theplains Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 In another thread, Robert F. Smith said, "it doesn't really matter all that much whether the President is a young man in his twenties (as with Joseph Smith), or a much older man. God has always chosen his prophets based on other considerations than age". According to what I read on Wikipedia: "In the LDS Church, when a president of the church dies, the First Presidency is dissolved and the members of the First Presidency who were formerly members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles rejoin it. The Quorum of the Twelve—which may number greater than twelve with the returning members from the First Presidency—then becomes the presiding council of the church, with the senior apostle as its president. The President of the Quorum of the Twelve becomes the highest-ranking official in the church, and has always become the next church president. However, this appointment is only made official when the Quorum of the Twelve meets and selects the next president of the church." Why does this make it appear that age is the sole consideration? Thanks,Jim
Popular Post jkwilliams Posted October 17, 2015 Popular Post Posted October 17, 2015 Seniority is not the same thing as age. 7
SmileyMcGee Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 (edited) delete Edited October 17, 2015 by SmileyMcGee
Stargazer Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 afaik, there is nothing I've heard that forbids the President of the Q12 from selecting someone else to be the new President. If the Lord were to inspire him to do so, then I'm sure this would be what he did.
JLHPROF Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 Why does this make it appear that age is the sole consideration? Try length of time in the quorum, not age.Go figure that experience would be a better qualifier than age. 3
Storm Rider Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 In another thread, Robert F. Smith said, "it doesn't really matter all that much whether the President is a young man in his twenties (as with Joseph Smith), or a much older man. God has always chosen his prophets based on other considerations than age". According to what I read on Wikipedia: "In the LDS Church, when a president of the church dies, the First Presidency is dissolved and the members of the First Presidency who were formerly members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles rejoin it. The Quorum of the Twelve—which may number greater than twelve with the returning members from the First Presidency—then becomes the presiding council of the church, with the senior apostle as its president. The President of the Quorum of the Twelve becomes the highest-ranking official in the church, and has always become the next church president. However, this appointment is only made official when the Quorum of the Twelve meets and selects the next president of the church." Why does this make it appear that age is the sole consideration? Thanks,Jim Hello Jim, This has always been a good question to me. As I have thought about it the answer that worked for me hinges on perspective. If I have faith that God is calling each apostle then the timing of their call is important in more ways than one. As they serve in their calling they may eventually become the senior apostle and be put in the position of God's functioning prophet. This service as President of the Church is all contingent upon when he is called and the length of time each preceding apostle remains alive. If God wants a man to serve as the prophet he certainly can arrange that to occur. One small correction, it has not "always" been so as the Wiki article states. Only in these last days was this method used to our knowledge. I am not aware that the first apostles had this system and it wasn't used after Joseph was killed.
oremites Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 Hello Jim, This has always been a good question to me. As I have thought about it the answer that worked for me hinges on perspective. If I have faith that God is calling each apostle then the timing of their call is important in more ways than one. As they serve in their calling they may eventually become the senior apostle and be put in the position of God's functioning prophet. This service as President of the Church is all contingent upon when he is called and the length of time each preceding apostle remains alive. If God wants a man to serve as the prophet he certainly can arrange that to occur. One small correction, it has not "always" been so as the Wiki article states. Only in these last days was this method used to our knowledge. I am not aware that the first apostles had this system and it wasn't used after Joseph was killed. Another thing to consider is the idea that, most of the time, it doesn't matter which specific individual is prophet. Which of the Apostles do you think wouldn't be suitable as President of the Church? As long as they're committed to serving the Lord, He can work with any of them. 1
Teancum Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 Hello Jim, This has always been a good question to me. As I have thought about it the answer that worked for me hinges on perspective. If I have faith that God is calling each apostle then the timing of their call is important in more ways than one. As they serve in their calling they may eventually become the senior apostle and be put in the position of God's functioning prophet. This service as President of the Church is all contingent upon when he is called and the length of time each preceding apostle remains alive. If God wants a man to serve as the prophet he certainly can arrange that to occur. One small correction, it has not "always" been so as the Wiki article states. Only in these last days was this method used to our knowledge. I am not aware that the first apostles had this system and it wasn't used after Joseph was killed.. And it really did not become the absolute method until I believe Lorenzo Snow, though it happened that way every time before him they did consider to do it differently.
carbon dioxide Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 If one is called to be an apostle, they are qualified to be the president of the Church. Since you have a bunch of people who are pretty much all equally qualified, it seems the best and easiest course of action is to use seniority as the determining factor who is next in line. There is not campaigning and the members already know who is next in line. It is a system that works well. I have not seen much of a problem in the membership of the church over it.
