strappinglad Posted July 19, 2016 Posted July 19, 2016 We might also be aware that the relationships forged in the heavens may be completely unlike what we have here. As Stargazer has said, exaltation is so far away from our limited thinking that we are foolish to speculate. The quote ,I think, is " not only is the universe stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we CAN imagine." I believe the same holds true for our heavenly relationships. Some assume that polygamy is a higher law than monogamy. Is it possible that there is a higher law still that we have not been informed of because we would " shatter like glass ' ? There I go speculating again. 4
VideoGameJunkie Posted July 19, 2016 Posted July 19, 2016 All I know is there will be no jealousy or hatred as an exalted being so whatever happens everyone should still be really happy for eternity.
JLHPROF Posted July 19, 2016 Author Posted July 19, 2016 6 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said: All I know is there will be no jealousy or hatred as an exalted being so whatever happens everyone should still be really happy for eternity. For those that are willing to live all of God's laws. Scriptures and prophets are clear that there will be much sadness for those who end up missing out because they rejected laws, blessings and opportunities.
VideoGameJunkie Posted July 19, 2016 Posted July 19, 2016 44 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: For those that are willing to live all of God's laws. Scriptures and prophets are clear that there will be much sadness for those who end up missing out because they rejected laws, blessings and opportunities. Well I agree to want to live all of God's laws and opportunities.
Tacenda Posted July 19, 2016 Posted July 19, 2016 http://www.mormonmatters.org/2016/07/18/336-the-ghost-of-eternal-polygamy/ In this episode, author Carol Lynn Pearson joins Mormon Matters host, Dan Wotherspoon, for a one-on-one conversation about her new and extremely powerful book, The Ghost of Eternal Polygamy: Haunting the Hearts and Heaven of Mormon Women and Men. In it, Carol Lynn embraces two roles: the first, the position that many have ascribed to her of “wise-woman elder”; the second, “storyteller,” which role no one has ever filled better. From the gifts associated with these titles and her own huge heart and great power drawn from her love of her Mormon people, including its founder who instigated the practice and doctrine of plural marriage, she presents the most compelling portrait to date of the dramatic, heartbreaking, confusing, and emotionally devastating effects of polygamy’s continued haunting presence in today’s Mormonism, a Mormonism that ostensibly ended the practice of plural marriage more than a century ago. Through wonderful confluences of her own stories, the stories of women and men in early Mormonism, as well as stories drawn from thousands of responses she received from people who participated in a survey asking about their understandings of polygamy in past-, present-, and future-day Mormonism, along with terrific research and gathering of wonderful insights from Mormon and non-Mormon teachers and scholars, a compelling picture emerges that strongly suggests it is time to admit the practice is, and has always been, a terrible mistake—one that produces pain and heartache and leads to distancing from God and our highest selves. It is certainly not God’s own form of marriage, nor the Divine’s desires for us. In beautiful and loving ways, Carol Lynn shares reasons for seeing this conclusion about polygamy’s origins in Joseph Smith’s mind and actions as the most forgiving and healing stance toward it we can take, and one that she believes Joseph himself would agree with and encourage us to work to bring it to an end. Even amidst the many difficult topics and stories the book engages, Carol Lynn retains a positive outlook and reasons for imagining a hopeful, post-polygamous future. She does not leave us with a full de-construction without offering a new vision: moving from “Patriarchy to Partnership,” which, itself, is already a reality she and leaders she works alongside have already begun to know and embody. It is nearly impossible by book’s end for us to not want to join together with great energy in a wonderful (even worldwide, beyond Mormonism) healing adventure. Please listen to this conversation, which includes Carol Lynn reading many incredible passages from the book, and then add your thoughts, questions, and experiences in the comments section below!
