Word of Wisdom and mild drinks

[Jim Stiles]

7 hours ago, BookofMormonLuvr said:

I do accept beer as a mild barley drink- I try to keep it max. in the 5-6% range, when I do have one beer, at night, a few times a year. I've had a 6 pack of Angry Orchard in the fridge for  weeks, still have two left.

Angry Orchard tastes like the self described hard cider a neighbor would make back in the 1970s.

Eating apples did not become a common practice until the middle of the 19th century.  Previously, apples were almost always consumed in liquid form.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

29 minutes ago, Jim Stiles said:

I like Arnold Palmers also.  Can you find diet Arnold Palmers in the midwest?

Are you a member of the Community of Christ?

 

Snapple has a diet half & half.

LOL.... no. I hold my membership in the Restoration Branches- but I am rather unorthodox and independent in my personal theology and interpretation of scripture.

[Okrahomer]

34 minutes ago, Jim Stiles said:

Looking the ABV, mild ale appears to be an excellent beer for children.

One LCMS pastor told me about the practice of dropping a little bit of wine into a class of water for communion of persons who have drinking problems.  That seems OK for me for churches that commune children.

I'm not wanting to pick a fight, but I'm a bit suprised by the idea of including children here.  It seems you've given this some thought, but are you sure it's a good idea to allow children to taste alcohol?  What possible benefit could there be in doing this?  

 

Edited April 18, 2016 by Okrahomer

[Stargazer]

9 hours ago, Rivers said:

D&C 89:17 says that barley can be used for mild drinks. What alcohol content level would make something a mild barley drink?

Here's one that I have used in the past.  It's imported from Germany and so is not cheap, but it's quite good:

[Rain]

17 hours ago, JAHS said:

"hot" refers to hot black coffee and hot black tea. Any other interpretation beyond that is left up to the member.

Just to be clear:  D&C 89 does not specify what "hot" drinks are. Official church teaching in manuals, missionary guides etc. does specify that they are tea and coffee, but does not say anything about the temperature. 

I know you know that, but some may not.

[JAHS]

15 minutes ago, Rain said:

Just to be clear:  D&C 89 does not specify what "hot" drinks are. Official church teaching in manuals, missionary guides etc. does specify that they are tea and coffee, but does not say anything about the temperature. 

I know you know that, but some may not.

True. Joseph Smith himself did clarify what hot drinks meant. On a Sabbath day in July (1833) following the giving of the "Word of Wisdom," when both Joseph and Hyrum Smith were in the stand, the Prophet said to the Saints: "I understand that some of the people are excusing themselves in using tea and coffee, because the Lord only said 'hot drinks' in the revelation of the Word of Wisdom. Tea and coffee are what the Lord meant when he said 'hot drinks.'(Johnson, J. H., A Voice from the Mountains, p. 12)  

[ERMD]

Diet Dr Pepper.  Enjoying one right now.  And there is no "." after "Dr".  

[Rain]

4 hours ago, JAHS said:

True. Joseph Smith himself did clarify what hot drinks meant. On a Sabbath day in July (1833) following the giving of the "Word of Wisdom," when both Joseph and Hyrum Smith were in the stand, the Prophet said to the Saints: "I understand that some of the people are excusing themselves in using tea and coffee, because the Lord only said 'hot drinks' in the revelation of the Word of Wisdom. Tea and coffee are what the Lord meant when he said 'hot drinks.'(Johnson, J. H., A Voice from the Mountains, p. 12)  

I did not know that.  Thanks!

[Jeanne]

3 hours ago, ERMD said:

Diet Dr Pepper.  Enjoying one right now.  And there is no "." after "Dr".  

I am sorry...but nothing beats a Diet Coke!!

[snowflake]

21 hours ago, Rivers said:

So it really comes down to following the specific restrictions outlined by our modern prophets. The letter of the word of wisdom and what is enforced today is clearly not exactly the same. 

When I section 89 and compare it to the "church standard" of the word of wisdom today I just have to shake my head.

Verse 5 and 6, wine is bad except for sacrament, you should make this wine yourselves.

Verse 10 and 11, it seems as though marijuana would be okay here (eaten of course with thanksgiving....ALL wholesome herbs ).

