Missionaries detained by police

[Jeanne]

24 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

The ward or branch clerk receives membership records shortly after new baptisms. If he and the branch president/bishop have any integrity at all, they would sniff out and expose any shenanigans pulled off by unscrupulous missionaries. 

Never thought of this..but if there is accountability..it goes all over the place

[california boy]

"Kiddy baptisms" were going on in California when I was a kid as well.  I remember the missionaries having a program every Saturday to take any kid that showed up to the local swimming pool.  They would get as many as they could to attend, without their parents, and try and get them to join the church.  It did work.  I remember kids getting baptized and then a month or two later, never seeing them again.  The missionary moved on.  And the kids remained on the rolls of the church.   I am not sure how long that program lasted. 

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, chileanseabass said:

I served in Chile about 13 years ago, while Elder Holland was serving as Area President.  The days of baptizing groups of kids were long past, but the job we were tasked with was "cleanup."  My first area was a branch, that was formerly two wards.  You could walk from one end of the area to the other in around 30 minutes.  We had over 400 people on the rolls (attendance was 60-80), the majority baptized in the 80's and 90's as kids.  That branch was part of a district that used to be 2 stakes.  Everything was condensed and placed under the watch of our Mission President by Elder Holland.  Apparently, within the two stakes there were 6 full tithe paying Mel. PH holders.  Do the math. That means plenty of bishops, their counselors, high counselors, etc., not paying their tithing.  

For us, our reactivation numbers were just as, if not more, important than baptisms.  We would seek out everyone on the rolls, try to clean it up the best we could, and use that as a method to find people to teach.  I really enjoyed my time, and never felt like we were just after numbers.  That was not the impetus put on us by our president.  But we heard plenty of stories from the folks we encountered, both less actives and ward members that had served during the "glory days" of numbers... baptizing groups of kids, baptizing kids multiple times using the names of dead people, etc.  I never saw anything close to that, but it existed previously.  

Perhaps those who make an issue of the convert baptism rate remaining flat despite a striking increase in the number of missionaries need to take into account circumstances such as the above.

You did a noble work and are to be commended.

 

[jkwilliams]

15 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

The fact that you use the word normal suggests that what you are describing is, by definition, well, abnormal.

Obviously abnormal for wherever you served. Quite normal in my mission, though not as extreme as in Chile. 

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

The ward or branch clerk receives membership records shortly after new baptisms. If he and the branch president/bishop have any integrity at all, they would sniff out and expose any shenanigans pulled off by unscrupulous missionaries. 

 

52 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

I don't think it had anything to do with integrity on the part of leaders. I suspect many of these leaders had never known anything different than these "shenanigans." Most branch and ward leaders were very recent converts with little training. 

I am beginning to realize how impossible it is for people used to "normal" church procedures to understand these grossly understaffed and undertrained church units. 

Learning one's duty and fulfilling it with precision can be a problem wherever one lives or serves. I think it may have more to do with the individual than the locale, though there is definitely strength in numbers and experience.

I am acquainted with a returned missionary who served for a while on a stake Primary board. One of her duties was to help out with the stake baptisms. It was an eye-opener to her how often she had to remind bishopric members presiding over the baptisms of such fundamental elements as having two Melchizedek Priesthood holders and/or priests in place to witness the baptism. That's something you would expect someone qualified to be in a bishopric to know without being told or reminded.

 

[jkwilliams]

Just now, Scott Lloyd said:

 

Learning one's duty and fulfilling it with precision can be a problem wherever one lives or serves. I think it may have more to do with the individual than the locale, though there is definitely strength in numbers and experience.

I am acquainted with a returned missionary who served for a while on a stake Primary board. One of her duties was to help out with the stake baptisms. It was an eye-opener to her how often she had to remind bishopric members presiding over the baptisms of such fundamental elements as having two Melchizedek Priesthood holders and/or priests in place to witness the baptism. That's something you would expect someone qualified to be in a bishopric to know without being told or reminded.

 

Again, it's very difficult to describe what it's like in a stake that has no Primary board. How do you learn your duty when you can't afford the time or money to attend training meetings--and that is assuming they have training meetings, which they had only rarely?

Its difficult to have 2 Melchizedek Priesthood holders witness a baptism when you only have 1 priesthood holder in your branch, as was the case in 3 branches where I served. In one of those branches, we had 1 Aaronic Priesthood holder, but the branch president wouldn't let him help with the sacrament because he didn't own a white shirt and tie (we donated ours).

I think you have no idea how different the circumstances were. 

[chileanseabass]

1 hour ago, jkwilliams said:

Again, it's very difficult to describe what it's like in a stake that has no Primary board. How do you learn your duty when you can't afford the time or money to attend training meetings--and that is assuming they have training meetings, which they had only rarely?

