VideoGameJunkie Posted February 21, 2016 Posted February 21, 2016 This has been a question that has been on my mind before. We were all in heaven with God, then Lucifer rebels against God and becomes Satan. Who could have possibly influenced him to act this way in those circumstances when it seemed like he was a perfectly good angel before? Is it possible since prophets have taught that Heavenly Father was once a man, meaning there are Father's to Heavenly Father and with that there could be other Satans that could have influenced Lucifer's spirit? Or was he just really that bad that he did everything on his own, with no outside influence?
Gillebre Posted February 21, 2016 Posted February 21, 2016 I think the principle of line upon line applies here. It works both ways. Darkness takes over slowly, gradually, just as light builds in a soul little by little. I don't think Lucifer fell in short time, but gradually allowed himself to be consumed by selfishness. 3
Blah Posted February 21, 2016 Posted February 21, 2016 Orson Pratt suggested that Lucifer followed the example of other Devils that had come before (I'm on my phone and can't seem to cut and paste for some reason, but it's in Journal of Discourses 21:287). 2
Glenn101 Posted February 21, 2016 Posted February 21, 2016 11 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: This has been a question that has been on my mind before. We were all in heaven with God, then Lucifer rebels against God and becomes Satan. Who could have possibly influenced him to act this way in those circumstances when it seemed like he was a perfectly good angel before? Is it possible since prophets have taught that Heavenly Father was once a man, meaning there are Father's to Heavenly Father and with that there could be other Satans that could have influenced Lucifer's spirit? Or was he just really that bad that he did everything on his own, with no outside influence? You are asking a question that is impossible to answer with the amount of knowledge that we do not have at this point in time. All we can actually entertain is that Lucifer was one of the greatest lights in the preexistence, maybe second only to Christ Himself. What pr who influenced him to take the path of self-destruction not known to us, but it is evident that neurosis is not just a mortal problem. A psychologist friend of mine once gave me a definition of a neurotic that is a bit different from the dictionary definition. He sais that a neurotic is a nob-stupid person who does stupid things. Glenn 1
Bobbieaware Posted February 21, 2016 Posted February 21, 2016 12 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: This has been a question that has been on my mind before. We were all in heaven with God, then Lucifer rebels against God and becomes Satan. Who could have possibly influenced him to act this way in those circumstances when it seemed like he was a perfectly good angel before? Is it possible since prophets have taught that Heavenly Father was once a man, meaning there are Father's to Heavenly Father and with that there could be other Satans that could have influenced Lucifer's spirit? Or was he just really that bad that he did everything on his own, with no outside influence? We were free agents when we lived as spirits in the preexistence, and in order for us to exist as free agents we had to be wrought upon by spiritual forces that temped us to choose between good and evil. There is no other way for men to be free other than to have to make moral choices for good or ill. Therefore, just as Satan was allowed to tempt Adam and Eve in Eden, and just as we are tempted by malevolent spiritual forces here in mortality, in the pre-earth life there had to me some kind of spiritual influence that worked in opposition to God in order for us to be free and capable of achieving spiritual growth. The specifics of exactly how this happened are not as important as the basic immutable principle of there always having to be opposition in all things. 1
Teancum Posted February 21, 2016 Posted February 21, 2016 14 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: This has been a question that has been on my mind before. We were all in heaven with God, then Lucifer rebels against God and becomes Satan. Who could have possibly influenced him to act this way in those circumstances when it seemed like he was a perfectly good angel before? Is it possible since prophets have taught that Heavenly Father was once a man, meaning there are Father's to Heavenly Father and with that there could be other Satans that could have influenced Lucifer's spirit? Or was he just really that bad that he did everything on his own, with no outside influence? Why did Melkor rebel against Iluvatar? 2
carbon dioxide Posted February 21, 2016 Posted February 21, 2016 They say that behind every good or successful man is a woman. So would not the opposite be true. Behind every evil man there is a woman? Perhaps it was his girlfriend.
PeterPear Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/war-in-heaven.p1?lang=eng&letter=w I submit it was fear of failure; fear being the opposite of faith. "The war broke out because one-third of the spirits refused to accept the appointment of Jesus Christ as the Savior. Such a refusal was a rebellion against the Father’s plan of redemption. It was evident that if given agency, some persons would fall short of complete salvation; Lucifer and his followers wanted salvation to come automatically to all who passed through mortality, without regard to individual preference, agency, or voluntary dedication." Also pride. Lucifer claimed he could save us all, which was a lie, because he had not the power to do so. Thus Lucifer now called Satan, (because Lucifer implies someone with light or "luz") was a liar from the beginning. D&C 93:25 1
rodheadlee Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 21 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: This has been a question that has been on my mind before. We were all in heaven with God, then Lucifer rebels against God and becomes Satan. Who could have possibly influenced him to act this way in those circumstances when it seemed like he was a perfectly good angel before? Is it possible since prophets have taught that Heavenly Father was once a man, meaning there are Father's to Heavenly Father and with that there could be other Satans that could have influenced Lucifer's spirit? Or was he just really that bad that he did everything on his own, with no outside influence? Baltar.