Verse 12 and 13, only eat meat in times of winter, cold or famine.

Verse 17 barley to be used for mild drinks (beer) is ok.

Can someone please tell me why we have strayed so far from the original word of wisdom?  I've been to so many 4th of July LDS cookouts and nobody has an issue with meat. But if I were to crack open a Bud Lite, all heck would break loose!  

 

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, ERMD said:

Diet Dr Pepper.  Enjoying one right now.  And there is no "." after "Dr".  

Neither does Mr Pibb

 

So as a Dr Pepper enthusiast what is the conspiracy? World domination I assume?

[ERMD]

51 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Neither does Mr Pibb

 

So as a Dr Pepper enthusiast what is the conspiracy? World domination I assume?

I cannot tell.  Waco, Tx is the home of Dr Pepper, and as a graduate of Baylor University, I can admit to being of the Dr Pepper Illuminati, but I can reveal no more.

Edited April 18, 2016 by ERMD

[Ahab]

On 4/17/2016 at 1:55 PM, Coreyb said:

A little history of "mild" ale should help give some context to what a nineteenth century person might have meant by the term "mild barley drinks". Personally I don't see the word of wisdom revelation giving a general ban on all alcohol. I suppose you could drink beer responsibly and still qualify for a temple recommend. All they ask is if you observe it. The rest is up to your own conscience. How do you justify eating meat every day though? 😏

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mild_ale

I don't see how so many people can justify meat. I still like the taste of it and have it sometimes but mostly I eat a vegan diet, not usually any dairy products either.

A book and video called Forks Over Knives helped to straighten me out. What I believe following the Word of Wisdom is really all about.

[Ahab]

5 hours ago, ERMD said:

Diet Dr Pepper.  Enjoying one right now.  And there is no "." after "Dr".  

Very bad for you, health wise, but one of my favorites when I feel like I really really really want a carbonated soda.  Diet Cherry Vanilla to be more precise.

 

[Ahab]

2 hours ago, Jeanne said:

I am sorry...but nothing beats a Diet Coke!!

Except a beer.  Becks is one of my favorites and they bottle some up before they get fermented.  New wine is pretty good too, which I think of as being grape juice.

[Ahab]

1 hour ago, snowflake said:

When I section 89 and compare it to the "church standard" of the word of wisdom today I just have to shake my head.

Verse 5 and 6, wine is bad except for sacrament, you should make this wine yourselves.

Verse 10 and 11, it seems as though marijuana would be okay here (eaten of course with thanksgiving....ALL wholesome herbs ).

Verse 12 and 13, only eat meat in times of winter, cold or famine.

Verse 17 barley to be used for mild drinks (beer) is ok.

Can someone please tell me why we have strayed so far from the original word of wisdom?  I've been to so many 4th of July LDS cookouts and nobody has an issue with meat. But if I were to crack open a Bud Lite, all heck would break loose!  

 

We've always been counseled to seek inspiration from God for ourselves instead of just taking other people at their word when they say something.  People of good will generally give counsel/ advice which they think of as good advice but we're still supposed to do our own due diligence work, checking with God for ourselves. 

I feel much more in line with God's will for my diet now than I ever have before and I can honestly say that I follow the will of the Lord in what Joseph called the Word of Wisdom. 

[Ahab]

45 minutes ago, ERMD said:

I cannot tell.  Waco, Tx is the home of Dr Pepper, and as a graduate of Baylor University, I can admit to being of the Dr Pepper Illuminati, but I can reveal no more.

I grew up in Waco TX and my Mom used to send me to the store all the time to get her Dr Peppers.  In bottles back then. When I was a good boy she would give me 1 as a treat. I also liked to get Big Red for myself though.  Tastes like cherry bubble gum. 

[Jeanne]

30 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Except a beer.  Becks is one of my favorites and they bottle some up before they get fermented.  New wine is pretty good too, which I think of as being grape juice.

It is unfortunate that a cold beer just makes me burp!  Again...and again..As for wine..real nice with a dinner.  I am okay as long as I don't get up and start doing the "hoky poky"!

Edited April 18, 2016 by Jeanne

[Ahab]

1 hour ago, Jeanne said:

It is unfortunate that a cold beer just makes me burp!  Again...and again..As for wine..real nice with a dinner.  I am okay as long as I don't get up and start doing the "hoky poky"!