Its difficult to have 2 Melchizedek Priesthood holders witness a baptism when you only have 1 priesthood holder in your branch, as was the case in 3 branches where I served. In one of those branches, we had 1 Aaronic Priesthood holder, but the branch president wouldn't let him help with the sacrament because he didn't own a white shirt and tie (we donated ours).

I think you have no idea how different the circumstances were. 

Yes. This was the biggest thing I witnessed during my time in Chile. You had leaders in place who had no training and insufficient supervision. That is precisely what Elder Holland worked to fix when he arrived, and why so much responsibility was placed on mission presidents and missionaries. My first day in Chile my mission pres handed me copies of manual 1 and 2 and told me to study them. My first Sunday, my companion and I ran PEC. It was this way in all branches (my mission had 3 districts that were formerly 5 stakes), and even some of the wards where the leaders were less experienced.

I'm a convert and had been a member around 2 1/2 years when I entered the MTC. Talk about a learning experience. I didn't even know what PEC was.

[jkwilliams]

2 minutes ago, chileanseabass said:

Yes. This was the biggest thing I witnessed during my time in Chile. You had leaders in place who had no training and insufficient supervision. That is precisely what Elder Holland worked to fix when he arrived, and why so much responsibility was placed on mission presidents and missionaries. My first day in Chile my mission pres handed me copies of manual 1 and 2 and told me to study them. My first Sunday, my companion and I ran PEC. It was this way in all branches (my mission had 3 districts that were formerly 5 stakes), and even some of the wards where the leaders were less experienced.

I'm a convert and had been a member around 2 1/2 years when I entered the MTC. Talk about a learning experience. I didn't even know what PEC was.

I'm gratified to hear that you did this. It's what needed to happen. It's very easy for some people to talk about how things are supposed to work, but another thing entirely to actually accomplish something in a badly broken system. 

[Stargazer]

13 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

More layers of complexity to blow my mind!

From the Handbook:

From what you've said, I'm assuming that your mission president authorised missionaries to plan and conduct baptismal services, but was it at least under the directions of district or zone leaders? Where was the ward mission leader, at least? And if 'it was rare to have anyone from the ward or branch' attend, how did anyone even know who had been baptised?

How exactly did you manage to skirt this whole situation considering that at least one member of the bishopric is required to participate in a confirmation and the bishop oversees the ordinance?

For what it may be worth, we followed these instructions exactly in my mission. The ward mission leader planned the service in council with us missionaries. The bishop always presided (and usually the entire bishopric would be in attendance). Our goal was to approach the same level of attendance as a sacrament meeting, and most of the time we did.

I now serve as the mission leader in my ward, and we still follow these instructions. I plan and conduct the baptismal services. The bishop is always there to preside, though now and then the stake president attends. Converts are confirmed under the direction of the bishop. We usually have at least 50 ward members at a baptism, and often over 100.

You may be suffering from a degree of presentism.

In my mission, which predated John's by some years, confirmations of converts was always conducted "at the water's edge".  The rule that they had to wait until Sunday to be confirmed was not introduced until just a few years ago.  While we did not have a rule that said that branch leaders were supposed to attend baptisms, they always did.  Our mission president wanted CONVERTS not NUMBERS, so things were done right.  Again, the current rules were not necessarily in force twenty or forty years ago, and you don't need to act as if the rules were the same back then as they are now.  Because they weren't, by and large.

[Kenngo1969]

6 hours ago, chileanseabass said:

We had over 400 people on the rolls ...

I just wanted to say "Thank you very much" for using the correct homophone.   That is all!

P.S.: Oh, wait: that's not quite all; I just looked up a picture of a Chilean sea bass: man, those things are ug-ly!  I hear they're good eatin', though!  

Edited June 16, 2016 by Kenngo1969

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

You may be suffering from a degree of presentism.

I served my mission a bit more than 20 years ago, and the only change that I was aware of was the confirmation of converts in sacrament meetings, which is why I didn't bring that point up. So I went back to the 1989 CHI to find the guidelines therein. They are similar but a bit different:

Quote

A member of the stake presidency, a high councilor, the stake mission president, a member of the ward bishopric, or a ward mission leader should conduct the service. In addition, missionaries may conduct baptismal services without the attendance or permission of other Church officers. However, missionaries should invite the bishop or branch president to attend and welcome the convert into the Church.

...

After a person is baptized, the bishop is to see that --

1. The person is confirmed either at the baptismal service or during fast and testimony meeting. The bishop or one of his counselors should assist with the confirmation. However, when missionaries conduct the baptismal service, they should assist with the confirmation.
2. Required records are prepared.
3. The person is introduced to the ward membership at the next sacrament meeting.

Clearly the goal expressed here is for a local priesthood leader to conduct the baptismal service and oversee the confirmation (the word used in both cases is should) , though space is allowed for the missionaries to proceed in their absence. It appears that it was still the bishop's responsibility to oversee the recording of the the confirmation regardless. Interesting. One would hope that the mission/missionaries wouldn't make the exception the rule, but one can certainly see how it could happen.