VideoGameJunkie Posted July 19, 2016 Posted July 19, 2016 19 minutes ago, Tacenda said: http://www.mormonmatters.org/2016/07/18/336-the-ghost-of-eternal-polygamy/ In this episode, author Carol Lynn Pearson joins Mormon Matters host, Dan Wotherspoon, for a one-on-one conversation about her new and extremely powerful book, The Ghost of Eternal Polygamy: Haunting the Hearts and Heaven of Mormon Women and Men. In it, Carol Lynn embraces two roles: the first, the position that many have ascribed to her of “wise-woman elder”; the second, “storyteller,” which role no one has ever filled better. From the gifts associated with these titles and her own huge heart and great power drawn from her love of her Mormon people, including its founder who instigated the practice and doctrine of plural marriage, she presents the most compelling portrait to date of the dramatic, heartbreaking, confusing, and emotionally devastating effects of polygamy’s continued haunting presence in today’s Mormonism, a Mormonism that ostensibly ended the practice of plural marriage more than a century ago. Through wonderful confluences of her own stories, the stories of women and men in early Mormonism, as well as stories drawn from thousands of responses she received from people who participated in a survey asking about their understandings of polygamy in past-, present-, and future-day Mormonism, along with terrific research and gathering of wonderful insights from Mormon and non-Mormon teachers and scholars, a compelling picture emerges that strongly suggests it is time to admit the practice is, and has always been, a terrible mistake—one that produces pain and heartache and leads to distancing from God and our highest selves. It is certainly not God’s own form of marriage, nor the Divine’s desires for us. In beautiful and loving ways, Carol Lynn shares reasons for seeing this conclusion about polygamy’s origins in Joseph Smith’s mind and actions as the most forgiving and healing stance toward it we can take, and one that she believes Joseph himself would agree with and encourage us to work to bring it to an end. Even amidst the many difficult topics and stories the book engages, Carol Lynn retains a positive outlook and reasons for imagining a hopeful, post-polygamous future. She does not leave us with a full de-construction without offering a new vision: moving from “Patriarchy to Partnership,” which, itself, is already a reality she and leaders she works alongside have already begun to know and embody. It is nearly impossible by book’s end for us to not want to join together with great energy in a wonderful (even worldwide, beyond Mormonism) healing adventure. Please listen to this conversation, which includes Carol Lynn reading many incredible passages from the book, and then add your thoughts, questions, and experiences in the comments section below! Is the author a current mormon or an apostate?
Jeanne Posted July 19, 2016 Posted July 19, 2016 5 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said: Is the author a current mormon or an apostate? VGJ...what difference does it make???
Tacenda Posted July 19, 2016 Posted July 19, 2016 33 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said: Is the author a current mormon or an apostate? You don't know Carol Lynn Pearson? She's an activer member. She even has ties with General Authorities, her friends are GA's. She has published books, I believe one or two made it to the Deseret Bookstore. She wrote a Primary song...
VideoGameJunkie Posted July 19, 2016 Posted July 19, 2016 1 hour ago, Jeanne said: VGJ...what difference does it make??? An apostate would obviously write about a bad view of a law from God. But if it's a well respected mormon I might just buy the book and check it out.
VideoGameJunkie Posted July 19, 2016 Posted July 19, 2016 16 hours ago, strappinglad said: We might also be aware that the relationships forged in the heavens may be completely unlike what we have here. As Stargazer has said, exaltation is so far away from our limited thinking that we are foolish to speculate. The quote ,I think, is " not only is the universe stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we CAN imagine." I believe the same holds true for our heavenly relationships. Some assume that polygamy is a higher law than monogamy. Is it possible that there is a higher law still that we have not been informed of because we would " shatter like glass ' ? There I go speculating again. It could be the lower kingdoms like the Telestial Terrestrial and 2 lower levels of the Celestial Kingdoms will have relationships too that are better than we have on earth. Not sealings of course, but it's not good to be alone.
VideoGameJunkie Posted July 19, 2016 Posted July 19, 2016 1 hour ago, Tacenda said: You don't know Carol Lynn Pearson? She's an activer member. She even has ties with General Authorities, her friends are GA's. She has published books, I believe one or two made it to the Deseret Bookstore. She wrote a Primary song... I just ordered her book on amazon and I'll let you know how I find it.
Jeanne Posted July 19, 2016 Posted July 19, 2016 1 hour ago, VideoGameJunkie said: An apostate would obviously write about a bad view of a law from God. But if it's a well respected mormon I might just buy the book and check it out. I understand your personal feelings. But there are many respected and truthful "apostates" or exmormons that just love history. It doesn't hurt to get a different perspective on some things. I listen to you guys all the time!! 2
Tacenda Posted July 19, 2016 Posted July 19, 2016 3 hours ago, Jeanne said: I understand your personal feelings. But there are many respected and truthful "apostates" or exmormons that just love history. It doesn't hurt to get a different perspective on some things. I listen to you guys all the time!! D. Michael Quinn is working on a book about polygamy, should be good. 1
Jeanne Posted July 19, 2016 Posted July 19, 2016 5 minutes ago, Tacenda said: D. Michael Quinn is working on a book about polygamy, should be good. Keep me posted. I read all things on polygamy ..truth matters and truth doesn't have to have anything to do with an agenda.Thanks!
JLHPROF Posted July 19, 2016 Author Posted July 19, 2016 6 minutes ago, Tacenda said: D. Michael Quinn is working on a book about polygamy, should be good. Depends on whether he has a bias or not. Personally, I'm getting a little tired of so-called historians presenting twisted views and calling them history. And even more tired of people believing them. Present the history, and let us draw our own conclusions.
VideoGameJunkie Posted July 19, 2016 Posted July 19, 2016 38 minutes ago, Tacenda said: D. Michael Quinn is working on a book about polygamy, should be good. Tacenda I ordered the Carol Lynn pearson book. Should I expect a lot of feminism? If I don't like it or find it bashing prophets of the Lord too much or bashing the church to push a feminist agenda then I'll burn the book in a second. It wasn't that much money.
