What Captain America Would Say to Mormons

[USU78]

In the new Captain America movie there is a statement put into the mouth of a character at a funeral.  In the original, that statement is spoken by Cap himself, though in a fuller version.  Here is that statement:

Quote

Doesn't matter what the press says. Doesn't matter what the politicians or the mobs say. Doesn't matter if the whole country decides that something wrong is something right. This nation was founded on one principle above all else: the requirement that we stand up for what we believe, no matter the odds or the consequences. When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world — "No, you move."

A few weeks back there was a thread in which ostensibly active Mormons were urging others to "go along" with demands to participate in obscene and abominable rituals celebrating commitment to sin.  "Go ahead and bake that cake," it was urged, along with, "Make that T-shirt to order."

Do we plant ourselves by the River of Truth, despite the odds and despite the consequences  ...  or should Mormons let the filthy waters wash us downstream?

[HappyJackWagon]

7 minutes ago, USU78 said:

In the new Captain America movie there is a statement put into the mouth of a character at a funeral.  In the original, that statement is spoken by Cap himself, though in a fuller version.  Here is that statement:

A few weeks back there was a thread in which ostensibly active Mormons were urging others to "go along" with demands to participate in obscene and abominable rituals celebrating commitment to sin.  "Go ahead and bake that cake," it was urged, along with, "Make that T-shirt to order."

Do we plant ourselves by the River of Truth, despite the odds and despite the consequences  ...  or should Mormons let the filthy waters wash us downstream?

Inflammatory much?

For a member of a church centered on family, I find it funny that you use "obscene" "abominable" and "filthy waters" to describe a marriage commitment between two consenting adults.

Also, bravo on your click bait title.

[Freedom]

If you are going to start a new thread, you need to assume that nobody has read the one you are referring to. Can you provide some more context so we know what ritual you are referring to and in what way active members are urging others to join?

[mapman]

Hello, fellow Marvel fan here.

One of the great things about that movie is that it makes you feel like both Captain America and Iron Man have valid points while both being wrong. It's easy to see where both are coming from. Captain America's courage to do what he feels like is right is certainly admirable. However, it also seems like his unwillingness to make compromises or to question if everything he is fighting for is actually right ends up making things worse. Iron Man is similarly convinced that his position is the right one. The point is, it's complicated and the correct course of action isn't always obvious.

Black Panther was the real winner, though.

Edited May 23, 2016 by mapman

[jkwilliams]

1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Inflammatory much?

For a member of a church centered on family, I find it funny that you use "obscene" "abominable" and "filthy waters" to describe a marriage commitment between two consenting adults.

Also, bravo on your click bait title.

I don't know. I kind of like it when people say what they're really thinking.

[Glenn101]

3 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Inflammatory much?

For a member of a church centered on family, I find it funny that you use "obscene" "abominable" and "filthy waters" to describe a marriage commitment between two consenting adults.

Also, bravo on your click bait title.

Being consenting and adult the only requirement for making something that has been declared a sin not a sin?

 

[JLHPROF]

3 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

For a member of a church centered on family, I find it funny that you use "obscene" "abominable" and "filthy waters" to describe a marriage commitment between two consenting adults.

If the shoe fits.

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, USU78 said:

In the new Captain America movie there is a statement put into the mouth of a character at a funeral.  In the original, that statement is spoken by Cap himself, though in a fuller version.  Here is that statement:

A few weeks back there was a thread in which ostensibly active Mormons were urging others to "go along" with demands to participate in obscene and abominable rituals celebrating commitment to sin.  "Go ahead and bake that cake," it was urged, along with, "Make that T-shirt to order."

Do we plant ourselves by the River of Truth, despite the odds and despite the consequences  ...  or should Mormons let the filthy waters wash us downstream?

Yeah, if a comic book character said it it must be wisdom.

Also, I am more then "ostensibly" active.

[USU78]

52 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Yeah, if a comic book character said it it must be wisdom.

Also, I am more then "ostensibly" active.

I don't recall Nehor urging "going along to get along," but my memory is, admitted, fuzzy after my trip to very moist Houston.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

 

For a member of a church centered on family, I find it funny that you use "obscene" "abominable" and "filthy waters" to describe a marriage commitment between two consenting adults.

 

It has just been made legal by Gov't, not according to scripture. The Church cannot make anything un sinful that God has deemed to be so, least they say, "Amen to the Priesthood". Personal feelings do not make things right or wrong, some things are just right or wrong.  

[Ahab]

4 hours ago, mapman said:

Hello, fellow Marvel fan here.

One of the great things about that movie is that it makes you feel like both Captain America and Iron Man have valid points while both being wrong. It's easy to see where both are coming from. Captain America's courage to do what he feels like is right is certainly admirable. However, it also seems like his unwillingness to make compromises or to question if everything he is fighting for is actually right ends up making things worse. Iron Man is similarly convinced that his position is the right one. The point is, it's complicated and the correct course of action isn't always obvious.

Black Panther was the real winner, though.