Other pertinent bits that I could find in my quick search:

Quote

Investigators should have met the bishop, although he does not interview them for baptism.

[From the front material:] Each mission president determines whether any modification to the instructions is necessary in his mission after consulting with, and as directed by, his Area Presidency.

 

[Stargazer]

17 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I served my mission a bit more than 20 years ago, and the only change that I was aware of was the confirmation of converts in sacrament meetings, which is why I didn't bring that point up. So I went back to the 1989 CHI to find the guidelines therein. They are similar but a bit different:

Clearly the goal expressed here is for a local priesthood leader to conduct the baptismal service and oversee the confirmation (the word used in both cases is should) , though space is allowed for the missionaries to proceed in their absence. It appears that it was still the bishop's responsibility to oversee the recording of the the confirmation regardless. Interesting. One would hope that the mission/missionaries wouldn't make the exception the rule, but one can certainly see how it could happen.

Other pertinent bits that I could find in my quick search:

 

I served my mission a bit more than 40 years ago, and the rules for baptising converts didn't seem to be very well known, if there were any.  It seems like local leaders were definitely involved, but rules pertaining to this were not well promulgated, at least in my mission.  But we weren't doing anything like this thing that these missionaries described in the OP were doing.

I lived in the England Southwest Mission back in the late 60's, and our branch still had quite a number of baseball/basketball baptisms still on the books, members who were apparently unaware they had joined a church.

[jkwilliams]

8 hours ago, Stargazer said:

I served my mission a bit more than 40 years ago, and the rules for baptising converts didn't seem to be very well known, if there were any.  It seems like local leaders were definitely involved, but rules pertaining to this were not well promulgated, at least in my mission.  But we weren't doing anything like this thing that these missionaries described in the OP were doing.

I lived in the England Southwest Mission back in the late 60's, and our branch still had quite a number of baseball/basketball baptisms still on the books, members who were apparently unaware they had joined a church.

It's interesting that we've seen examples from Latin America, Britain, the US, Canada, and Asia, so these practices aren't particularly rare. Pointing out that this episode in Mexico suggests a familiar pattern is not an attack on the church but an expression of hope that these things have become rarer. Conversations I've had with those who have recently returned tell me that this stuff still goes on, but perhaps this episode will lead to improved training in that mission in Mexico, and maybe the church will reiterate to mission presidents that these things are unacceptable.

[gopher]

I hope any member or non-member will speak up if they are aware of a child scheduled for baptism without a parent's permission.  Calling the police may be extreme.  But the rules for missionaries are clearly stated in PMG, which is available for anyone to read.  I realize in parts of the world where the church isn't well established, it's easier for missionaries to get away with breaking rules, especially when there isn't proper training of local leaders.

[gopher]

On ‎6‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 8:35 AM, Hamba Tuhan said:

I now serve as the mission leader in my ward, and we still follow these instructions. I plan and conduct the baptismal services. The bishop is always there to preside, though now and then the stake president attends. Converts are confirmed under the direction of the bishop. We usually have at least 50 ward members at a baptism, and often over 100.

Do your missionaries use iPads yet?  I don't know how widespread they are in use outside the states.  They've only had them for about a year in our ward.  They no longer use a paper area book, but use an app on the iPad to record everything.  The information is loaded into the online Progress Report which is available for Bishops, WML, and ward councils to view.  Missionaries no longer have to fill out the paper Progress Report for ward council meetings.

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 minute ago, gopher said:

Do your missionaries use iPads yet?

Not yet. I'm looking forward to the day when we finally have these apps! From what I understand, I can just go online and set up appointments for them?

[Rain]

4 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Not yet. I'm looking forward to the day when we finally have these apps! From what I understand, I can just go online and set up appointments for them?

That's not something I have seen,  but I hope not.  I can see some real problems with that.  The other parts of the ipad thing we really like. 

Edited June 16, 2016 by Rain

[consiglieri]

16 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I never made any of those claims.

But you've beaten that straw man to a pulp. Congratulations.

Your acknowledgement that this practice is more widespread than just this one incident is appreciated.

 

[jkwilliams]

42 minutes ago, gopher said:

I hope any member or non-member will speak up if they are aware of a child scheduled for baptism without a parent's permission.  Calling the police may be extreme.  But the rules for missionaries are clearly stated in PMG, which is available for anyone to read.  I realize in parts of the world where the church isn't well established, it's easier for missionaries to get away with breaking rules, especially when there isn't proper training of local leaders.

It seems the police were called because the kids got scared when they were asked to change clothes. Obviously, a big misunderstanding, but you're right that such misunderstandings are far less likely to occur where proper procedures are followed. IMO, doing what they've done in Chile, Brazil, and the Philippines in closing ghost wards and stakes is what will prevent such things from happening. If you have one strong, fully-staffed and trained ward, you are much more likely to see "normal" procedures followed than if you have, say, 4 or 5 skeletal wards.

