JLHPROF said:

 

 

[nuclearfuels]

I think when / if we make it back to the Highest Degree of the Celestial Kingdom, where an infinite amount of Beings have infinite resources and infinite emotional capacities, and perfect, Resurrected bodies and all heights, depths, thrones, principalities, powers, dominions, etc., I imagine we'll accept whatever calling God gives us, including polygamy.  I mean, think about it - there must be some kind of time line or chart or motivation to progress in a timely way... or maybe we just compete with each other on who can reach the level of godhood quicker, who can populate their own planet more quickly, who can have the most fun with their posterity, etc.

D&C 132:19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.

[Jeanne]

On 7/13/2016 at 0:44 AM, VideoGameJunkie said:

I will be 100 percent honest. When it comes to thinking about polygamy being a celestial order, I'm happy that im a man. I can't imagine what women must fear or suffer through.

Why would you be happy as a man if you feel that maybe women suffer..that would be counter to the true meaning of love and compassion for all. 

[Jeanne]

On 7/13/2016 at 9:23 PM, rodheadlee said:

Totally possible Jeanne, we all love you. 

I don't know of anyone here that would want me to sit in on a Gospel Doctrine class.    I do appreciate your love and concern.  Hope to hear from others that there are new conversations in your SS classes.

Hugs..Jeanne

[JLHPROF]

1 hour ago, Jeanne said:

Why would you be happy as a man if you feel that maybe women suffer..that would be counter to the true meaning of love and compassion for all.

Nobody will suffer in the next life from living a law of God.
Any imagined suffering from living a law of God is purely a function of mortality.

1 hour ago, Jeanne said:

I don't know of anyone here that would want me to sit in on a Gospel Doctrine class.    I do appreciate your love and concern.  Hope to hear from others that there are new conversations in your SS classes.

I'd be fine with it.
Personally, I wish GD classes would go off manual a little more.
Then we might actually learn something we didn't know the last time we went through the manual.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

I think when / if we make it back to the Highest Degree of the Celestial Kingdom, where an infinite amount of Beings have infinite resources and infinite emotional capacities, and perfect, Resurrected bodies and all heights, depths, thrones, principalities, powers, dominions, etc., I imagine we'll accept whatever calling God gives us, including polygamy.

Do you accept that polygamy may include polyandry as well as polygyny (as in women will have all their loved ones restored to them just as men are promised)?

[Tacenda]

https://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Eternal-Polygamy-Haunting-Hearts/dp/0997458208/ref=sr_1_10?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1468556308&sr=1-10&keywords=carol+lynn+pearson

“Polygamy?” says the mainstream Mormon Church. “We gave that up long ago.” Not so, claims noted LDS poet and author Carol Lynn Pearson, who examines the issue as it has never been examined before. Any member of the LDS Church today who enters the practice of polygamy is immediately excommunicated. However, Pearson claims, polygamy itself has never been excommunicated, but has an honored and protected place at the table. It has only been postponed, a fact confirmed by thousands of “eternal sealings” giving a man an assurance that he will claim as wives in heaven the two, three, or even more women he has sequentially married during his lifetime. No such opportunity is available to women. Through her own personal stories, those of her ancestors, and the thousands of stories that came to her through an Internet survey, Pearson shows the power of the Ghost of Eternal Polygamy as it not only waits on the other side to greet the most righteous in heaven, but also haunts the living—hiding in the recesses of the Mormon psyche, inflicting profound pain and fear, assuring women that they are still objects, harming or destroying marriages, bringing chaos to family relationships, leading many to lose faith in the church and in God. Mormon historian and author Dr. Gregory Prince says of The Ghost of Eternal Polygamy: “Carol Lynn Pearson has hit a home run in her quest to illuminate both the damage that Mormonism’s de facto practice of polygamy continues to inflict, and the route to a better, more humane place. Those who truly hope for eternal polygamy or who resent any call to institutional reform will be upset, but countless others will rejoice that she has shown ‘a more excellent way.’ ”

[Jeanne]

13 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

https://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Eternal-Polygamy-Haunting-Hearts/dp/0997458208/ref=sr_1_10?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1468556308&sr=1-10&keywords=carol+lynn+pearson