Great points for comparison.  Captain America's vs Iron Man's point on who should ultimately be responsible for our own actions.  It surprised me a little that Iron Man changed his tune, the one he had when the U.S. committee wanted him to give the government what they called the Iron Man weapon which he said was him or his prosthetic (sp?).  And here he is taking his orders from even more government officials just because leaders from 116 other countries thought he should either agree or just retire from service

You're wrong in thinking the Cap was wrong,  though, because the Cap was right.  Nobody should ever give up their own role in the choices they make, putting themselves in the position of just following orders.  Each and every decision we make is and should be our own decision to make, with each one of us bearing the final responsibilities of our own actions.  So while we may agree to agree with something we should always retain the right and power to disagree whenever we want to.   Not that we'll always get to choose the consequences of our own actions but at least we'll always get to choose our own actions. 

Even the power of the priesthood should never be maintained by force, but by persuasion and love unfeigned.  Or something like that.

I think  the Cap would tell us Mormons to continue to let the Holy Spirit be our guide in all that we do while we retain the right to choose what we will do.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Ahab
changed a to to or, typo

[BCSpace]

2 hours ago, Glenn101 said:

Being consenting and adult the only requirement for making something that has been declared a sin not a sin?

 

Or even a family?

[BCSpace]

Quote

A few weeks back there was a thread in which ostensibly active Mormons were urging others to "go along" with demands to participate in obscene and abominable rituals celebrating commitment to sin.  "Go ahead and bake that cake," it was urged, along with, "Make that T-shirt to order."

I freely admit to suggesting that in those cases because such requests are sometimes traps used for publicity and political gain.  So it might be a lesser evil to go along.  One caveat, make it perfectly and publicly clear that proceeds of such will be donated to righteous (aka Conservative) causes.

I do disagree with the Captain America quote, it being fundamentally unAmerican to stand up for causes, no matter what, which aren't truth. It's not unAmerican of course, to believe what you will and speak your mind though, even if you're wrong.

[HappyJackWagon]

9 hours ago, BCSpace said:

Or even a family?

I find this attitude appalling. A church that calls a family "counterfeit" or an "abomination" isn't worthy of my loyalty. It represents the worst of religion.

[JLHPROF]

20 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I find this attitude appalling. A church that calls a family "counterfeit" or an "abomination" isn't worthy of my loyalty. It represents the worst of religion.

And yet still may be an accurate description.

[USU78]

3 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

And yet still may be an accurate description.

And may, by its very nature, be abusive, since it may, by its very nature, constitute grooming 

[jkwilliams]

21 minutes ago, USU78 said:

And may, by its very nature, be abusive, since it may, by its very nature, constitute grooming 

Grooming has to do with pedophilia. Are you suggesting that same-sex marriage is a way for pedophiles to obtain victims? If that's true, then heterosexual marriage may, by its very nature, constitute grooming of heterosexual victims of pedophilia. Now I feel bad that I got married and supported this insidious effort to groom kids for pedophiles. Who knew?

Edited May 24, 2016 by jkwilliams

[HappyJackWagon]

5 minutes ago, USU78 said:

And may, by its very nature, be abusive, since it may, by its very nature, constitute grooming 

Can you explain this comment? What constitutes grooming?

Quote

      32 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I find this attitude appalling. A church that calls a family "counterfeit" or an "abomination" isn't worthy of my loyalty. It represents the worst of religion.

JLHPROF- And yet still may be an accurate description.

God sounds very loving.

It's very unfortunate when God is blamed for bigotry and hateful rhetoric.

[rodheadlee]

35 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I find this attitude appalling. A church that calls a family "counterfeit" or an "abomination" isn't worthy of my loyalty. It represents the worst of religion.

So why are you still in the Church?

[jkwilliams]

1 minute ago, rodheadlee said:

So why are you still in the Church?

Do you want people like him to leave?

[HappyJackWagon]

1 minute ago, rodheadlee said:

So why are you still in the Church?

Because I don't believe heartless comments made by members on boards don't reflect the official position of the church. So I feel comfortable dismissing these kinds of beliefs while accepting the ones that I believe are truly representative of Christ.

[ALarson]

10 hours ago, BCSpace said:

Or even a family?

So, you would tell a child of a gay couple that they are not part of a family? 

[rodheadlee]

8 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Do you want people like him to leave?

No, I'm just curious. If I felt the Church wasn't worthy of my loyalty I would never return.

[rodheadlee]

9 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Because I don't believe heartless comments made by members on boards don't reflect the official position of the church. So I feel comfortable dismissing these kinds of beliefs while accepting the ones that I believe are truly representative of Christ.

Um, yeah, well, that's not what you said but ok.

[consiglieri]

What would Captain America say to Mormons?

He would say it's a good thing to be patriotic, but eventually your leaders will let you down.

Then you're on your own.

Then you find out that patriotism should never be to any man or group of men, but to a principle, to an idea.

And that idea is freedom.

And any man or group of men who oppose that idea of freedom are the real enemy.

Even if they turn out to be the leaders you used to be loyal to.

 

Edited May 24, 2016 by consiglieri