UtahTexan Posted April 10, 2016 Posted April 10, 2016 1 hour ago, DBMormon said: So do a lot of other things Yes....a shame you demonstrated several of them
DBMormon Posted April 10, 2016 Author Posted April 10, 2016 6 minutes ago, CountryBoy said: Yes....a shame you demonstrated several of them May you too have a blessed night. I mean that. 1
Popular Post juliann Posted April 10, 2016 Popular Post Posted April 10, 2016 34 minutes ago, DBMormon said: your missing the nuance that stands between the two. I asked these questions as the answers to them matter. Not because I simply need an answer to these questions. I already have personal answers to them. Rather I need to hear the Church's answers to these questions. Again what their answer is matters little but rather I need to see if the Church is mature enough to be willing. This is a very long thread but I have not seen you entertain answers. You keep asking questions but don't seem interested in answers. That would annoy anyone after a awhile. And if you only want "the Church" to answer why are you posting it here? Isnt' that a little bit of a bait and switch? What are we supposed to do with it? 8
Popular Post smac97 Posted April 10, 2016 Popular Post Posted April 10, 2016 9 minutes ago, DBMormon said: your missing the nuance that stands between the two. I asked these questions as the answers to them matter. Not because I simply need an answer to these questions. I already have personal answers to them. Rather I need to hear the Church's answers to these questions. I don't buy this. First, it makes no kind of sense to present these "questions" in a forum where we all know they have zero chance of being answered by "the Church." Second, these "questions" are not presented in good faith. They are loaded. They are compound. They are vague. The are asked-and-answered. They are presented as a pretext for publishing a laundry list of complaints and criticisms. Third, claiming in this board that you "need to hear the Church's answer to these questions" only further solidifies my assessment. You are posturing here. You are not speaking to "the Church" and you know it. Your "questions" are not directed to "the Church" and you know it. Your "questions" are posed for reasons other than seeking answers. They are not presented in good faith. Quote Again what their answer is matters little but rather I need to see if the Church is mature enough to be willing. Again, you sound like a schoolyard bully with this nonsense. And if gauging the Church's maturity and willingness were really your objective, you would not be posting these questions on this board. No reasonable person would do so with the expectation that the Brethren are monitoring this particular board, ready to hop to as soon as DB Mormon issues a laundry list of criticisms and complaints (to which, by your own admission, you already know the answers). Gimme a break. You are breaking my plausibility meter with this silliness. Quote We stress humility, willingness, and Charity in our faith and if the Church would ever be willing to answer the questions head on, it would demonstrate to me all three of these sufficient enough for me to regain trust in the Church as a safe space for me and tens of thousands of others like me who want to stay in the Church but feel the Church is not a safe space. So these are not questions geared toward the acquisition of information. Yes, I get that. You've loaded the deck here. There is no good faith to these questions. Not a speck. Not a whit. This is all just posturing. Pretext. You are now on record. You have presented these questions because you presume to pass judgment on The Church of Jesus Christ. These questions are a test. Of the Church. By you. And now that you've posted them on this board, you expect "the Church" to locate them and answer them. And if it doesn't, then the Church is not "mature." Not "willing." Not worthy of your "trust." Not a "safe space." I am reminded of this quote by Joseph Smith: Quote I will give you one of the Keys of the mysteries of the Kingdom. It is an eternal principle, that has existed with God from all eternity: That man who rises up to condemn others, finding fault with the Church, saying that they are out of the way, while he himself is righteous, then know assuredly, that that man is in the high road to apostasy; and if he does not repent, will apostatize, as God lives. In the spirit of this quote, I will leave it to each of us to determine for ourselves the application of it to our lives and conduct. Thanks, -Smac 6
UtahTexan Posted April 10, 2016 Posted April 10, 2016 5 minutes ago, DBMormon said: May you too have a blessed night. I mean that. Thank you! I am supremely blessed!