“Polygamy?” says the mainstream Mormon Church. “We gave that up long ago.” Not so, claims noted LDS poet and author Carol Lynn Pearson, who examines the issue as it has never been examined before. Any member of the LDS Church today who enters the practice of polygamy is immediately excommunicated. However, Pearson claims, polygamy itself has never been excommunicated, but has an honored and protected place at the table. It has only been postponed, a fact confirmed by thousands of “eternal sealings” giving a man an assurance that he will claim as wives in heaven the two, three, or even more women he has sequentially married during his lifetime. No such opportunity is available to women. Through her own personal stories, those of her ancestors, and the thousands of stories that came to her through an Internet survey, Pearson shows the power of the Ghost of Eternal Polygamy as it not only waits on the other side to greet the most righteous in heaven, but also haunts the living—hiding in the recesses of the Mormon psyche, inflicting profound pain and fear, assuring women that they are still objects, harming or destroying marriages, bringing chaos to family relationships, leading many to lose faith in the church and in God. Mormon historian and author Dr. Gregory Prince says of The Ghost of Eternal Polygamy: “Carol Lynn Pearson has hit a home run in her quest to illuminate both the damage that Mormonism’s de facto practice of polygamy continues to inflict, and the route to a better, more humane place. Those who truly hope for eternal polygamy or who resent any call to institutional reform will be upset, but countless others will rejoice that she has shown ‘a more excellent way.’ ”

And there it is.  One of the key reasons that I have never saw anything in the Celestial Kingdom that I desired  Other than to be with the Savior, which I think I can still do, I don't see putting my loved ones through the chaos of what is defined as an eternal family.. Personally, I don't think it is a good plan..and will be happy to wave at y'all from another kingdom.

[JLHPROF]

22 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

https://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Eternal-Polygamy-Haunting-Hearts/dp/0997458208/ref=sr_1_10?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1468556308&sr=1-10&keywords=carol+lynn+pearson

“Polygamy?” says the mainstream Mormon Church. “We gave that up long ago.” Not so, claims noted LDS poet and author Carol Lynn Pearson, who examines the issue as it has never been examined before. Any member of the LDS Church today who enters the practice of polygamy is immediately excommunicated. However, Pearson claims, polygamy itself has never been excommunicated, but has an honored and protected place at the table. It has only been postponed, a fact confirmed by thousands of “eternal sealings” giving a man an assurance that he will claim as wives in heaven the two, three, or even more women he has sequentially married during his lifetime. No such opportunity is available to women. Through her own personal stories, those of her ancestors, and the thousands of stories that came to her through an Internet survey, Pearson shows the power of the Ghost of Eternal Polygamy as it not only waits on the other side to greet the most righteous in heaven, but also haunts the living—hiding in the recesses of the Mormon psyche, inflicting profound pain and fear, assuring women that they are still objects, harming or destroying marriages, bringing chaos to family relationships, leading many to lose faith in the church and in God. Mormon historian and author Dr. Gregory Prince says of The Ghost of Eternal Polygamy: “Carol Lynn Pearson has hit a home run in her quest to illuminate both the damage that Mormonism’s de facto practice of polygamy continues to inflict, and the route to a better, more humane place. Those who truly hope for eternal polygamy or who resent any call to institutional reform will be upset, but countless others will rejoice that she has shown ‘a more excellent way.’ ”

Got a FB notification she will be speaking at Benchmark Books Wed Aug 3rd 5:30pm.

Somehow given her perspective that polygamy is damaging in and of itself I think I'll give this one a miss.

[Tacenda]

8 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Got a FB notification she will be speaking at Benchmark Books Wed Aug 3rd 5:30pm.

Somehow given her perspective that polygamy is damaging in and of itself I think I'll give this one a miss.

I excitedly shared this c/p from Amazon, but hadn't read it all the way through. She sure didn't include much positive about polygamy. 

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

Nobody will suffer in the next life from living a law of God.
Any imagined suffering from living a law of God is purely a function of mortality.

I'd be fine with it.
Personally, I wish GD classes would go off manual a little more.
Then we might actually learn something we didn't know the last time we went through the manual.

We'd definitely be inoculated, that's for sure. But apparently that's just for the younger generation.

[VideoGameJunkie]

Here's a quote from a modern day apostle Bruce R McConkie, where he's denouncing the Adam-God doctrine and near the end takes a stance against polygamy.

In 1980, apostle Bruce R McConkie gave a speech elaborating upon the church's position towards the Adam–God theory:

"There are those who believe or say they believe that Adam is our father and our god, that he is the father of our spirits and our bodies, and that he is the one we worship.

The devil keeps this heresy alive as a means of obtaining converts to cultism. It is contrary to the whole plan of salvation set forth in the scriptures, and anyone who has read the Book of Moses, and anyone who has received the temple endowment and who yet believes the Adam–God theory does not deserve to be saved.* Those who are so ensnared reject the living prophet and close their ears to the apostles of their day. "We will follow those who went before," they say. And having so determined, they soon are ready to enter polygamous relationships that destroy their souls.