In my last area--the one where the branch president and district president were less-active--we had some visitors from Salt Lake to announce that a building would be constructed in Guayaramerin in the far north. They told us there were plans to build 52 chapels in the next 18 months to 2 years in Bolivia. I mentioned the branch in Tarija where we only had 3 active members. There were 4 branches in Tarija, all of them struggling with attendance around 10-20 members each week, with an average of maybe 3-5 Melchizedek Priesthood holders per branch (ours had only one). Two of the branches met in the district center (one-half of the modular meetinghouses they were building then). The men from Salt Lake told us that there would be 3 buildings constructed in Tarija so that each branch would have its own building. I thought this was absolutely nuts, but they said there were over 1,000 members in Tarija, enough to justify the 4 total buildings. It seemed obvious to me that, if they had only one branch, they would have at least had 40-60 members at church on Sundays, but that was unlikely, especially now that the buildings were going to go up.

Reading the statistics over on cumorah.com. it doesn't look like Bolivia has undergone the kind of consolidation that happened in Chile, Brazil, and the Philippines. There are currently an average of 782 members per unit in Bolivia, which is not quite Chile levels, but almost. IMO, if you can get rid of the ghost units and build strong local wards and branches, you can train people and avoid the kiddie baps and cemetery baps and so on.

 

Edited June 16, 2016 by jkwilliams

[gopher]

1 hour ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Not yet. I'm looking forward to the day when we finally have these apps! From what I understand, I can just go online and set up appointments for them?

No, that option isn't available yet.  I've heard that WMLs will eventually have access to the full area book, but I'm not sure if it will be through a similar app or through the lds.org website.  The online Progress Report is available in the "Clerk and Leadership Resources" under "Other". 

The iPads here are wifi-only and the missionaries can only sync while at the church, so it might be difficult to set up appointments for the missionaries.

 

Edited June 16, 2016 by gopher

[Scott Lloyd]

At this juncture, I believe it would be useful to post the chapter from Preach My Gospel titled "How Do I Prepare People for Baptism and Confirmation?"

It would help us understand the training that all missionaries undergo and what is expected of them as it pertains to preparing people for and arranging baptisms.

As a prelude to this, I will say that I have covered enough annual seminars for new mission presidents to know how firmly and continuously this guide to missionary work, Preach My Gospel, is taught and emphasized. I have seen Elder Holland deliver a passionate and fervent sermon at an MTC devotional titled "Missionary Work in the Age of Preach My Gospel." I have seen Church leaders admonish departing mission presidents that there is zero tolerance for anyone saying anything along the lines of "Forget what you learned in the MTC; we do things differently in this mission."

So here is the content in the chapter:

12: How Do I Prepare People for Baptism and Confirmation?

Preach My Gospel: A Guide to Missionary Service, (2004), 203–12

Consider This

• What do I need to do to help prepare people for baptism and confirmation?

• How do I conduct an effective baptismal interview?

• How is a spiritual baptismal service planned and conducted?

• How do I work closely with the bishop to ensure that converts are confirmed?

• Why is it important to complete baptismal and confirmation records?

Prepare People for Baptism and Confirmation

The purpose of your teaching is to help others develop faith in Jesus Christ and repent of their sins. As Mormon taught, “the first fruits of repentance is baptism” (Moroni 8:25). The baptismal interview is the way established by the Church to ensure that each candidate meets the Lord’s standards for baptism and is prepared to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Through this interview, baptismal candidates fulfill the scriptural requirement that they witness before an authorized representative of the Church that they have “truly repented of all their sins” (D&C 20:37). The commitments that investigators make prepare them to make and keep the covenant of baptism. People who have kept the commitments that you invited them to make will be well prepared for the interview and for membership and activity in the Church.

As you teach investigators and prepare them for baptism and confirmation, make sure that they meet the qualifications for baptism.

Qualifications for Baptism

Doctrine and Covenants 20:37:

• Humble themselves before God.

• Desire to be baptized.

• Come forth with broken hearts and contrite spirits.

• Repent of all their sins.

• Be willing to take upon them the name of Christ.

• Have a determination to serve Christ to the end.

• Manifest by their works that they have received the Spirit of Christ unto a remission of their sins.

First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve:

• Make sufficient changes in their lives to qualify as commanded in Doctrine and Covenants 20:37.

• Develop faith in Christ.

• Repent of transgressions.

• Live the principles of moral worthiness.

• Live the Word of Wisdom.

• Commit to pay tithing.

• Receive all the missionary lessons [lessons 1–4 on the Teaching Record and associated commitments].

• Meet the bishop or branch president.

• Attend several sacrament meetings.

  (“Statement on Missionary Work,” First Presidency letter, 11 Dec. 2002)

When an investigator has set a firm baptismal date, schedule when you will complete all the events that lead to baptism and confirmation as listed in your daily planner. Carefully review the Teaching Record to ensure that you have taught the basic doctrines and that the candidates are prepared to address each question in the baptismal interview. Review this schedule with the person in your next meeting. If possible, the person should attend a baptismal service prior to his or her own baptism.