Jeanne Posted April 10, 2016 Posted April 10, 2016 3 minutes ago, CountryBoy said: then you are not paying anything .....so...... This is true. But when I reactivated years earlier, I remember asking the Bishop "am I paying enough"? Sometimes when I post here I write like i am still a member. I don't mean to but a part of me will always be Mormon. We have all done our share in contributions to the church in one area or another. Some is voluntary..like the Sunday School Teacher who pays out of her own pocket to create something special for class..but calling tithing voluntary doesn't seem right. The conditions by which you can do any ordinance in the Temple is depended on tithing..even baptism for the dead. It is part of any requirement of any kind of advancement in the church. One has every right to know where the money is going...especially if they give up rent/house monies for it. If you give to missionary funds..then how many missionaries..how is the conversion going..you have a right to know!
smac97 Posted April 10, 2016 Posted April 10, 2016 19 minutes ago, CountryBoy said: Quote Most people with training in the law know answers are "elicited," not "solicited." I pick my words for a reason.... \I did not realize you would need explanations Solicit: "ask for or try to obtain (something) from someone" Elicit: "evoke or draw out (a response, answer, or fact) from someone in reaction to one's own actions or questions" It appears that a person can both "solicit" an answer and "elicit" an answer. Am I missing something? Thanks, -Smac 2
DBMormon Posted April 10, 2016 Author Posted April 10, 2016 2 minutes ago, smac97 said: I don't buy this. First, it makes no kind of sense to present these "questions" in a forum where we all know they have zero chance of being answered by "the Church." Second, these "questions" are not presented in good faith. They are loaded. They are compound. They are vague. The are asked-and-answered. They are presented as a pretext for publishing a laundry list of complaints and criticisms. Third, claiming in this board that you "need to hear the Church's answer to these questions" only further solidifies my assessment. You are posturing here. You are not speaking to "the Church" and you know it. Your "questions" are not directed to "the Church" and you know it. Your "questions" are posed for reasons other than seeking answers. They are not presented in good faith. Again, you sound like a schoolyard bully with this nonsense. And if gauging the Church's maturity and willingness were really your objective, you would not be posting these questions on this board. No reasonable person would do so with the expectation that the Brethren are monitoring this particular board, ready to hop to as soon as DB Mormon issues a laundry list of criticisms and complaints (to which, by your own admission, you already know the answers). Gimme a break. You are breaking my plausibility meter with this silliness. So these are not questions geared toward the acquisition of information. Yes, I get that. You've loaded the deck here. There is no good faith to these questions. Not a speck. Not a whit. This is all just posturing. Pretext. You are now on record. You have presented these questions because you presume to pass judgment on The Church of Jesus Christ. These questions are a test. Of the Church. By you. And now that you've posted them on this board, you expect "the Church" to locate them and answer them. And if it doesn't, then the Church is not "mature." Not "willing." Not worthy of your "trust." Not a "safe space." I am reminded of this quote by Joseph Smith: In the spirit of this quote, I will leave it to each of us to determine for ourselves the application of it to our lives and conduct. Thanks, -Smac you don't have to buy it. You don't have to even be nice. You can judge me, you can judge my questions. It is my truth and it is the ground I stand on. I ask for your respect but you need not give it. But regardless it doesn't unsteady the ground I hold. 3
UtahTexan Posted April 10, 2016 Posted April 10, 2016 11 minutes ago, Jeanne said: This is true. But when I reactivated years earlier, I remember asking the Bishop "am I paying enough"? Sometimes when I post here I write like i am still a member. I don't mean to but a part of me will always be Mormon. We have all done our share in contributions to the church in one area or another. Some is voluntary..like the Sunday School Teacher who pays out of her own pocket to create something special for class..but calling tithing voluntary doesn't seem right. The conditions by which you can do any ordinance in the Temple is depended on tithing..even baptism for the dead. It is part of any requirement of any kind of advancement in the church. One has every right to know where the money is going...especially if they give up rent/house monies for it. If you give to missionary funds..then how many missionaries..how is the conversion going..you have a right to know! Do I? God Commanded me to tithe...He did not say I would be told anything about the money...... 1
Jeanne Posted April 10, 2016 Posted April 10, 2016 Smac and CountryBoy..are your guys representing LDS people?? 1
Jeanne Posted April 10, 2016 Posted April 10, 2016 4 minutes ago, CountryBoy said: Do I? God Commanded me to tithe...He did not say I would be told anything about the money...... He probably rightly presumed his leaders would let them know.
Duncan Posted April 10, 2016 Posted April 10, 2016 I don't know if this adds anything but I am currently reading online a document written by Elder Matthias F. Cowley, formerly of the Twelve and he is talking about his memories with Pres. Woodruff and Elder Cowley says the following, "I have asked him questions on Church doctrine and history. If he was not able to answer some of them, he never tried to frame an answer he simply said, "I don't know, I cannot answer that" Reminiscences, 1925. MS 157 2
UtahTexan Posted April 10, 2016 Posted April 10, 2016 3 minutes ago, Jeanne said: He probably rightly presumed his leaders would let them know. So now you claim to know what was in Heavenly Father's Mind? Could you provide evidence, please, to what you think probably was expected?
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