Tacenda Posted July 19, 2016 Posted July 19, 2016 (edited) 17 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said: Tacenda I ordered the Carol Lynn pearson book. Should I expect a lot of feminism? If I don't like it or find it bashing prophets of the Lord too much or bashing the church to push a feminist agenda then I'll burn the book in a second. It wasn't that much money. I have no idea, did you listen to the podcast? I really like the lady, what's wrong with feminism? She doesn't bash the church, she's active in the church like I said. Of course I'm pretty active too, ha,ha. Her agenda is based on polygamy, pros and cons. One point she did make was that polygamy is a big concern to many people in the church. And that the church needs to be upfront about it. In one story she mentions a bishop who was quite upset about a member who came to him concerned about her dad marrying a second wife, her mother had passed on. And this woman asked if this second wife will be with her dad also. The bishop had to tell her yes, he will have two wives. This woman took her whole family and discontinued coming to church. Another story, has a woman who struggled in her marriage because of the thought that her husband would have other wives. It disrupted so many facets of their marriage. Finally she got the okay (can't remember where), that her husband wouldn't live polygamy and it got better after that. I don't know why the church doesn't discuss polygamy in the eternities much. I'll bet JLH wishes some concrete answers were available out there. Edited July 20, 2016 by Tacenda
ksfisher Posted July 20, 2016 Posted July 20, 2016 45 minutes ago, Jeanne said: ..truth matters and truth doesn't have to have anything to do with an agenda.Thanks! Where's MBukowski when you need him... In writing history it is impossible not to have an agenda. All writers have to pick and choose what to include. All writers offer imterpretations of facts or historical events. Their writing is influenced by who they are and what they believe. No written work is completly objective or includes all the truth. A book only includes what the writer chooses to include and that equals the writers agenda (as you call it). This, at least, is what I was taught in Anthropology 101 many years go. I think it's still true. 2
VideoGameJunkie Posted July 20, 2016 Posted July 20, 2016 21 minutes ago, Tacenda said: I have no idea, did you listen to the podcast? I really like the lady, what's wrong with feminism? She doesn't bash the church, she's active in the church like I said. Of course I'm pretty active too, ha,ha. Her agenda is based on polygamy, pros and cons. One point she did make was that polygamy is a big concern to many people in the church. And that the church needs to be upfront about it. In one story she mentions a bishop who was quite upset about a member who came to him concerned about her dad marrying a second wife, her mother had passed on. And this woman asked if this second wife will be with her dad also. The bishop had to tell her yes, he will have two wives. This woman took her whole family and discontinued coming to church. Another story, has a woman who struggled in her marriage because of the thought that her husband would have other wives. It disrupted so many facets of their marriage. Finally she got the okay (can't remember where), that her husband wouldn't live polygamy and it got better after that. I don't know why the church doesn't discuss polygamy in the eternities much. I'll bet JLH wishes some concrete answers were available out there. Well ill see if she claims Joseph Smith made a mistake with polygamy.
Tacenda Posted July 20, 2016 Posted July 20, 2016 (edited) 10 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said: Well ill see if she claims Joseph Smith made a mistake with polygamy. Get ready to burn the book! Because she does mention how he may have got it wrong, and why should he be given a pass, when so many other prophets get it wrong but are still prophets. Edited July 20, 2016 by Tacenda 1
VideoGameJunkie Posted July 20, 2016 Posted July 20, 2016 1 hour ago, Tacenda said: Get ready to burn the book! Because she does mention how he may have got it wrong, and why should he be given a pass, when so many other prophets get it wrong but are still prophets. Well ill see if its bashing.
Eek! Posted July 20, 2016 Posted July 20, 2016 On 7/18/2016 at 8:13 PM, strappinglad said: Is it possible that there is a higher law still... Imo not only possible but quite likely. See the last verse of Section 132, and also this conversation between Joseph Smith and Brigham Young in 1847 in which Joseph shows Brigham a pattern which Brigham does not record, but note that Joseph keeps repeating the same exhortation over and over for some reason: https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/097-86.pdf
JLHPROF Posted July 20, 2016 Author Posted July 20, 2016 1 hour ago, Tacenda said: Get ready to burn the book! Because she does mention how he may have got it wrong, and why should he be given a pass, when so many other prophets get it wrong but are still prophets. If that's what she says the book is basically worthless. Start with a false premise and and the fruits will follow.
Tacenda Posted July 20, 2016 Posted July 20, 2016 (edited) 15 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: If that's what she says the book is basically worthless. Start with a false premise and and the fruits will follow. And I quoted without context, that just stuck out to me from the interview, and I had several distractions. I'll try to track down where in the podcast she said it. Edited July 20, 2016 by Tacenda
VideoGameJunkie Posted July 20, 2016 Posted July 20, 2016 I'll watch the podcast Tacenda posted and see if it makes me regret ordering the book. I've tossed books written by mormon authors before.
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