Word of Wisdom and mild drinks

[thesometimesaint]

20 hours ago, hope_for_things said:

There have been hundreds of changes to Church doctrine (policy or doctrine, its just semantics), and will continue to be more into the future I imagine.  You can call these changes inspired, and that's fine with me.  I suggest you do some more research, study those books that I recommended and continue to study the history.  You likely won't learn anything new in GD class, but if your desire is to continue to rehash the same thing over and over again, feel free.  

I can't find anywhere in our AoF or Temple recommend interview questions that state that ALL direction in this church comes from God.  I can make a strong argument from the scriptures and teachings of modern leaders that God allows for a lot of human error.  The important thing is to try and determine what is from God and what isn't.  Making the assumption that its all from God or that we'll be blessed by following things that are erroneous just because, those are dangerous assumptions in my opinion.  

AoF #5.

TRQ #4.

I never said individuals within the Church are perfect, and are not subject to all the same faults, foibles, sins, and temptations that are common to man.

We are guaranteed however that accepted doctrines are what God wants.

There is but one test for what is what God wants for you. Ask him. You however can not speak for the Church.

[hope_for_things]

12 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

AoF #5.

TRQ #4.

I never said individuals within the Church are perfect, and are not subject to all the same faults, foibles, sins, and temptations that are common to man.

We are guaranteed however that accepted doctrines are what God wants.

There is but one test for what is what God wants for you. Ask him. You however can not speak for the Church.

AoF #5 & TRQ #4

Quote

We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church

AoF #5 talks about the calling, that the calling is of God.   It makes no claims that those called are inerrant or that everything they do comes from God.  That is a false assumption.  

TRQ #4 talks about sustaining.  Does sustaining mean we should agree with everything that leader does.  A lot of good discussion about sustaining over the years in the bloggernacle.  In a nut shell, I would say that you don't have to agree with everything a leader does to sustain them. 

It boils down to this.  Your assumption that "we are guaranteed... that accepted doctrines are what God wants" isn't supported by the above points you made.  I would call that perspective a blindly following your leaders pespective.  You may not like that characterization, but I can't see any distinction of difference in the points you made, please correct if you see it differently.  

Not sure what your last sentence is saying about me not speaking for the church, I wasn't claiming to do so.  

[thesometimesaint]

You are not paying attention.

I've never claimed everything they ever say/said is from God. Only that the doctrines of the Church are what God wants.

I've never said I or anyone else has to agree with everything our leaders do and say. I never have and probably never will.

To follow blindly is to disobey God, and his Apostles.

Everything I say here is my own opinion, and is not binding on the Church.

[JAHS]

Caffeine: The Silent Killer of Success

"New research from Johns Hopkins Medical School shows that performance increases due to caffeine intake are the result of caffeine drinkers experiencing a short-term reversal of caffeine withdrawal. By controlling for caffeine use in study participants, John Hopkins researchers found that caffeine-related performance improvement is nonexistent without caffeine withdrawal. In essence, coming off caffeine reduces your cognitive performance and has a negative impact on your mood. The only way to get back to normal is to drink caffeine, and when you do drink it, you feel like it’s taking you to new heights. In reality, the caffeine is just taking your performance back to normal for a short period.

Irritability and anxiety are the most commonly seen emotional effects of caffeine, but caffeine enables all of your emotions to take charge.The negative effects of a caffeine-generated adrenaline surge are not just behavioral. Researchers at Carnegie Mellon University found that large doses of caffeine raise blood pressure, stimulate the heart, and produce rapid shallow breathing.

 Caffeine disrupts the quality of your sleep by reducing rapid eye movement (REM) sleep, the deep sleep when your body recuperates and processes emotions. When caffeine disrupts your sleep, you wake up the next day with an emotional handicap. You’re naturally going to be inclined to grab a cup of coffee or an energy drink to try to make yourself feel better. The caffeine produces surges of adrenaline, which further your emotional handicap. Caffeine and lack of sleep leave you feeling tired in the afternoon, so you drink more caffeine, which leaves even more of it in your bloodstream at bedtime. Caffeine very quickly creates a vicious cycle.

Like any stimulant, caffeine is physiologically and psychologically addictive. If you do choose to lower your caffeine intake, you should do so slowly under the guidance of a qualified medical professional. The researchers at Johns Hopkins found that caffeine withdrawal causes headache, fatigue, sleepiness, and difficulty concentrating."

 

[halconero]

Eh, a close reading of the Word of Wisdom reveals it as a temple, or preparatory-temple text. The promise reward is tied to temple ordinances and therefore exaltation.