If you feel that the person you are teaching needs additional preparation, do not schedule an interview until the investigator meets the standards. If the candidate is a minor, ensure that the parents or guardians have given permission, preferably in writing, for him or her to be baptized.

As you help people prepare for their baptismal interview, talk to them about the purpose of the interview. Teach them and bear testimony about the sacredness of baptism and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Explain that you want to make sure they understand the principles you have taught and the covenant they will make. Also explain that the interview is an opportunity for them to witness before the Lord’s representative that they are ready for these sacred ordinances. As they keep the covenant made at baptism and confirmation, they will receive a remission of sins. Share the questions the interviewer will ask about their belief in important doctrines, their repentance of past sins, and their willingness to covenant to obey Jesus Christ throughout their lives. Emphasize that baptism by water is incomplete without confirmation and the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Activity: Personal or Companion Study

• Read each of the following passages, and make a summary list of the scriptural qualifications for baptism and confirmation.

  • 2 Nephi 9:23; 31:4–13

  • Mosiah 18:8–10

  • Alma 7:14–15

  • 3 Nephi 27:13–21

  • Moroni 6:1–4

  • Moroni 8:25–26

  • D&C 20:37

  • D&C 22

  • Acts 2:37–39

• In baptismal interviews, candidates are asked whether they are willing to take upon themselves the name of Christ. What can you do to help them understand this question? As you ponder this question, study the following scriptures:

  • Mosiah 4–5

  • Mosiah 18:1–11

  • Mosiah 26:18, 21–27

  • 3 Nephi 27:1–10

  • You may also want to look for other passages that help you understand this principle.

How to Conduct the Interview

The person conducting the interview should use the baptismal interview questions with the guidance of the Spirit to determine whether the baptismal candidate meets the qualifications described in Doctrine and Covenants 20:37. He should also adapt the questions to the age and maturity of the candidate.

If a candidate does not qualify according to the baptismal interview questions, the baptism and confirmation should be postponed. The investigator should receive additional teaching by the full-time missionaries and fellowshipping from ward members.

The district leader or zone leader who conducts the interview should:

• Hold the interview in a comfortable, private place, conducive to feeling the Spirit of the Lord. The interviewer’s companion should be nearby.

• Open with prayer.

• Help the candidate feel comfortable.

• Make the interview a spiritually uplifting experience.

• Make sure that the candidate understands the purpose of the interview.

• Ask the baptismal interview questions. Use follow-up questions to get a feeling for the strength of the person’s testimony and the sincerity of the person’s repentance.

• Answer the candidate’s questions.

• Invite the person to bear testimony and express his or her feelings.

• If the person has challenges with testimony or worthiness, explain that it would be best to postpone the baptism until he or she is better prepared.

Baptismal Interview Questions

1. 1.

   Do you believe that God is our Eternal Father? Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Savior and Redeemer of the world?

2. 2.

   Do you believe the Church and gospel of Jesus Christ have been restored through the Prophet Joseph Smith? Do you believe that [current Church President] is a prophet of God? What does this mean to you?

3. 3.

   What does it mean to you to repent? Do you feel that you have repented of your past transgressions?

4. 4.

   Have you ever committed a serious crime? If so, are you now on probation or parole? Have you ever participated in an abortion? a homosexual relationship?

5. 5.

   You have been taught that membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints includes living gospel standards. What do you understand of the following standards? Are you willing to obey them?

   1. a.

      The law of chastity, which prohibits any sexual relationship outside the bonds of a legal marriage between a man and a woman.

   2. b.

      The law of tithing.

   3. c.

      The Word of Wisdom.

   4. d.

      The Sabbath day, including partaking of the sacrament weekly and rendering service to fellow members.

6. 6.

   When you are baptized, you covenant with God that you are willing to take upon yourself the name of Christ and keep His commandments throughout your life. Are you ready to make this covenant and strive to be faithful to it?

At the conclusion of a successful interview, congratulate the candidate. Rejoin the other missionaries, and explain what will happen at the baptismal service.

Explain that the confirmation will take place under the direction of the bishop in a sacrament meeting of the ward in which they reside.

When it is necessary to postpone a baptism, the district leader or zone leader and other missionaries should handle the situation sensitively and privately. Assure the candidate that he or she can succeed, and explain that some transgressions require more time for thorough repentance. Explain that the sacred nature of the ordinance requires high standards of worthiness. Assure the candidate that you and others will do all you can to support him or her. Then faithfully follow through to keep your promise.

Baptism and Confirmation: Questions and Answers

Who conducts the interview for baptism?

Normally the district leader interviews baptismal candidates taught by missionaries in his district, including candidates taught by his zone leaders. The zone leader interviews candidates taught by the district leader. The mission president or someone he assigns must interview people involved in serious sins. District or zone leaders do not interview baptismal candidates outside their own district or zone unless the mission president assigns them to do so.

