Wishing for answers

[DBMormon]

Your welcome to answer them but I wish the Brethren would answer these directly.

"God’s kingdom, where questions are honored" - Elder Oaks

HERE ARE MY 21 SINCERE QUESTIONS I HOPE THE BRETHREN WOULD HONOR BY ANSWERING EACH OF THEM AS THEY ARE.

These are sincere questions I have that would go a long way to resolve my doubt and even more my frustration.  It doesn't even matter what the answers are, only that my leaders be vulnerable enough to answer them without changing the questions or avoiding them.  I realize that it may seem as though some questions are duplicated but I assure you they are different to me.  Please honor that.  Brethren, I need you to answer these, please.  Gone are the days where you can change my question or deflect it to apologists or scholars, or avoid them altogether.  Even an "I don't know" would go really far to help me.

1.) Can one pay tithing in the present on surplus income and still be a temple worthy and faithful Latter-day Saint? especially in light of the historical and theological evidence that this was the way it was intended/understood?  My question here is based on what I percieve is your discomfort in giving people this option in your public discourse while seemingly approving the 10% of Gross definition in spite that history, scripture, and revelation seem to give more validity to Surplus or something like it.  

2.) Have all 15 prophets seers and revelators at any one time been united on doctrine only to be shown to be wrong? in light of the Race and Priesthood essay. While you seem to hint at this, you seem to steer clear of ever acknowledging it publicly.  It seems you like you are willing to acknowledge this on some surface level and history bears it out but you seem determined to not say this to general membership.

3.) Do you concede church stances on issues have likely contributed to youth suicide especially the Church stances on LGBT issues?

4.) How much money do Full time Seventies get paid.... what about Apostles?

5.) Did you sign a non-disclosure form when joining the seventy... What about the 12?

6.) Was the priesthood ban an error rooted in racism? Again you seem happy to have your words be ambiguous so both sides fight over their meaning... could you just tell us what the essay is saying?

7.) Did John Taylor receive a revelation from God in 1896 that we turn a blind eye to.... Why?  you agree it seems to be Christ speaking and that polygamy will never end and that it was the new and everlasting covenant?  As a followup - You do see how our fundamentalist Brothers and Sisters in the break off groups can validate their schism from this revelation right?

8.) Is it true that Brigham young taught that he believed his Adam God ideas were revelation from God and if he did, why do we now say he was wrong?  The quotes are there, it is just important to hear you acknowledge it due to the repercussion of disavowing an idea once taught by a prophet as revelation revealed from God.

9.) Is it true that while leaders claim to be scripture, that scripture can be wrong?

10.) Is it true that no explanation for the book of Abraham is without deep problems?

11.) Is it true that the strengthen members committee keeps records on dissenting members to assist or encourage local leaders to weed them out?  Do they have a file on me? Can I see it?

12.) Is it true that while Church Public Affairs insists that all discipline matters are handles locally that certain discipline cases have been encouraged by members of the 12 and seventy with pressure to go after certain individuals?

13.) To the top 15 men, have you seen Jesus face to face individually and collectively or one or the other?  If you have not seen him collectively How can you know when you are getting revelation from him and not your own biased prejudiced views like leaders in the past

14.) Why do you continue to pose hope as less than knowing when Alma 32 seems to value both as gifts to be honored by God?

15.) Did the brethren approve/ know / authorize shock treatment to the genitals to "cure" gays at BYU?  Because we can no longer debate if this was done.  It was.  You know that right?

16.) Why do you tell us we can trust you as having attained the mind and will of God when all 15 of you are united when that has seemingly failed in the past and present leaders among you admit as much in the Race essay that approved by the 1st presidency on LDS.ORG

17) Can you help us understand how the top 15 under George Albert Smith were unitedly wrong about Doctrine that is today disavowed theories but in the next breath assure us that the current top 15 are absolutely right on the doctrine of LGBT members?

18.) Why on one hand do we declare that Joseph Smith said, “I never told you I was perfect; but there is no error in the revelations" as if that shows the revelation of today's leaders can be trusted and on the other hand we have set aside several revelations from prophets as being understood today as not true? (Adam God, John Taylor 1886 revelation, and others)

19.) Why do you insist on our not trusting the internet for answers to our questions when you either change our questions or avoid answering them altogether?  In other words why say gone are the days teachers can avoid the tough questions of students but that is exactly what you do?

20.) Why do you not speak up in General Conference and tell our gay youth not to hurt themselves?

21.) How are we to trust our experiences with the spirit when those of other faiths have the same kind of experiences giving them testimony of their beliefs which contradict ours?  Can you validate that others seem to have the exact same experiences about contradicting beliefs?  Can you validate that others outside our faith seemingly feel the holy ghost as strong as those in our faith who have "The Gift of the Holy Ghost"

22.) Was it true that Joseph's treasure digging and mystical practices go much deeper than he let on?  can you truly grasp why stuff like this disturbs peoples faith?

