JulieM Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 2 hours ago, cdowis said: OK, so please don't be shy -->> YOU tell us the answer. Where exactly are they getting the inerrant interpretation of the Bible. I would very much like to meet this individual. Is the Pope aware of this individual -- how about Billy Graham. Why is this person hiding???? Christians desperately need this person's help in resolving their disagreements on how to interpret the Bible. We want to draw upon your direct experience, since, in my 30 years in apologetics, they were unwilling to share this information with me. What an odd post!!? Who are "they" or "this person" or "individual" you are speaking of? Someone on this forum?
Okrahomer Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 10 minutes ago, JulieM said: What an odd post!!? Who are "they" or "this person" or "individual" you are speaking of? Someone on this forum? The "they" is a reference Teancum's "evangelical who really knows their stuff."
cdowis Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Let's put each other into ignore mode. I don't want to disturb and annoy you. Bye.
VideoGameJunkie Posted March 26, 2016 Author Posted March 26, 2016 This is a long article but this LDS man goes into detail about why he feels monogamy is the order of heaven and how polygamy isn't coming back. http://www.eugeneengland.org/on-fidelity-polygamy-and-celestial-marriage
why me Posted March 26, 2016 Posted March 26, 2016 (edited) On 7.3.2016 at 10:55 PM, Alan said: There was no angel threat. The story is ridiculous. However, it is also in the bible. The drawn sword is mentioned in the bible. The only thing that Joseph Smith could be accused of is pinching a story line for his own purposes. But he certainly did not come up with it himself. King James Bible 1 Chronicles 21:16 And David lifted up his eyes, and saw the angel of the LORD stand between the earth and the heaven, having a drawn sword in his hand stretched out over Jerusalem. Then David and the elders of Israel, who were clothed in sackcloth, fell upon their faces. Numbers 22:23 And the donkey saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and the *** turned aside out of the way, and went into the field: and Balaam smote the donkey, to turn her into the way. Genesis 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. Edited March 26, 2016 by why me 1
why me Posted March 26, 2016 Posted March 26, 2016 (edited) On 23.3.2016 at 8:47 PM, VideoGameJunkie said: The biggest consequence with polygamy would be that there wouldn't be enough women to go around for all the men who want wives. That's a problem many young men face in the FLDS and have to result to marrying their cousins. To my understanding, polygamy was a select doctrine. Not everyone was called to have more than one wife. I don't believe that it was a doctrine that gave men and women the permission to practice polygamy at will. But I could be wrong. Edited March 26, 2016 by why me
JLHPROF Posted March 26, 2016 Posted March 26, 2016 (edited) 8 hours ago, why me said: To my understanding, polygamy was a select doctrine. Not everyone was called to have more than one wife. I don't believe that it was a doctrine that gave men and women the permission to practice polygamy at will. But I could be wrong. D&C 132 1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines— 2 Behold, and lo, I am the Lord thy God, and will answer thee as touching this matter. 3 Therefore, prepare thy heart to receive and obey the instructions which I am about to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same. Edited March 26, 2016 by JLHPROF
Calm Posted March 27, 2016 Posted March 27, 2016 On March 26, 28 Heisei at 10:09 PM, VideoGameJunkie said: This is a long article but this LDS man goes into detail about why he feels monogamy is the order of heaven and how polygamy isn't coming back. http://www.eugeneengland.org/on-fidelity-polygamy-and-celestial-marriage Technically it is why he "felt": https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_England
why me Posted March 27, 2016 Posted March 27, 2016 22 hours ago, JLHPROF said: D&C 132 1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines— 2 Behold, and lo, I am the Lord thy God, and will answer thee as touching this matter. 3 Therefore, prepare thy heart to receive and obey the instructions which I am about to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same. Thanks for the reference. Good to know that I was correct. Also, people need to understand that when joseph was a polygamist, other saints were too. He was not alone in having plural wives.
rodheadlee Posted March 27, 2016 Posted March 27, 2016 On 3/23/2016 at 3:54 PM, Teancum said: No me. I trust no Prophets. Dead or living. Self proclaimed prophets should be held in suspect. Why would God expect us to trust so few that give conflicting messages? Just talk to us all directly and not through some metaphysical approach. Brother Teancum this is exactly why we are supposed to be prophets ourselves. We are to seek out the truth through the Holy Spirit. God has talked to me, a lowly inactive Jack Mormon, I'm sure He will talk to you. Actual spoken words, not just a burning bosom.