What is the definition of a convert baptism?

Convert baptisms are baptisms of:

• Persons ages nine and older who have never before been baptized and confirmed as members of the Church.

• Children age eight whose parents are both nonmembers or whose parents are being baptized and confirmed at the same time as the child.

Do I need permission to baptize a minor child?

Before you can teach and baptize an investigator who is under legal age, you must obtain permission of the parent(s) or legal guardian(s), preferably in writing. In addition, you should have good reason to believe that the child understands the baptismal covenant and will make every effort to keep it through obedience to the gospel, including faithfully attending Church meetings.

Do I need permission of the spouse in order to baptize a husband or wife?

Yes. Do not baptize a married person without the consent of his or her spouse.

If the father in a family is not ready for baptism, should I baptize the family or wait until the father is ready?

If the father of a family is not ready for baptism and confirmation but other family members are, you may tell the father you prefer not to baptize the family without him because the Church respects the head of the home and because family members will progress in the gospel best as a family unit. If the father continues to decline, you may baptize and confirm other family members with his consent.

Is it a good idea to ordain a father to the Aaronic Priesthood immediately after baptism so that he can baptize other family members?

No. The father must be confirmed in a sacrament meeting and, after an interview with the bishop, be sustained to receive the Aaronic Priesthood. Baptisms of family members should not be delayed so that the father can perform the baptisms himself.

May I teach and baptize a person who has been excommunicated?

Baptisms of excommunicated persons are not convert baptisms, and missionaries do not interview such persons for baptism. You may work with such persons only under the close supervision of the mission president and bishop.

What if a person has a scheduled baptismal date but is not keeping all of the commitments?

If you feel that someone you are teaching needs additional preparation, do not schedule a baptismal interview until the investigator is keeping the commitments and meets the standards.

What do I do when people want to be baptized but are living together without being married?

Baptismal candidates who have been living with a person of the opposite gender out of wedlock must either marry or stop living together before they can be baptized.

Question 4 in the baptismal interview asks if a person has been involved in a serious sin, such as an abortion, a homosexual relationship, or a serious crime. What should I do if someone confesses such a sin?

1. 1.

   Instructions for teaching missionaries. Sometimes investigators may volunteer information about such sins as you teach about the commandments and invite them to make commitments. However, if they do not say anything but you think they may have a problem, prepare them for the baptismal interview by asking them if they have been involved in any of these sins. If you become aware of a serious sin, do not ask about the details of the sin. Do not schedule a baptismal date or make any promises about whether they will be cleared for baptism and confirmation. Express your love and review the principle of repentance. Kindly explain that these sins are serious and that a person with more maturity and experience (your mission president or someone he assigns) will talk with them and help them with these matters. Then send a baptismal interview request directly to the mission president.

2. 2.

   Instructions for the person conducting the interview for baptism. If the missionaries have properly taught the candidate before the baptismal interview, these issues, if they exist, should have been directed to the mission president. If they do arise, express your love and review the commandments and the principle of repentance. Kindly explain that these sins are serious and that a person with more maturity and experience (your mission president or someone he assigns) will talk with them and help them with these matters. Then forward a baptismal interview request directly to the mission president.

Activity: Personal Study

Think about how you might feel if you were being interviewed. Consider the following questions:

• What aspects of the interview might be strange to you? What could the interviewer do or say to put you at ease?

• How would you want the interviewer to interact with you?

• How would you want the interviewer to respond if you expressed doubts or misunderstandings or if you confessed serious sins?

Write your answers to these questions in your study journal.

Complete the Baptism Record

The missionary who conducts the interview should fill out a current Baptism Record according to instructions on the form. He should explain that a membership record is created from the Baptism Record and will contain important information about the new members and the ordinances they have received. Whenever members move, the membership record is forwarded to the new unit so that their new bishop can provide fellowship and assistance. The missionary should ask the candidate to verify the information on the form during the interview. The missionary who conducts the interview should bring the Baptism Record to the baptismal service and give it to the person who is presiding.

The bishop ensures that a Confirmation Record/Baptism and Confirmation Certificate form is filled out for each candidate according to instructions on the form.

Activity: Personal or Companion Study

Study Mosiah 6:1–3 and Moroni 6:1–4. How do these passages relate to your responsibility for keeping accurate records of baptisms and confirmations?

The Baptismal Service

The Spirit is manifest strongly as the sacred ordinances of baptism and confirmation are performed. The baptismal service and subsequent confirmation should be spiritual highlights for new converts. You and the ward mission leader should do everything you can to ensure that the baptismal service is organized, inspiring, and memorable. These services should strengthen the new converts in their commitment to remain active.