23.) Was there ever a revelation from Christ to cease the participation of the sisters in blessings? If so where can I find it?

 
Honestly acknowledge your questions and your concerns - Elder Holland
 
 
In this Church that honors personal agency so strongly, that was restored by a young man who asked questions and sought answers, we respect those who honestly search for truth. - Elder Uchtdorf
 
We openly acknowledge that in nearly 200 years of Church history—along with an uninterrupted line of inspired, honorable, and divine events—there have been some things said and done that could cause people to question. - Elder Uchtdorf
 
It’s natural to have questions—the acorn of honest inquiry has often sprouted and matured into a great oak of understanding. There are few members of the Church who, at one time or another, have not wrestled with serious or sensitive questions. - Elder Uchtdorf
 

“Gone are the days when a student asked an honest question and a teacher responded, ‘Don’t worry about it!’ Gone are the days when a student raised a sincere concern and a teacher bore his or her testimony as a response intended to avoid the issue. ” - Elder Ballard

What questions do you have that you wish would be honored?

Edited April 8, 2016 by DBMormon

[CMZ]

It's late and I can't answer all these but there are answers for them. How 'bout I briefly address the first and the last? Oh, and maybe one near the middle too.

 

1. Yes. It's up to the member to determine if they are a full tithe payer. Never once in my 46 years have I had a bishop attempt to investigate the matter or inquire any further as to if I was truly a full tithe-payer. I suspect this trend will continue.

13. I do know what a Regional Representative told me on this subject in the early 1990's.

21. The wonderful thing about a testimony is that it really is personal. We learn the voice of the Spirit over time until it becomes very clear. I wouldn't say I'm at the stage President Monson is at but I have made significant progress in my life in recognizing that voice. Since a testimony is personal we needn't get too worked up about what others claim they might be receiving. We're not them so for us it doesn't matter too much.

[CMZ]

I could stay up and answer more of these questions (apologies for not being omniscient though) because I do believe honest questions deserve honest answers, but I better go to bed. For now I can point to a devotional address by Elder Christofferson that I was quite impressed by:

http://www2.byui.edu/Presentations/Transcripts/Devotionals/2013_9_24_Christofferson.htm

I'd pull out some salient quotes from it but I feel an honest seeker after truth can give it half an hour of their time. Even the footnotes are instructive.

Edited April 8, 2016 by CMZ

[Hamba Tuhan]

41 minutes ago, DBMormon said:

I wish the Brethren would answer these directly.

I could be wrong, but I don't think any of them participate in this forum.

Quote

What questions do you have that you wish would be honored?

What could I do to help more members of my ward to engage in the work of salvation?

[Duncan]

it would be George Albert Smith and the 14, not 15

[oremites]

4 hours ago, DBMormon said:

18.) Why on one hand do we declare that Joseph Smith said, “I never told you I was perfect; but there is no error in the revelations.” and on the other hand we have set aside several revelations as being understood today as not true? (Adam God, John Taylor 1886 revelation, and others)

Actually, we declare that Joseph Smith said, “I never told you I was perfect—but there is no error in the revelations which I have taught.”  I've never heard this quote used in the abbreviated form you presented.

That may seem nit-picky, but my personal experience with getting answers is that they didn't come until I questioned my questions.  Once I made sure I was asking the right things, the answers came.

I hope you get the answers you seek. 

Edited April 8, 2016 by oremites

[cdowis]

Is it really true that entangled particles continue to maintain their connection, even across intergalactic distances?  Why is that so.

I have 20 other questions, but perhaps I have already made the point 
" I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics." ~Richard Feynman   

Does this mean that we must abandon basic laws of physics because we simply do not understand them?  There are loud and strident voices that tell us to abandon our faith, to abandon what we actually know to be true because..... well, because there are some things we just do not understand.

Go ahead and ask the questions, but allow me to ask you some questions in turn.

Edited April 8, 2016 by cdowis

[DBMormon]

3 hours ago, oremites said:

Actually, we declare that Joseph Smith said, “I never told you I was perfect—but there is no error in the revelations which I have taught.”  I've never heard this quote used in the abbreviated form you presented.

That may seem nit-picky, but my personal experience with getting answers is that they didn't come until I questioned my questions.  Once I made sure I was asking the right things, the answers came.

I hope you get the answers you seek. 

Off Lds.org just as it is

 

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2012/10/trial-of-your-faith?lang=eng

Edited April 8, 2016 by DBMormon

[Hamba Tuhan]

36 minutes ago, cdowis said:

Is it really true that entangled particles continue to maintain their connection, even across intergalactic distances?  Why is that so.

