In Defense of BYU's Honor Code

[cinepro]

I've never been to BYU, but this article by a non-LDS former assistant professor seems to the most rational view of the current situation with the Honor Code office (as it relates to victims of sexual assault):

 

The code itself, according to Slate's Dahlia Lithwick, is "onerous," places BYU "on a collision course with Title IX," and puts female students at risk by teaching them that "what causes rape" is "women who don't follow a thousand rules about where to be and what to wear."

If this is the case, it's unclear whether the solution I've proposed — a procedure to ensure that the Title IX office handles the investigation, and the honor code office stands down when a sexual assault is alleged — would be a sufficient response. Better, it seems, would be for BYU to become like every secular university in the country, doing nothing to give moral guidance to the students who study and live on campus, and simply encouraging them to reach out to campus law enforcement and the Title IX office if they find themselves the victim of an assault.

But would that really improve quality of life at BYU relative to other colleges?

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Perhaps my perspective is skewed from having taught there for a time, but I'd be willing to bet that there simply are fewer sexual assaults at BYU than at most secular universities. And the reason for that lower number is the honor code, as well as the religious and moral culture in which it is embedded.

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Would I have wanted to go to BYU as an undergraduate? Even leaving aside the ill-fitting religious aspect of the university, the answer is no. But would I worry less about my daughter being sexually assaulted on BYU's campus than I would if she attended a Big Ten university? Without a doubt.

Title IX offices are important. But if we really wanted to cut rates of campus sexual assault, we could do worse than remaking secular universities in the image of BYU: Ban or severely restrict alcohol consumption; firmly regulate Greek life; and impose rules designed to make male students behave a little less like sexual predators and a little more like Mormons.

http://theweek.com/articles/621249/defense-byus-honor-code

[stemelbow]

18 minutes ago, cinepro said:

I've never been to BYU, but this article by a non-LDS former assistant professor seems to the most rational view of the current situation with the Honor Code office (as it relates to victims of sexual assault):

 

 

 

To judge by the

tone of the media commentary, the problem isn't really, or merely, that two bureaucratic offices with different goals are coming into conflict, or perhaps inappropriately colluding, with each other. The problem, liberal critics suggest, is that the school has an honor code office at all.

That hasn't been what I've seen as the issue with all of this.  There were those who have opposed the colluding, after having been turned over for some sort of honor code violation and having been cleared--meaning victims who didn't violate the code and yet were still investigated for honor code violations.  I've seen a pretty good laser focus on hoping the two stop colluding so victims of assault have less reason to not report.  Granted there are probably many who would love to see BYU turn into any other secular university, but that's not typically the victims or those who are in the LDS community most heavily engaged with this issue. 

[Thinking]

If the Honor Code office conducts investigations to find honor code violations, then perhaps Honor Code is the wrong title. Conduct Code would be a better title,

[Scott Lloyd]

27 minutes ago, Thinking said:

If the Honor Code office conducts investigations to find honor code violations, then perhaps Honor Code is the wrong title. Conduct Code would be a better title,

Honor code is traditional academic terminology, stemming largely from military service academies. See here.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Thinking said:

If the Honor Code office conducts investigations to find honor code violations, then perhaps Honor Code is the wrong title. Conduct Code would be a better title,

A code by any other name would be attacked all the same.

[Ahab]

1 hour ago, Thinking said:

If the Honor Code office conducts investigations to find honor code violations, then perhaps Honor Code is the wrong title. Conduct Code would be a better title,

No perhaps about it.  It is the wrong title or name for what it really is.  But traditionally it is the title or name associated with such a thing and we all know how much our church is steeped in... sing it with me now, Tradition! 

 

[Okrahomer]

4 hours ago, cinepro said:

I've never been to BYU, but this article by a non-LDS former assistant professor seems to the most rational view of the current situation with the Honor Code office (as it relates to victims of sexual assault):

 

 

 

I cited the article too, back on 29 April, but alas my post elicited not a single reply.