Invite the bishopric, quorum and auxiliary leaders, and home teachers and visiting teachers (if assigned) to attend the baptismal service. The friends and relatives of the converts and all of your current investigators should be invited to attend the baptismal service and the sacrament meeting where the confirmation takes place. These experiences will help them feel the Spirit and prepare them to accept an invitation to learn more about the gospel. Work with the baptismal candidate and ward mission leader to invite the candidate’s friends and relatives to attend. Then follow through after the service to discuss their experience and invite them to learn why their friend chose to be baptized.

The missionaries who taught the baptismal candidate coordinate with the ward mission leader to organize the service. Explain to the baptismal candidate what is planned and why. Discuss proper dress, including how the candidate will be given white clothing to wear for the baptism. Agree on the place and time for the baptism. A member of the bishopric or the ward mission leader normally conducts the service. Following are essential items to plan and organize.

A baptismal service may include:

1. 1.

   Prelude music.

2. 2.

   A brief welcome by the priesthood leader conducting the service (a member of the bishopric should preside).

3. 3.

   An opening hymn and prayer.

4. 4.

   One or two short talks on gospel subjects, such as baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost.

5. 5.

   A musical selection.

6. 6.

   Performance of the baptism.

7. 7.

   A time of reverence while the people who participate in the baptism change into dry clothes. This could include listening to interlude music, singing well-known hymns and Primary songs, showing a Church audiovisual product, or bearing testimony.

8. 8.

   An opportunity for new converts to bear their testimonies, if desired.

9. 9.

   A closing hymn and prayer.

10. 10.

    Postlude music.

Confirmation

A person receives the ordinance of confirmation after he or she has been baptized (see D&C 20:41). A new convert is considered a member of the Church after the ordinances of baptism and confirmation are performed (see John 3:5; D&C 33:11). New converts are confirmed in a sacrament meeting of the ward where they reside, not at the baptismal service. The bishop is responsible for seeing that confirmation occurs as soon as reasonable after baptism. The bishop or one of his counselors participates in the confirmation. The bishop may invite missionary elders who helped teach the convert to participate in the confirmation. Work closely with the bishop and the ward mission leader to make sure this essential ordinance is performed.

After the Baptism and Confirmation

Under the direction of the bishop, missionaries may continue to fellowship new members. Continue to teach them and review what they have been taught. Encourage and support them, read the Book of Mormon with them, and help them share the gospel with family members and friends. As appropriate, continue throughout your life to communicate with those whom you have taught and to encourage and support them.

After the confirmation, continue using the Teaching Record to record your progress in teaching lessons 1–4 again and in teaching lesson 5. Work closely with the ward mission leader and ward leadership to help the new convert stay active and receive all the blessings of the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

Remember This

• Properly prepare baptismal candidates for the interview for baptism and confirmation.

• Make sure candidates meet the requirements for baptism and confirmation.

• Help ensure that baptismal services are spiritually uplifting.

• Use baptismal services and confirmations as finding opportunities.

• Accurately complete baptismal and confirmation forms.

Ideas for Study and Application

Personal Study

• Make a list of the challenges that a baptismal candidate might encounter. Why is it important that candidates feel the love and friendship of Church members?

• Study Moroni 6 and Doctrine and Covenants 20:68–69. What do you learn from these verses about preparing people for baptism and confirmation? Write what you learn, and share your thoughts with your companion during companion study.

Companion Study

• Elder Henry B. Eyring explained why high standards are important. Discuss this counsel with your companion and evaluate how you feel about boldly helping people meet these standards. “The Lord sets His standards so that He can bless us. Think about those blessings: He promises those who meet the standards the help of the Holy Ghost. He promises personal peace. He promises the chance to receive holy ordinances in His house. And He promises those who endure in living His standards that they will have eternal life. … Because we love the people we serve, all of us want to do better in lifting our Heavenly Father’s children to the faithfulness and purity they need to have all the blessings of the Lord. … You begin by holding up the Lord’s standards clearly and without apology. And the more the world drifts from them and mocks them, the bolder we must be in doing that” (“Standards of Worthiness,” First Worldwide Leadership Training Meeting, Jan. 2003, 10–11).

• Share with your companion what you have learned from this chapter about preparing people for baptism and confirmation.

• Review the last baptismal service you attended. Compare it with the guidelines in the section titled “The Baptismal Service.” What went well? What could have been improved? Discuss how you will make sure that the services you plan will be spiritual and uplifting.

• Practice how you would prepare a specific investigator for the baptismal interview.

• Review the baptismal interview questions. Consider how you would handle different situations, such as the following:

  • The candidate didn’t tell you that he is on probation for a crime previously committed.

  • The person has not received a strong answer to prayer that Joseph Smith was a prophet.

  • The candidate smoked a cigarette two days ago.

  • The candidate isn’t sure whether she has received an answer to her prayers.

  • The family felt pressure from friends and aren’t sure whether they are ready for baptism.

• Review the Baptism Record and Confirmation Record form and the Baptism and Confirmation Certificate form. How can you ensure that the information you provide is correct and complete?