This is a great question! Einstein called it 'spooky action at a distance' before it was verified.

[Storm Rider]

Hello DB, I honestly enjoy your participation on the Board.  I cannot answer your questions for numerous reasons.  I get the impression that your motivations for asking the questions are something that I cannot heal or resolve; the questions themselves seem to only be the face of the real issue.

You are not alone in your questioning.  It is my feeling that the nature of man is to question.  I strongly think that a questioning individual will find their answers when their heart is aligned with the Spirit.  Does that make sense to you?  

I have been a student of religion for decades.  I have yet to find a perfect man in any of my studies - I have found a perfect God.  For his own reasons he is striving to make us like him and we tend to ignore him for the most part or, at least, we are less  than valiant in following him.  This manner of obedience and shirking our duty to God is not something that I get too hung up on.  It is my belief that if our hearts are in the right place then God's Grace will cover our many, repeated shortcomings.  The object is to remain willing to follow Christ, willing to take his name upon us.  

You can find peace because he stands at the door of our hearts offering his peace to each of us.  It never fails to amaze me how often we refuse the peace we so desperately want.  

[Atheist Mormon]

"Wishing for answers "

I have no comments about your well thought questions, my question is how do you reconcile bringing forth this questions with your testimony?

I'm referring to "I have a testimony" Podcast? 

[Boanerges]

I would have said what Storm Rider said, especially this:

Quote

I have been a student of religion for decades.  I have yet to find a perfect man in any of my studies - I have found a perfect God.  For his own reasons he is striving to make us like him and we tend to ignore him for the most part or, at least, we are less  than valiant in following him.  This manner of obedience and shirking our duty to God is not something that I get too hung up on.  It is my belief that if our hearts are in the right place then God's Grace will cover our many, repeated shortcomings.  The object is to remain willing to follow Christ, willing to take his name upon us.

Likewise I hope you find the peace you seek. The peace comes from Jesus Christ and is found within us, it does not come from answers to questions like these.

[consiglieri]

I think that is a good list of questions.  (I would note that the date on John Taylor's revelation may be late as I think he wasn't alive in 1896.)

Your list of questions brings up issues to which the current LDS leadership knows the answers--and knows them right now.

In other words, they could respond to each and every one of these questions if they chose.

But they do not choose to answer them.

Which highlights in stark relief the degree to which the LDS Church is still in many ways seeking to operate in the shadows.

An observation which challenges Elder Oaks' recent General Conference claim that the LDS Church is trying to be as transparent as it can be.

[ERMD]

I take the counsel of continuing to ask questions to mean that I am to search for answers, particularly through inspiration, scripture study, and temple attendance.  In order for these to produce the desired result (in the Lord's time), I must live worthy to enjoy the influence of the Holy Ghost.  There are many facets to that.

I do not take it to mean that someone in an office somewhere is going to provide me an answer to every question that crosses my mind.

[DBMormon]

1 hour ago, Storm Rider said:

Hello DB, I honestly enjoy your participation on the Board.  I cannot answer your questions for numerous reasons.  I get the impression that your motivations for asking the questions are something that I cannot heal or resolve; the questions themselves seem to only be the face of the real issue.

You are not alone in your questioning.  It is my feeling that the nature of man is to question.  I strongly think that a questioning individual will find their answers when their heart is aligned with the Spirit.  Does that make sense to you?  

I have been a student of religion for decades.  I have yet to find a perfect man in any of my studies - I have found a perfect God.  For his own reasons he is striving to make us like him and we tend to ignore him for the most part or, at least, we are less  than valiant in following him.  This manner of obedience and shirking our duty to God is not something that I get too hung up on.  It is my belief that if our hearts are in the right place then God's Grace will cover our many, repeated shortcomings.  The object is to remain willing to follow Christ, willing to take his name upon us.  

You can find peace because he stands at the door of our hearts offering his peace to each of us.  It never fails to amaze me how often we refuse the peace we so desperately want.  

I appreciate your kindness.  I feel I have the answer to many of these for myself.  My issue is the Brethren like to stand back and say "Gone are the days when we brush people off and give simple answers" and yet that is exactly what they do.  My questions are sincere.  I would appreciate the Brethren willingness to acknowledge these questions and give answers even if those answers hurt people faith in false things or even if the answer was "we don't know".  For me to be healed, I need to see that the Church has matured enough to be willing to come face to face with its own paradoxes and contradictions rather than perpetuate the simple stories around them.  Again thanks.

Edited April 8, 2016 by DBMormon

[rodheadlee]

Did you send your list of questions in to the Church HQ?