 

 

[carbon dioxide]

I find a simple solution to this problem.  In the case of sexual assault, for the purposes of fighting that great evil, BYU stands down on punishing the student for any honor code violation as it pertains to remaining a BYU student.  It however reminds the student that even though BYU will not punish the student in terms of remaining in school, they are still accountable to the Lord for their actions they did have control and consent over and they should talk to the bishop about it if necessary. The bishop is kept in the dark about the assault from BYU thus making confession voluntary and sincere.  So if their issue is they were drinking beer, they simply tell the bishop they had some beer one night and need not mention the assault at all.  That way the student does not have to fear about being kicked out of school by reporting the assault while recognizing that the Lord does not excuse behavior they choose to do even if such decisions leads to someone else making a bad choice against them.  

[Scott Lloyd]

6 hours ago, Ahab said:

No perhaps about it.  It is the wrong title or name for what it really is.  But traditionally it is the title or name associated with such a thing and we all know how much our church is steeped in... sing it with me now, Tradition! 

 

Honor code is a perfectly adequate name.

[Scott Lloyd]

14 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

I find a simple solution to this problem.  In the case of sexual assault, for the purposes of fighting that great evil, BYU stands down on punishing the student for any honor code violation as it pertains to remaining a BYU student.  It however reminds the student that even though BYU will not punish the student in terms of remaining in school, they are still accountable to the Lord for their actions they did have control and consent over and they should talk to the bishop about it if necessary. The bishop is kept in the dark about the assault from BYU thus making confession voluntary and sincere.  So if their issue is they were drinking beer, they simply tell the bishop they had some beer one night and need not mention the assault at all.  That way the student does not have to fear about being kicked out of school by reporting the assault while recognizing that the Lord does not excuse behavior they choose to do even if such decisions leads to someone else making a bad choice against them.  

I tend to agree with this.

Moreover, being the victim of a sexual assault is probably a more severe wake-up call than any penalty the honor code office could impose.If the victim had been doing anything inappropriate leading up to the assault, I would hope he/she would get the message and alter his/her behavior accordingly.

[sjdawg]

2 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

I find a simple solution to this problem.  In the case of sexual assault, for the purposes of fighting that great evil, BYU stands down on punishing the student for any honor code violation as it pertains to remaining a BYU student.  It however reminds the student that even though BYU will not punish the student in terms of remaining in school, they are still accountable to the Lord for their actions they did have control and consent over and they should talk to the bishop about it if necessary. The bishop is kept in the dark about the assault from BYU thus making confession voluntary and sincere.  So if their issue is they were drinking beer, they simply tell the bishop they had some beer one night and need not mention the assault at all.  That way the student does not have to fear about being kicked out of school by reporting the assault while recognizing that the Lord does not excuse behavior they choose to do even if such decisions leads to someone else making a bad choice against them.  

I find this to be an extremely reasonable solution (as long as the Bishop doesn't revoke the endorsement needed to attend the school).  As an "outsider" I have no issue with the honor code but did have some concern of the application of it in instances of sexual assault.  

Edited May 17, 2016 by sjdawg

[Rain]

8 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

I find a simple solution to this problem.  In the case of sexual assault, for the purposes of fighting that great evil, BYU stands down on punishing the student for any honor code violation as it pertains to remaining a BYU student.  It however reminds the student that even though BYU will not punish the student in terms of remaining in school, they are still accountable to the Lord for their actions they did have control and consent over and they should talk to the bishop about it if necessary. The bishop is kept in the dark about the assault from BYU thus making confession voluntary and sincere.  So if their issue is they were drinking beer, they simply tell the bishop they had some beer one night and need not mention the assault at all.  That way the student does not have to fear about being kicked out of school by reporting the assault while recognizing that the Lord does not excuse behavior they choose to do even if such decisions leads to someone else making a bad choice against them.  

One problem I see worth this is some people will feel the need to go to their bishop for help with the attack.  Perhaps they need comfort or counseling.  Some will definitely not want to go to him,  but some will.  And if the attacker is in the same ward them that may present problems as well. 