Tacenda Posted March 27, 2016 Posted March 27, 2016 1 hour ago, why me said: Thanks for the reference. Good to know that I was correct. Also, people need to understand that when joseph was a polygamist, other saints were too. He was not alone in having plural wives. He was in the beginning among the saints. He started it. 1
why me Posted March 27, 2016 Posted March 27, 2016 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Tacenda said: He was in the beginning among the saints. He started it. Of course Joseph started it. But he also confided with other saints about the doctrine. It wasn't such a secret has portrayed by the critics. Hyrum was also a polygamist even though he was against it in the beginning. So this wasn't joseph just sneaking around....it was a doctrine that he shared with the church leaders at the time. Edited March 27, 2016 by why me
ALarson Posted March 27, 2016 Posted March 27, 2016 (edited) 22 minutes ago, why me said: Of course Joseph started it. But he also confided with other saints about the doctrine. It wasn't such a secret has portrayed by the critics. Hyrum was also a polygamist even though he was against it in the beginning. So this wasn't joseph just sneaking around....it was a doctrine that he shared with the church leaders at the time. Joseph shared it with some church leaders. There was a lot of secrecy involved with the polygamy that was lived in Nauvoo (and before Nauvoo for Joseph). We really have very few contemporary writings by those who lived it (most especially from the women). Edited March 27, 2016 by ALarson 1
VideoGameJunkie Posted March 27, 2016 Author Posted March 27, 2016 (edited) If it was a commandment from God why did only a small group of Saints live it or know about it in Nauvoo? Edited March 27, 2016 by VideoGameJunkie
why me Posted March 27, 2016 Posted March 27, 2016 2 hours ago, ALarson said: Joseph shared it with some church leaders. There was a lot of secrecy involved with the polygamy that was lived in Nauvoo (and before Nauvoo for Joseph). We really have very few contemporary writings by those who lived it (most especially from the women). I would think that this would be the case. If word got out that the saints were engaging in polygamy, Nauvoo would have been attacked by the nonmember mobs in the neighboring communities. Secrecy was necessay for survival. After Joseph was murdered and the saints began their trek west, the practice was much more open. But even in Utah, the federal army was ready to teach the mormons a lesson if they did not change their ways. 1
why me Posted March 27, 2016 Posted March 27, 2016 1 hour ago, VideoGameJunkie said: If it was a commandment from God why did only a small group of Saints live it or know about it in Nauvoo? The doctrine was for a select few. It was never for everyone, especially at joseph's time. https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-and-families-in-early-utah?lang=eng http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_polygamy/Prevalence_of_in_Utah
VideoGameJunkie Posted March 27, 2016 Author Posted March 27, 2016 17 minutes ago, why me said: The doctrine was for a select few. It was never for everyone, especially at joseph's time. https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-and-families-in-early-utah?lang=eng http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_polygamy/Prevalence_of_in_Utah If it was an important and eternal doctrine it should be for all Saints and not just a few. Can you think of any other commandment that's only for a very small few saints?
why me Posted March 27, 2016 Posted March 27, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, VideoGameJunkie said: If it was an important and eternal doctrine it should be for all Saints and not just a few. Can you think of any other commandment that's only for a very small few saints? I do think that god gives different commandments to different people. Some saints were commanded to practice polygamy, others weren't. Commandment comes from the verb, to command. It is not the ten commandments. Back in those days, members were commanded to go to England etc. Others were commandment to serve a mission in the east. Such is the way it was. Edited March 27, 2016 by why me 1
VideoGameJunkie Posted March 27, 2016 Author Posted March 27, 2016 My largest question on the issue of polygamy that I wish someone could at least hint at to answer is if polygamy is ever coming back. Like is it coming back during the Millennium or afterlife. I heard some people believe this but I'd like to know what sources say that it would come back and why people would think that.
Jeanne Posted March 27, 2016 Posted March 27, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, ALarson said: Joseph shared it with some church leaders. There was a lot of secrecy involved with the polygamy that was lived in Nauvoo (and before Nauvoo for Joseph). We really have very few contemporary writings by those who lived it (most especially from the women). I would love to have been a fly in the room in Relief Society back then. Emma as President knowing or not knowing of some of the marriages there I am thinking that this society was anything but relief Edited March 27, 2016 by Jeanne
ALarson Posted March 28, 2016 Posted March 28, 2016 15 hours ago, Jeanne said: I would love to have been a fly in the room in Relief Society back then. Emma as President knowing or not knowing of some of the marriages there I am thinking that this society was anything but relief If I remember correctly, Emma asked some of the sisters to spy on Joseph for her and ironically a few of these sisters were already Joseph's wives (unbeknownst to her). (I'd need to look this up again for any names or details...)
Jeanne Posted March 28, 2016 Posted March 28, 2016 1 hour ago, ALarson said: If I remember correctly, Emma asked some of the sisters to spy on Joseph for her and ironically a few of these sisters were already Joseph's wives (unbeknownst to her). (I'd need to look this up again for any names or details...) I read that too..this is why I find it so deceiving and hurtful. 1
USU78 Posted March 28, 2016 Posted March 28, 2016 5 minutes ago, Jeanne said: I read that too..this is why I find it so deceiving and hurtful. So your position is, as was Emma's, at least for a time, that she could rightly renege on her commitment to living the Principle? And she could and ought to be permitted to decide for Joseph whether or not he also should renege?
Tacenda Posted March 28, 2016 Posted March 28, 2016 15 minutes ago, USU78 said: So your position is, as was Emma's, at least for a time, that she could rightly renege on her commitment to living the Principle? And she could and ought to be permitted to decide for Joseph whether or not he also should renege? Why not? Or divorce him, but in her day, divorce was extremely frowned upon.
VideoGameJunkie Posted March 28, 2016 Author Posted March 28, 2016 D&C 132 says Emma would be destroyed if she didn't accept her husbands polygamy.
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