[HappyJackWagon]

One of my main questions right now is...

Is it possible we don't have a perfect understanding of God's mind, will, and processes? If it's possible we don't understand perfectly, why are definitive statements made that imply we know/understand things as they will be eternally?

Example- What is the role of homosexuals in God's plan of happiness? You imply that gays can't eternally procreate and therefore shouldn't marry or have families, but are eternal spirits procreated in the same way physical bodies are? If so, is there a source for a revelation? Or is it possible we don't understand God and his processes for procreating/organizing spirits from eternal intelligence? If we don't know for sure, couldn't we allow the possibility that gays have an eternal role in the plan of happiness, just as they are?

Edited April 8, 2016 by HappyJackWagon

[DBMormon]

5 minutes ago, ERMD said:

I take the counsel of continuing to ask questions to mean that I am to search for answers, particularly through inspiration, scripture study, and temple attendance.  In order for these to produce the desired result (in the Lord's time), I must live worthy to enjoy the influence of the Holy Ghost.  There are many facets to that.

I do not take it to mean that someone in an office somewhere is going to provide me an answer to every question that crosses my mind.

you misunderstand the purpose of my questions. For instance no amount of prayer and scripture study will tell me how much income a apostle gets.  Only they can answer that.  no amount of prayer and scripture study can tell me if they as a group comprehend the paradoxes and contradictions of what they teach or of our history and if they fully validate the repercussions of where those issues lead once you acknowledge them.  If they answered these questions, the entire way general membership framed "What is the Church"  What is my testimony" and " What is a prophet and what should I expect and not expect from him and other leaders" would have to shift dramatically.

[CA Steve]

I would like to see more information about the membership numbers and financial statements going back to when they stopped reporting them.

[Rivers]

I don't see the 1886 revelation as a problem. The revelation states that the new and everlasting covenent won't be revoked. It hasn't. It is still in full force in temples today. The new and everlasting covenant is not polygamy.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Rivers
Correct date.

[cdowis]

31 minutes ago, consiglieri said:

Your list of questions brings up issues to which the current LDS leadership knows the answers--and knows them right now.

In other words, they could respond to each and every one of these questions if they chose.

But they do not choose to answer them.

This assertion requires a CFR,  unless, like Harry Reid, it was the guy in the mirror that told you.  

We look forward to see your source.  

Perhaps the nameless General Authority that is visiting Palmer in the middle of the night.  Perhaps they fear the Danites, or they will lose their multimillion dollar stipend they received by agreeing to use tithing money to build the mall??  

Edited April 8, 2016 by cdowis

[oremites]

2 hours ago, DBMormon said:

Off Lds.org just as it is

I stand corrected.  I have now heard of one example of the abbreviated use of that quote.  Saturday afternoon session? Yeah, I most likely napped through that one . I still don't believe that justifies saying, "... we declare ..."

I also noted this in the same talk:  "There is an important principle that governs the doctrine of the Church. The doctrine is taught by all 15 members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve. It is not hidden in an obscure paragraph of one talk. True principles are taught frequently and by many. Our doctrine is not difficult to find."

[DBMormon]

7 minutes ago, oremites said:

I stand corrected.  I have now heard of one example of the abbreviated use of that quote.  Saturday afternoon session? Yeah, I most likely napped through that one . I still don't believe that justifies saying, "... we declare ..."

I also noted this in the same talk:  "There is an important principle that governs the doctrine of the Church. The doctrine is taught by all 15 members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve. It is not hidden in an obscure paragraph of one talk. True principles are taught frequently and by many. Our doctrine is not difficult to find."

If we are taking Doctrine to mean truth from God this quote is demonstrably false.  If instead the quote is meant to simply mean the current teachings of the Church than it is true but useless.

Edited April 8, 2016 by DBMormon

[Atheist Mormon]

 "For instance no amount of prayer and scripture study will tell me how........"

Exactly....You have the answer right there, no amount of prayers, pleadings, meditations will be answered, I might sound a little callous but after 6 decades of life experience  & seeing nothing in return entitles me being so..... Your questions at large will not be answered, they don't have to, Church is a private institution and does not make decisions with the guidance of it's members, (they are answerable only to God).

[DBMormon]

Just now, Atheist Mormon said:

 "For instance no amount of prayer and scripture study will tell me how........"

Exactly....You have the answer right there, no amount of prayers, pleadings, meditations will be answered, I might sound a little callous but after 6 decades of life experience  & seeing nothing in return entitles me being so..... Your questions at large will not be answered, they don't have to, Church is a private institution and does not make decisions with the guidance of it's members, (they are answerable only to God).

One has to ask WWJD.  I don't think he would avoid such discussions if raised but that is only my assumption of WWJD.