[Ahab]

12 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Honor code is a perfectly adequate name.

Pffftt.  Yeah,  sure, it is technically "adequate".

I would prefer a better name for it, though,  such as BYU simply calling it their 'Code of Conduct' or 'Guide for Acceptable Behavior'.

[Scott Lloyd]

24 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Pffftt.  Yeah,  sure, it is technically "adequate".

I would prefer a better name for it, though,  such as BYU simply calling it their 'Code of Conduct' or 'Guide for Acceptable Behavior'.

It's adequate in every way, not just technically.

Observing standards of behavior that one subscribes to when enrolling at the university and, in the vast majority of cases, accepting the covenants of membership in the Church of Jesus Christ, is a matter of honor.

[Ahab]

4 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

It's adequate in every way, not just technically.

Observing standards of behavior that one subscribes to when enrolling at the university and, in the vast majority of cases, accepting the covenants of membership in the Church of Jesus Christ, is a matter of honor.

I agree, and the idea that it is a matter of honor means, to me, that it is not a matter of whether or not other people think I am observing the code honorably.  All that matters, to me, is whether or not I feel I am observing the code honorably,  regardless of what anyone else may think. 

[James Tunney]

How to combine the honor code with title XIIII is certainly a difficult problem.  Maybe the church should ease up a little bit on the honor code penalties?  Let the young people take a little more responsibility?  BYU might be surprised if it stopped being such a busy body.  Stopping rape certainly needs to take precedence over whatever indiscretion the victim may have done and easing up on the honor code penalties would probably lessen the fear of reporting.

[jkwilliams]

33 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

It's adequate in every way, not just technically.

Observing standards of behavior that one subscribes to when enrolling at the university and, in the vast majority of cases, accepting the covenants of membership in the Church of Jesus Christ, is a matter of honor.

If you're a BYU student, what the Honor Code office thinks certainly matters to you,

I got called into the Honor Code office every September as an undergraduate. Without fail, my bishop in California would forget to send in my ecclesiastical endorsement, causing me no end of headaches.

I don't have a problem with the Honor Code, just the counterproductive involvement of the Honor Code office in rape investigations.

By the way, when I was in school it was called the University Standards Office. When did that change?

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, jkwilliams said:

If you're a BYU student, what the Honor Code office thinks certainly matters to you,

I got called into the Honor Code office every September as an undergraduate. Without fail, my bishop in California would forget to send in my ecclesiastical endorsement, causing me no end of headaches.

I don't have a problem with the Honor Code, just the counterproductive involvement of the Honor Code office in rape investigations.

By the way, when I was in school it was called the University Standards Office. When did that change?

I don't know what it's called, really. I've just gone along with the trend here to use the generic name "honor code office."

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, James Tunney said:

How to combine the honor code with title XIIII is certainly a difficult problem.  Maybe the church should ease up a little bit on the honor code penalties?  Let the young people take a little more responsibility?  BYU might be surprised if it stopped being such a busy body.  Stopping rape certainly needs to take precedence over whatever indiscretion the victim may have done and easing up on the honor code penalties would probably lessen the fear of reporting.

So long as there are untold numbers of young people who would love to enroll at BYU, but can't due to limited enrollment, and would be more than happy to live up to the honor code in spirit and letter in every whit, I do believe it is the responsibility of the university to enforce the code, up to and including expulsion of those who won't abide by it, thus freeing up enrollment slots for those who will.

 

[jkwilliams]

Just now, Scott Lloyd said:

So long as there are untold numbers of young people who would love to enroll at BYU, but can't due to limited enrollment, and would be more than happy to live up to the honor code in spirit and letter in every whit, I do believe it is the responsibility of the university to enforce the code, up to and including expulsion of those who won't abide by it, thus freeing up enrollment slots for those who will.

I don't have a problem with that. The issue for me is that fear of expulsion is causing rapes to go unreported, and it doesn't require much imagination to understand that people who get away with rapes will rape again. Surely, prosecuting rape and preventing future rapes is more important than maintaining the letter of the honor code law. 