Interestingly, even the demands of the texts as it currently stands are considered light and adapted to the capacity of the weakest of the Saints. My inclinations are that there will come a time where law will be revealed for the strongest of the Saints. I've shared my opinions on what that might include on here previously.

[Jeanne]

On 4/19/2016 at 6:13 PM, Ahab said:

Yes, I agree. Almost as sad as people who are allergic to chocolate or... eh why go on when that is about as sad as sad can get, food wise.

Chocolate???  What is sad today is dark chocolate is supposed to be better for you...but I loooooooove my milk chocolate!!  Actually, the whole word of wisdom thing is basic common sense as far as moderation.  I know people who smoke that have outlived their family members who weigh over 300 pounds.  When they taxed cigs again and again, I wanted them to tax potato chips, sweet drinks and everything else for those going out the check out counter that weighed 300 pounds or more.  I am not condemning those who have thyroid issues and such..but c'mon..if one wants to talk about costs in healthcare..let's tax everyone!

[thesometimesaint]

23 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Chocolate???  What is sad today is dark chocolate is supposed to be better for you...but I loooooooove my milk chocolate!!  Actually, the whole word of wisdom thing is basic common sense as far as moderation.  I know people who smoke that have outlived their family members who weigh over 300 pounds.  When they taxed cigs again and again, I wanted them to tax potato chips, sweet drinks and everything else for those going out the check out counter that weighed 300 pounds or more.  I am not condemning those who have thyroid issues and such..but c'mon..if one wants to talk about costs in healthcare..let's tax everyone!

No one has to drink alcohol or smoke tobacco. All Gods' children have to eat.

[Jeanne]

20 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

No one has to drink alcohol or smoke tobacco. All Gods' children have to eat.

I agree..  I should not really have brought this up and I apologize.  My thought in general was towards healthcare costs not the WOW. 

[thesometimesaint]

5 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

I agree..  I should not really have brought this up and I apologize.  My thought in general was towards healthcare costs not the WOW. 

It is a good idea to bring up. So no apology is necessary. I do believe that following the WoW does decrease healthcare costs.

[snowflake]

The ban on meat except for in times of winter, cold or famine is clearly not observed in the mainstream LDS sect, any thoughts on why this is the case?  

[thesometimesaint]

6 minutes ago, snowflake said:

The ban on meat except for in times of winter, cold or famine is clearly not observed in the mainstream LDS sect, any thoughts on why this is the case?  

There is no ban on eating meat. Though to be fair most of us would be better off, health wise, to eat less of it. When the WoW was written smoking and/or drying was the only safe way to preserve meats. Modern canning and refrigeration make such unnecessary. But people still enjoy bacon, ham, and jerky.

[JAHS]

2 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

There is no ban on eating meat. Though to be fair most of us would be better off, health wise, to eat less of it. When the WoW was written smoking and/or drying was the only safe way to preserve meats. Modern canning and refrigeration make such unnecessary. But people still enjoy bacon, ham, and jerky.

For this reason I think it's always wise to consider the times and circumstances when a revelation was given and to listen to our prophets who can give us counsel on how to live such teachings in today's world. Nowhere in the Word of Wisdom does it say anything about the illegal addictive drugs we have today, yet I am sure most would agree that they fall under the purview of this revelation. And now that we have much easier ways to preserve meats, they are not so much a concern to us now as to when we eat them. 

[Bernard Gui]

There are some pretty good non-alcoholic beers.... as long as you aren't expecting them to be "real" beer.

A truck stop in our area used to advertise "500 beer varieties." They had about 50 non-alcoholics from around

the world. Some were pretty good just as a stand-alone beverage.

I once said that the WoW recommends we drink non-alcoholic beer, but I was soundly chastised by several readers.

 

[Rivers]

14 hours ago, snowflake said:

The ban on meat except for in times of winter, cold or famine is clearly not observed in the mainstream LDS sect, any thoughts on why this is the case?  

I hear the "sparingly" part talked about a lot, but the "winter and times of famine" usually gets neglected. 

The Word of Wisdom in its entirety is referred to as "not by commandment" in the beginning of section 89.  So maybe parts of the WOW have been made into commandments while other parts are left as guidelines. 

[thesometimesaint]

6 hours ago, Rivers said:

I hear the "sparingly" part talked about a lot, but the "winter and times of famine" usually gets neglected. 

The Word of Wisdom in its entirety is referred to as "not by commandment" in the beginning of section 89.  So maybe parts of the WOW have been made into commandments while other parts are left as guidelines. 