We worship the Father, in the name of the Son, by the power of the Holy Ghost; and Adam is their foremost servant, by whom the peopling of our planet was commenced."

[JLHPROF]

Just now, VideoGameJunkie said:

Here's a quote from a modern day apostle Bruce R McConkie, where he's denouncing the Adam-God doctrine and near the end takes a stance against polygamy.

In 1980, apostle Bruce R McConkie gave a speech elaborating upon the church's position towards the Adam–God theory:

"There are those who believe or say they believe that Adam is our father and our god, that he is the father of our spirits and our bodies, and that he is the one we worship.

The devil keeps this heresy alive as a means of obtaining converts to cultism. It is contrary to the whole plan of salvation set forth in the scriptures, and anyone who has read the Book of Moses, and anyone who has received the temple endowment and who yet believes the Adam–God theory does not deserve to be saved.* Those who are so ensnared reject the living prophet and close their ears to the apostles of their day. "We will follow those who went before," they say. And having so determined, they soon are ready to enter polygamous relationships that destroy their souls.

We worship the Father, in the name of the Son, by the power of the Holy Ghost; and Adam is their foremost servant, by whom the peopling of our planet was commenced."

That is no stance against polygamy.  Read it again.

That is a stance against being led into fundamentalism by Adam-God and then entering into unauthorized polygamous relationships.
 

[Tacenda]

2 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

Here's a quote from a modern day apostle Bruce R McConkie, where he's denouncing the Adam-God doctrine and near the end takes a stance against polygamy.

In 1980, apostle Bruce R McConkie gave a speech elaborating upon the church's position towards the Adam–God theory:

"There are those who believe or say they believe that Adam is our father and our god, that he is the father of our spirits and our bodies, and that he is the one we worship.

The devil keeps this heresy alive as a means of obtaining converts to cultism. It is contrary to the whole plan of salvation set forth in the scriptures, and anyone who has read the Book of Moses, and anyone who has received the temple endowment and who yet believes the Adam–God theory does not deserve to be saved.* Those who are so ensnared reject the living prophet and close their ears to the apostles of their day. "We will follow those who went before," they say. And having so determined, they soon are ready to enter polygamous relationships that destroy their souls.

We worship the Father, in the name of the Son, by the power of the Holy Ghost; and Adam is their foremost servant, by whom the peopling of our planet was commenced."

whoa...sorry JLH.

[JLHPROF]

3 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

whoa...sorry JLH.

For what?
I frequently disagree with McConkie, and VGJ misinterpreted his quote.

 

[Tacenda]

Just now, JLHPROF said:

For what?
I frequently disagree with McConkie, and VGJ misinterpreted his quote.

 

Just my mood today.

[VideoGameJunkie]

1 hour ago, Jeanne said:

And there it is.  One of the key reasons that I have never saw anything in the Celestial Kingdom that I desired  Other than to be with the Savior, which I think I can still do, I don't see putting my loved ones through the chaos of what is defined as an eternal family.. Personally, I don't think it is a good plan..and will be happy to wave at y'all from another kingdom.

You can still achieve the 2nd level or middle level of the Celestial Kingdom without being sealed to a spouse. And you will be very happy in the Celestial Kingdom. That's why there's 3 levels.

[Jeanne]

16 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

You can still achieve the 2nd level or middle level of the Celestial Kingdom without being sealed to a spouse. And you will be very happy in the Celestial Kingdom. That's why there's 3 levels.

 

16 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

You can still achieve the 2nd level or middle level of the Celestial Kingdom without being sealed to a spouse. And you will be very happy in the Celestial Kingdom. That's why there's 3 levels.

 Okay...I will take that...and I will take back my husband too!

[VideoGameJunkie]

3 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

For what?
I frequently disagree with McConkie, and VGJ misinterpreted his quote.

 

How is the quote to be correctly interpreted? Im open to learning.

[carbon dioxide]

On 7/12/2016 at 8:58 PM, ttribe said:

Lovely.  I'm sure there are a number of runaway girls from Colorado City (aka Short Creek) who would find it utterly horrifying to engage in "celebration" of the institution of polygamy.  Way to go, JLH.

I am sure one can find a lot of girls who escaped from very bad monogamous families.  The fact that some people practice polygamy badly does not mean that it always bad. 

[carbon dioxide]

 

On 7/13/2016 at 9:32 AM, Buckeye said:

I believe some of section 132. The good parts.

So you only accept the revelations from God if they appeal to you personally.  The bad stuff you don't believe?  If that is a valid way to view scripture, one can use that regarding a 1000 issues.