[James Tunney]

1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said:

So long as there are untold numbers of young people who would love to enroll at BYU, but can't due to limited enrollment, and would be more than happy to live up to the honor code in spirit and letter in every whit, I do believe it is the responsibility of the university to enforce the code, up to and including expulsion of those who won't abide by it, thus freeing up enrollment slots for those who will.

 

Sure, but under that logic, you could get students to do a lot of silly things in order to go to BYU.  But is it valid to have a draconian honor code just because people are willing to say they will follow it?  It seems that the honor code is definitely causing rape victims to under report valid rape cases.  Shouldn't kids be trusted?  What happens after they leave BYU?  Who watches them at that point?  Isn't it better to teach the kids how to handle freedom while at BYU?  Obviously, one can say that regardless of how closely an institution resembles a totalitarian regime, one can still act as one wants, however, don't the penalties curb freedom?  So, shouldn't the penalties be relaxed a bit to foster rape reporting?

[Scott Lloyd]

8 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

I don't have a problem with that. The issue for me is that fear of expulsion is causing rapes to go unreported, and it doesn't require much imagination to understand that people who get away with rapes will rape again. Surely, prosecuting rape and preventing future rapes is more important than maintaining the letter of the honor code law. 

I don't disagree with you on that. What James Tunney seemed to be arguing for was a general relaxation in the enforcement of the honor code.

 

[jkwilliams]

2 minutes ago, James Tunney said:

Sure, but under that logic, you could get students to do a lot of silly things in order to go to BYU.  But is it valid to have a draconian honor code just because people are willing to say they will follow it?  It seems that the honor code is definitely causing rape victims to under report valid rape cases.  Shouldn't kids be trusted?  What happens after they leave BYU?  Who watches them at that point?  Isn't it better to teach the kids how to handle freedom while at BYU?  Obviously, one can say that regardless of how closely an institution resembles a totalitarian regime, one can still act as one wants, however, don't the penalties curb freedom?  So, shouldn't the penalties be relaxed a bit to foster rape reporting?

I'm sure the university would like to be able to encourage reporting of rapes and enforce the honor code to the letter. Since that's unlikely, they have to decide which is more important: reporting/preventing rapes, or enforcing the honor code. The current policy leans toward the latter, IMO.

[Scott Lloyd]

3 minutes ago, James Tunney said:

Sure, but under that logic, you could get students to do a lot of silly things in order to go to BYU.  But is it valid to have a draconian honor code just because people are willing to say they will follow it?  It seems that the honor code is definitely causing rape victims to under report valid rape cases.  Shouldn't kids be trusted?  What happens after they leave BYU?  Who watches them at that point?  Isn't it better to teach the kids how to handle freedom while at BYU?  Obviously, one can say that regardless of how closely an institution resembles a totalitarian regime, one can still act as one wants, however, don't the penalties curb freedom?  So, shouldn't the penalties be relaxed a bit to foster rape reporting?

That the honor code as presently constituted is "silly" is assuming facts not in evidence.

It's the same story wherever you go: Those who are dialed into the standards and willing to abide by them have nothing to worry about.

In all my years at BYU, I never had any experience or association with the standards office. I didn't even know -- and don't to this day -- where it was located.

 

[jkwilliams]

4 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

That the honor code as presently constituted is "silly" is assuming facts not in evidence.

It's the same story wherever you go: Those who are dialed into the standards and willing to abide by them have nothing to worry about.

In all my years at BYU, I never had any experience or association with the standards office. I didn't even know -- and don't to this day -- where it was located.

It was in the Swicket when I was there. Like I said, the only reason I know is that my bishop forgot to send in my endorsement every year, so I would get an orange envelope in the mail saying I had to report to University Standards and resolve the issue by a certain date or face expulsion. 

The only other issue I ever had was when I went to the testing center around 6 pm one evening and was told I would have to shave, or I wouldn't be allowed in to take my test. I had shaved that morning, but apparently I had enough of a "five o'clock shadow" that I looked like an honor code breaker.