Stargazer Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 If one is called to be an apostle, they are qualified to be the president of the Church. Since you have a bunch of people who are pretty much all equally qualified, it seems the best and easiest course of action is to use seniority as the determining factor who is next in line. There is not campaigning and the members already know who is next in line. It is a system that works well. I have not seen much of a problem in the membership of the church over it. Yep, I for one like it. No mysteries! No watching for white or black smoke from the Temple's chimney. Oh, wait, does the Temple even have a chimney?
cinepro Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Try length of time in the quorum, not age.Go figure that experience would be a better qualifier than age. But if two apostles are ordained on the same day, the older one gets ordained first (and thus, seniority).
cinepro Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 afaik, there is nothing I've heard that forbids the President of the Q12 from selecting someone else to be the new President. If the Lord were to inspire him to do so, then I'm sure this would be what he did. Once you get beyond the purely theoretical level (akin to saying there is nothing that forbids the Lord from calling a woman as the next Prophet), it's apparent that there is no practical mechanism for someone other than the President of the Q12 to be called.
Stormin' Mormon Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 But if two apostles are ordained on the same day, the older one gets ordained first (and thus, seniority). Not always. Stevenson is younger than Renlund, but Stevenson was given seniority over Renlund in the Quorum of the Twelve. (probably based on his longer term of service as a General Authority). 1
Stargazer Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 Once you get beyond the purely theoretical level (akin to saying there is nothing that forbids the Lord from calling a woman as the next Prophet), it's apparent that there is no practical mechanism for someone other than the President of the Q12 to be called. What is a "practical mechanism"? And what distinguishes practice from theory? Theory became practice when Brigham Young was sustained as the President of the Church, but no theory that I am aware of forbids the night watchman at the Salt Lake Temple being called to be the new President of the Church if the Quorum of the Twelve decides that that is whom the Lord wants to preside over His church.
cinepro Posted October 21, 2015 Posted October 21, 2015 Not always. Stevenson is younger than Renlund, but Stevenson was given seniority over Renlund in the Quorum of the Twelve. (probably based on his longer term of service as a General Authority). Well I'll be danged.
Avatar4321 Posted October 21, 2015 Posted October 21, 2015 Not always. Stevenson is younger than Renlund, but Stevenson was given seniority over Renlund in the Quorum of the Twelve. (probably based on his longer term of service as a General Authority).Perhaps it was because Elder Stevenson was called first.After all, we weren't expecting a third opening before conference. It's quite possible the other two calls happened before anyone knew thereabouts be a third.
Stormin' Mormon Posted October 21, 2015 Posted October 21, 2015 Perhaps it was because Elder Stevenson was called first.After all, we weren't expecting a third opening before conference. It's quite possible the other two calls happened before anyone knew thereabouts be a third. Possible, but Elder Stevenson says he received the call just after 9:00 am, on September 29, the Tuesday morning before conference (see Elder Stevenson's Sunday morning conference address). Richard G. Scott had passed away 7 days before. At that point, then, Church leadership knew they had three spots to fill. 1
cinepro Posted October 21, 2015 Posted October 21, 2015 What is a "practical mechanism"? And what distinguishes practice from theory? Theory became practice when Brigham Young was sustained as the President of the Church, but no theory that I am aware of forbids the night watchman at the Salt Lake Temple being called to be the new President of the Church if the Quorum of the Twelve decides that that is whom the Lord wants to preside over His church. That's just it though. At no point (that I know of) do the Q12 stop and ask "Who does the Lord want to be the next Prophet?" Sure, there is a theoretical possibility for an angel to appear to them and say "Hey, God wants the nightwatchman at the Salt Lake Temple to be the Prophet instead of President Nelson", but other than that, it just isn't going to happen. And I'm pretty sure in the current scheme of things, if God wanted Bill the Nightwatchman to become Prophet in 2015 he would have called him as an apostle so he could get a little experience. The idea that a non-apostle could be the chosen prophet is something you are more likely to hear from someone on the verge of apostasy than an LDS general authority (not you specifically, just in general).
Scott Lloyd Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 Not always. Stevenson is younger than Renlund, but Stevenson was given seniority over Renlund in the Quorum of the Twelve. (probably based on his longer term of service as a General Authority). It's based on the order in which they are called. It has nothing to do with chronological age or length of service in other Church callings.
Avatar4321 Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 Possible, but Elder Stevenson says he received the call just after 9:00 am, on September 29, the Tuesday morning before conference (see Elder Stevenson's Sunday morning conference address). Richard G. Scott had passed away 7 days before. At that point, then, Church leadership knew they had three spots to fill.That doesn't mean the Lord didn't reveal to president monson who was called to that slot prior to elder Scott passing
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