The Nehor Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 9 hours ago, Teancum said: Why did Melkor rebel against Iluvatar? He coveted the Secret Fire that Iluvatar used to create life independent of himself and spent ages searching the Dark to find it not realizing that it dwelt within Iluvatar. Then when he fell to Earth he sought to create life by perverting it and creating orcs from elves, dragons from reptiles, trolls from ents, and the like. He found though that as he exerted his will and put his power into other beings he weakened himself and was eventually overthrown in this weakness. 2
Gray Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 On 2/21/2016 at 1:16 AM, VideoGameJunkie said: This has been a question that has been on my mind before. We were all in heaven with God, then Lucifer rebels against God and becomes Satan. Who could have possibly influenced him to act this way in those circumstances when it seemed like he was a perfectly good angel before? Is it possible since prophets have taught that Heavenly Father was once a man, meaning there are Father's to Heavenly Father and with that there could be other Satans that could have influenced Lucifer's spirit? Or was he just really that bad that he did everything on his own, with no outside influence? Another, older version of Satan. It's Satans, all the way down. 4
Mars Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 2 hours ago, Gray said: Another, older version of Satan. It's Satans, all the way down. I laughed my head off
mfbukowski Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 (edited) If you bear testimony of the spirit, you invite the spirit If you bear testimony of Satan you invite.... Oh nevermind. Opposition is the law of the universe. Yin and yang and all that. If good exists, bad exists. If you believe in personified good you must believe in personified evil One defines the other. It's how our heads work. The existence of X implies that there is a non-X for X to even be. It must be distinguished from all non-X's to even BE an "X". There is no ground without a figure. One dot on a blank page makes a statement. Put it up in an art gallery, and you will have arguments and a thread on a forum. Edited February 22, 2016 by mfbukowski
Analytics Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 On 2/21/2016 at 1:16 AM, VideoGameJunkie said: This has been a question that has been on my mind before. We were all in heaven with God, then Lucifer rebels against God and becomes Satan. Who could have possibly influenced him to act this way in those circumstances when it seemed like he was a perfectly good angel before? I admit it; it was me.
Ahab Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 On 2/21/2016 at 11:16 PM, VideoGameJunkie said: This has been a question that has been on my mind before. We were all in heaven with God, then Lucifer rebels against God and becomes Satan. Who could have possibly influenced him to act this way in those circumstances when it seemed like he was a perfectly good angel before? Is it possible since prophets have taught that Heavenly Father was once a man, meaning there are Father's to Heavenly Father and with that there could be other Satans that could have influenced Lucifer's spirit? Or was he just really that bad that he did everything on his own, with no outside influence? One could say our Father influenced him by suggesting something that Lucifer didn't agree with and then when Lucifer just stuck with his own idea that he liked better our Father's influence kicked in again to get Lucifer booted out of our Father's kingdom. Opposites don't always attract.
VideoGameJunkie Posted February 23, 2016 Author Posted February 23, 2016 18 minutes ago, will227457 said: ................. Thoughtful post.
Freedom Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 I have not been influenced by others to make bad choices for a very long time. I make them all on my own. We can be certainly influenced to do good or evil, but influence has never been a necessary contributing factor. We are autonomous free thinking beings who can make choices on our own.
Ahab Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 9 minutes ago, Freedom said: I have not been influenced by others to make bad choices for a very long time. I make them all on my own. We can be certainly influenced to do good or evil, but influence has never been a necessary contributing factor. We are autonomous free thinking beings who can make choices on our own. I think some people just have a mistaken impression that Lucifer was the only one to rebel, or that he was or is some kind of ringleader. He was and is only one of many who rebelled against our Father's plan, and many acted and still act the way that he did and still does. 1
Maedros Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 I'm inclined to agree with Orson Pratt on this; he (the devil) probably spent too much time learning of the 'other worlds' and from that knowledge sparked the desire as in the case of Melkor to seek power for himself and by-and-by he became the devil.
Alan Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 On 22/02/2016 at 1:22 AM, PeterPear said: https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/war-in-heaven.p1?lang=eng&letter=w I submit it was fear of failure; fear being the opposite of faith. "The war broke out because one-third of the spirits refused to accept the appointment of Jesus Christ as the Savior. Such a refusal was a rebellion against the Father’s plan of redemption. It was evident that if given agency, some persons would fall short of complete salvation; Lucifer and his followers wanted salvation to come automatically to all who passed through mortality, without regard to individual preference, agency, or voluntary dedication." Also pride. Lucifer claimed he could save us all, which was a lie, because he had not the power to do so. Thus Lucifer now called Satan, (because Lucifer implies someone with light or "luz") was a liar from the beginning. D&C 93:25 I don't agree with this. We already had agency (otherwise there could have been no rebellion), and we were provided with a saviour to save us, so no one would be lost. Salvation does come to all who pass through mortality. The only exception are the sons of perdition.... for which one needs a devil to follow. So the reasoning is circular. I think we look at this too simplistically. We are told that there were some who accepted the plan and came to earth (us), and some who didn't accept the plan (Lucifer et al) but they ended up here too, albeit without a mortal body. I believe there was a third group who just didn't want to leave their heavenly home. They stayed put and are still there to this day. After all, what kind of agency offers only two options, both of which were perhaps not entirely appealing. I also think we may be missing something in the fact that this is a telestial world. How did we end up here? What had we done that was so bad that we were sent to a telestial world rather than somewhere else? Lucifer and his followers were thrust down to hell and yet they are here. Is this hell?
CA Steve Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 I am also curious how in the presence of God the father fully 1/3 of all his children made a fully informed decision to reject his plan knowing it would mean eternal punishment? 1
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