Yes, I agree. Almost as sad as people who are allergic to chocolate or... eh why go on when that is about as sad as sad can get, food wise.

[Jim Stiles]

On 4/18/2016 at 8:53 PM, Okrahomer said:

I'm not wanting to pick a fight, but I'm a bit suprised by the idea of including children here.  It seems you've given this some thought, but are you sure it's a good idea to allow children to taste alcohol?  What possible benefit could there be in doing this?  

 

Children have been consuming weak beers and watered down wine for centuries before Americans in the late 19th century decided that it was bad for children to consume any alcohol.  If children do not learn self-control when they are children, it is silly to expect them to learn it on their 21st birthday.  Unfortunately, nominal adults have drank themselves to death during their 21st birthday party.  Learning the legitimate use of alcohol is a part of becoming an adult.

[The Nehor]

On 4/18/2016 at 7:30 PM, Jim Stiles said:

Angry Orchard tastes like the self described hard cider a neighbor would make back in the 1970s.

Eating apples did not become a common practice until the middle of the 19th century.  Previously, apples were almost always consumed in liquid form.

Definitely puts a twist on Johnny Appleseed's motivations for planting so many apple trees.

[Okrahomer]

32 minutes ago, Jim Stiles said:

Children have been consuming weak beers and watered down wine for centuries before Americans in the late 19th century decided that it was bad for children to consume any alcohol.  If children do not learn self-control when they are children, it is silly to expect them to learn it on their 21st birthday.  Unfortunately, nominal adults have drank themselves to death during their 21st birthday party.  Learning the legitimate use of alcohol is a part of becoming an adult.

I understand what you're saying, but I think this theory of teaching self-control has largely been debunked.  Please see here,  here, here, and here.

"Conclusions:  Our findings that early sipping is associated with elevated odds of risky behaviors at high school entry dispute the idea of sipping as a protective factor. Offering even just a sip of alcohol may undermine messages about the unacceptability of alcohol consumption for youth."  http://www.jsad.com/doi/abs/10.15288/jsad.2015.76.212

 

[Jim Stiles]

4 hours ago, Okrahomer said:

I understand what you're saying, but I think this theory of teaching self-control has largely been debunked.  Please see here,  here, here, and here.

"Conclusions:  Our findings that early sipping is associated with elevated odds of risky behaviors at high school entry dispute the idea of sipping as a protective factor. Offering even just a sip of alcohol may undermine messages about the unacceptability of alcohol consumption for youth."  http://www.jsad.com/doi/abs/10.15288/jsad.2015.76.212

 

Children have been consuming weak alcoholic beverages (not sipping strong alcoholic beverages) for as long as alcoholic beverages have been produced (~11,500 years).  Alcohol consumption by youth has been regarded as unacceptable for less than 200 years.

[The Nehor]

18 minutes ago, Jim Stiles said:

Children have been consuming weak alcoholic beverages (not sipping strong alcoholic beverages) for as long as alcoholic beverages have been produced (~11,500 years).  Alcohol consumption by youth has been regarded as unacceptable for less than 200 years.

True, which is probably one of the reasons God did not prohibit it until this generation and even then only to his covenant people.

[why me]

On 17.4.2016 at 7:47 PM, Rivers said:

D&C 89:17 says that barley can be used for mild drinks. What alcohol content level would make something a mild barley drink?

I think that we need to keep in mind the availability of clean drinking water back then. I am sure that beer was on way to fill a thrist and it was safe to drink. Also, adverts were not that common, tempting people with a cold brew. What we see today are adverts offering nice temptations for people. Heaven forbid if I were a recovering alcoholic. Such adverts would certainly make their mouths water. I think that the word of wisdom has been proven to work very well for us humans. In many societies, domestic violence is often alcohol fuelled. And tobacco and cancer is a fact. And coffee is addictive as anyone with the morning shakes would tell you or having a headache until that first cup.

In some countries, there is home beer that families can drink. Very low alcohol level. But I do think church members still have this 'home' beer at lunch. Less than 1 percent alcohol. At the end of the day most people know what is okay and what is not.