We shouldn't become absolutists with the WoW. IE: Vanilla extract has alcohol in it, but unless you're guzzling it, I don't see a problem. Don't use the artificial stuff. It is junk..Those nice yeast breads everyone likes have alcohol in them, but it so little, I don't see a problem. As always if you are allergic to something don't eat it. 

[Bernard Gui]

5 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

We shouldn't become absolutists with the WoW. IE: Vanilla extract has alcohol in it, but unless you're guzzling it, I don't see a problem. Don't use the artificial stuff. It is junk..Those nice yeast breads everyone likes have alcohol in them, but it so little, I don't see a problem. As always if you are allergic to something don't eat it. 

Bikel Theo
AWAY WITH RUM

We're coming, we're coming, our brave little band
On the right side of temperance we do take our stand
We don't use tobacco, because we do think
The people who use it are likely to drink

Away, away with rum by gum, with rum by gum, with rum by gum
Away, away with rum by gum, the song of the temperance union

We never eat fruit cake because it has rum
And one little taste turns a man to a bum
Oh, can you imagine a sorrier sight
Than a man eating fruit cake until he gets tight

We never eat cookies because they have yeast
And one little bite turns a man to a beast
Oh, can you imagine a sadder disgrace
Than a man in the gutter with crumbs on his face

If you wash your hair, never rinse it with beer
Because if you do, you'll get foam in your ear
And if there's one thing a young man must dread
It's dating a girl with a head on her head

We never eat peaches, because peaches ferment
And peaches ferment at the least little dent
Oh can you imagine a sorrier sight
Than a man drunk on peaches he thought were alright

We never eat oatmeal, because oatmeal is mush
And one little bite turns a man to a lush
Oh can you imagine the pain of a ma
To watch little junior act just like his pa

We never chew toothpicks because we recall
That wood ferments into wood alcohol
Oh can you imagine a sorrier sight
Than a man chewing toothpicks until he gets tight

We never drink water, they put it in gin
One little sip and a man starts to grin
Oh can you imagine the horrible sight
Of a man drinking water and singing all night
 

[RevTestament]

On Friday, April 22, 2016 at 10:18 AM, JAHS said:

Caffeine: The Silent Killer of Success

"New research from Johns Hopkins Medical School shows that performance increases due to caffeine intake are the result of caffeine drinkers experiencing a short-term reversal of caffeine withdrawal. By controlling for caffeine use in study participants, John Hopkins researchers found that caffeine-related performance improvement is nonexistent without caffeine withdrawal. In essence, coming off caffeine reduces your cognitive performance and has a negative impact on your mood. The only way to get back to normal is to drink caffeine, and when you do drink it, you feel like it’s taking you to new heights. In reality, the caffeine is just taking your performance back to normal for a short period.

Irritability and anxiety are the most commonly seen emotional effects of caffeine, but caffeine enables all of your emotions to take charge.The negative effects of a caffeine-generated adrenaline surge are not just behavioral. Researchers at Carnegie Mellon University found that large doses of caffeine raise blood pressure, stimulate the heart, and produce rapid shallow breathing.

 Caffeine disrupts the quality of your sleep by reducing rapid eye movement (REM) sleep, the deep sleep when your body recuperates and processes emotions. When caffeine disrupts your sleep, you wake up the next day with an emotional handicap. You’re naturally going to be inclined to grab a cup of coffee or an energy drink to try to make yourself feel better. The caffeine produces surges of adrenaline, which further your emotional handicap. Caffeine and lack of sleep leave you feeling tired in the afternoon, so you drink more caffeine, which leaves even more of it in your bloodstream at bedtime. Caffeine very quickly creates a vicious cycle.

Like any stimulant, caffeine is physiologically and psychologically addictive. If you do choose to lower your caffeine intake, you should do so slowly under the guidance of a qualified medical professional. The researchers at Johns Hopkins found that caffeine withdrawal causes headache, fatigue, sleepiness, and difficulty concentrating."

The caffeine in coffee also stimulates the release of cortisol with the adrenaline which is a stress hormone which does tend to increase your alertness etc. Of course a constant increase of cortisol has been shown to have negative effects such as weight gain through indirect effects on the metabolism.

[busybee]

On 20/04/2016 at 11:12 PM, Jim Stiles said:

Caffeine lowers blood pressure because it is a diuretic.

Not so. Caffeine acts as a stimulant in the central nervous system and as such, causes an increase in blood pressure. As has been mentioned, it causes the release of the hormones cortisol and adrenaline. These hormones have the direct effect of increasing blood pressure. The diuretic effect of caffeine is not enough to counteract the effects it has as a stimulant.