District Meetings and Zone Conferences

• Review the importance of the baptismal interview. Discuss how missionaries should prepare investigators for the interview.

• Discuss how to use baptismal services and confirmations as finding opportunities.

Mission President

• Work with local priesthood leaders to ensure effective use of the Progress Record.

• Occasionally conduct a first interview for baptism.

• Teach district leaders and zone leaders how to conduct baptismal interviews.

• Instruct the members of the mission presidency and priesthood leaders how to conduct baptismal interviews for baptismal candidates who have committed serious sins.

[Hamba Tuhan]

On 16/06/2016 at 5:02 AM, Scott Lloyd said:

I shudder to think of a new convert being exposed to that sort of environment.

I feel confident that the Lord did too.

I was told some months after I'd been transferred that one of the apostles had shown up one weekend and informed the members that he was prepared to excommunicated the entire ward if necessary. I don't know what happened after that, but I fear that very few of those who were operating a parallel Church of Left-wing Political Activism from within the safety of that ward are still with us at this point.

[Hamba Tuhan]

16 hours ago, Rain said:

That's not something I have seen,  but I hope not.  I can see some real problems with that.  The other parts of the ipad thing we really like. 

 

14 hours ago, gopher said:

No, that option isn't available yet.  I've heard that WMLs will eventually have access to the full area book, but I'm not sure if it will be through a similar app or through the lds.org website.  The online Progress Report is available in the "Clerk and Leadership Resources" under "Other". 

The iPads here are wifi-only and the missionaries can only sync while at the church, so it might be difficult to set up appointments for the missionaries.

I had lunch with our six missionaries today after their ZTM, and I asked one of the Sisters, who waited for her visa in an American mission, what they had on their iPads. She confirmed that their planners weren't available online yet, but all six talked about how good it would be if I could just set up appointments for them instead of having to ring 'round to three companionships (and then often wait for calls back) in order to find out who is available to take an appointment. Fingers crossed. In the meantime, I just wish our missionaries had iPads...

Edited June 17, 2016 by Hamba Tuhan

[Scott Lloyd]

48 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I feel confident that the Lord did too.

I was told some months after I'd been transferred that one of the apostles had shown up one weekend and informed the members that he was prepared to excommunicated the entire ward if necessary. I don't know what happened after that, but I fear that very few of those who were operating a parallel Church of Left-wing Political Activism from within the safety of that ward are still with us at this point.

And yet I fear that ward would have been something of a prototype for what many progmos would have the Church of Jesus Christ become, hence the need for boundary maintenance up to and including disciplinary councils when necessary. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

On 16/06/2016 at 1:17 AM, consiglieri said:

When it didn't happen, in spite of my best efforts, the conclusion was obvious.  I did something wrong.  I was to blame.  I didn't work hard enough.  I wasn't good enough.

No wonder I suffered from bouts of depression on my mission.

 

On 16/06/2016 at 1:25 AM, jkwilliams said:

I can relate ... That's when you start thinking you're doing something wrong: you don't have the spirit, you're not humble enough, you're not working hard enough. I definitely felt like I was never good enough.

 

On 16/06/2016 at 1:28 AM, James Tunney said:

I hated the false claim that missionaries were to blame for a lack of "success" and the pressure to get numbers.  I hated the mission experience for that reason ...  Looking back, that was a major factor in my wanting to leave the church.   

I don't want to be too reductionist, but a pattern of sorts seems to emerge from these posts and others like them. I think my father was certainly right when he insisted that getting things wrong in the Church hurts everyone involved.

In contrast, my two years as a full-time missionary have served as the rock-solid foundation for literally every single good thing that has occurred in my life post-mission. The experience was of a nature that it shifted innumerable things in my life from the 'faith' column to the 'knowledge' column. I came to know Christ and understand the application of His atonement in intimate and practical ways. I saw the priesthood work in much of its glory. I experienced -- and was therefore shaped by -- genuinely Christlike leadership. Revelation of all kinds flowed into my life and into the lives our our investigators. I felt the love of God in such abundance that I didn't always know what to do with it and so it just spilled out all around me. (I remember telling my companion one morning that, if he were to poke me with a needle, I was certain that a narrow beam of intense light would shoot out!) I came to sing the song of redeeming love, not just on occasion but literally every single day. What a miracle the whole experience was to me!

I was at a training meeting with Elder Bednar and our area president last year, and the latter asked the assembled priesthood leaders why we were there, so early on a Saturday morning and, for many of us, so far from home. I didn't put my hand up, but the answer in my head was clear: Because I discovered as a full-time missionary that I love the things of God more than I love anything else, and that love has only grown during the intervening years.

I am motivated in my current calling by a number of factors -- including my simple love for the things of God -- but one of my greatest motivators is that I cannot abide the good Elders and Sisters who serve in my ward having an experience in any way less than the one that I had as a full-time missionary.