Edited April 24, 2016 by busybee

[Jeanne]

Does anyone here think that perhaps the WOW should not be a part of a Temple Recommend Interview?  Just curious. 

[VideoGameJunkie]

Energy drinks are worse for your health and heart than coffee.

[Bernard Gui]

4 hours ago, Jeanne said:

Does anyone here think that perhaps the WOW should not be a part of a Temple Recommend Interview?  Just curious. 

I have often thought that it would be much more reverent in the temple if more of the patrons were drunk, stoned, or otherwise chemically impaired.

The smell of stale cigarette smoke always enhances the environment.

[Jeanne]

3 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I have often thought that it would be much more reverent in the temple if more of the patrons were drunk, stoned, or otherwise chemically impaired.

The smell of stale cigarette smoke always enhances the environment.

Well think about it...a bunch of happy campers that made it to the celestial room!  I am going to assume you knew what I really meant.

[RevTestament]

22 hours ago, Jeanne said:

Does anyone here think that perhaps the WOW should not be a part of a Temple Recommend Interview?  Just curious.

I think the idea is to encourage the saints to be clean in their everyday lives. Hence the question about chastity. Also any other sins which need to be resolved which haven't been, etc. When asked about the WoW I invariably say something like I generally only eat one portion of meat per day, and I consider that to be sparingly, to which sometimes I get the response that "we mean do you drink coffee, tea, or alcohol..." Then maybe that is what they should ask. I see no reason to limit the test to only part of the WoW, which was not given as a commandment but as a guideline. This tends to give the false impression that everyone entering the temple "keeps the WoW" when they do not - they eat meat at every meal, they avoid vegetables, grains and don't buy fruit so are not partaking of the "staff of life." One could eat a McDonald's Happy Meal every meal and meet the standard. Smoking can be disallowed in temples by way of policy, but drunks can enter drunk. Can the Lord have a different standard for entering the temple? I think so - I think clearly He does as the path is straight and the way narrow, and many don't find it, while still eventually being saved. Making covenants with the Lord is different than following the law, and one should make such covenants in their natural, un-influenced or "un-impaired" state. In this vein, I think the concern would be addressed if patrons were asked "Do you committ to abstain from coffee, tea, alcohol, tobacco and illicit drugs when entering the temple?"

As it is many people who smoke feel like they cannot be LDS. I have to assure them they are welcome to come to church, but we just ask they leave their cigarettes home. It seems to me some members have trouble extending a welcoming hand to investigators with such habits.

[Gray]

22 hours ago, Jeanne said:

Does anyone here think that perhaps the WOW should not be a part of a Temple Recommend Interview?  Just curious. 

Personally I don't think it's an important enough issue to merit inclusion in the temple recommend interview. Ditto for tithing. In fact the whole interview process is, I think, unnecessary except perhaps for the purpose of new callings, or perhaps as a kind of getting to know you, preparatory thing before you get your endowments. 

[Jeanne]

22 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

I think the idea is to encourage the saints to be clean in their everyday lives. Hence the question about chastity. Also any other sins which need to be resolved which haven't been, etc. When asked about the WoW I invariably say something like I generally only eat one portion of meat per day, and I consider that to be sparingly, to which sometimes I get the response that "we mean do you drink coffee, tea, or alcohol..." Then maybe that is what they should ask. I see no reason to limit the test to only part of the WoW, which was not given as a commandment but as a guideline. This tends to give the false impression that everyone entering the temple "keeps the WoW" when they do not - they eat meat at every meal, they avoid vegetables, grains and don't buy fruit so are not partaking of the "staff of life." One could eat a McDonald's Happy Meal every meal and meet the standard. Smoking can be disallowed in temples by way of policy, but drunks can enter drunk. Can the Lord have a different standard for entering the temple? I think so - I think clearly He does as the path is straight and the way narrow, and many don't find it, while still eventually being saved. Making covenants with the Lord is different than following the law, and one should make such covenants in their natural, un-influenced or "un-impaired" state. In this vein, I think the concern would be addressed if patrons were asked "Do you committ to abstain from coffee, tea, alcohol, tobacco and illicit drugs when entering the temple?"

As it is many people who smoke feel like they cannot be LDS. I have to assure them they are welcome to come to church, but we just ask they leave their cigarettes home. It seems to me some members have trouble extending a welcoming hand to investigators with such habits.

Thanks for your reply.  I am glad that there is some who give that welcoming hand..realistically, we all have bad habits.