Ahab Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) But it's never an easy choice. It's hard to choose to believe in something that isn't actually true, no matter how hard you want to believe.You can just skip the step where you come to a belief that something isn't actually true, though, continuing to believe whatever you already believe before you get to that step.For example, if you ever get to the point where you believe the Book of Mormon is scripture, based on whatever experience you have which leads you to that belief, then you can continue to believe that without ever getting to a point where you don't believe it is true. No need to change course. No need to doubt or reevaluate your experience that led to your belief that the Book of Mormon is scripture. And the same principle can work for any other belief you can have at any point in your life.It even works on something believe is not true too, say for example if you ever get to a point in your life where you believe the Book of Mormon is NOT scripture, based on whatever experience you have that leads you to that belief. You can continue to believe that without ever flip flopping, just sticking to your belief that it is not true without ever changing your mind. Why would you ever believe that your beliefs are wrong?Just be consistent and continue to believe whatever you believe once you figure out what you would rather believe considering all of the things you can choose to believe. Edited October 5, 2015 by Ahab
pogi Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Indeed. The question is, how does one arrive at that belief? See post 72. Lets start with the basic foundation. Are you at a point in your life where you can desire to believe or even hope in the word?
Ahab Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Indeed. The question is, how does one arrive at that belief?The same way one arrives at ANY belief, by "choosing to believe" whatever one believes.
jkwilliams Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 You can just skip the step where you come to a belief that something isn't actually true, though, continuing to believe whatever you already believe before you get to that step. For example, if you ever get to the point where you believe the Book of Mormon is scripture, based on whatever experience you have which leads you to that belief, then you can continue to believe that without ever getting to a point where you don't believe it is true. No need to change course. No need to doubt or reevaluate your experience that led to your belief that the Book of Mormon is scripture. And the same principle can work for any other belief you can have at any point in your life. It even works on something believe is not true too, say for example if you ever get to a point in your life where you believe the Book of Mormon is NOT scripture, based on whatever experience you have that leads you to that belief. You can continue to believe that without ever flip flopping, just sticking to your belief that it is not true without ever changing your mind. Why would you ever believe that your beliefs are wrong? Just be consistent and continue to believe whatever you believe once you figure out what you would rather believe considering all of the things you can choose to believe. I don't know about you, but I think it's valuable to reevaluate one's beliefs, doubting one's doubts, as it were. It seems more than a little egocentric and capricious to choose what one would rather believe than what one ought to believe.
jkwilliams Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 See post 72. Lets start with the basic foundation. Are you at a point in your life where you can desire to believe or even hope in the word? I'm talking about how people arrive at conclusions, not about me in particular.
pogi Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 I'm talking about how people arrive at conclusions, not about me in particular. Generalizations like that cannot be made. Each case must be considered on an individual basis.
jkwilliams Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Generalizations like that cannot be made. Each case must be considered on an individual basis. That's exactly what I said.
Gray Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Who or what is dictating your choices? If you have more than one option you have a choice. That you may have strong incentives to choose one or the other is irrelevant. You have a choice, but the option to believe in say, orthodox Mormonism or Evangelical Christianity may not be a choice for you, depending on a number of internal factors.
pogi Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 That's exactly what I said. I will say this, while there may be a plethora of reasons why one chooses not to believe, there is only one way to receive faith and only one reason why it endures: Obedience to the principles upon which the blessing is predicated.
Ahab Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 I don't know about you, but I think it's valuable to reevaluate one's beliefs, doubting one's doubts, as it were. It seems more than a little egocentric and capricious to choose what one would rather believe than what one ought to believe.Rather. Ought. Same difference to me.And I think the time for evaluating is before one decides whether or not to believe, not being sure which way to go until the decision is made to believe or to not believe.
Teancum Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Agreed and in the end it is choice.No not really. There comes a point where one simply cannot choose to believe something. Based on as much I would love to beleive in Hobbits and Elves and that Gandalf is a real being I just can't bring myself to do so.
The Nehor Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 No not really. There comes a point where one simply cannot choose to believe something. Based on as much I would love to beleive in Hobbits and Elves and that Gandalf is a real being I just can't bring myself to do so.Try harder.
jkwilliams Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Rather. Ought. Same difference to me. And I think the time for evaluating is before one decides whether or not to believe, not being sure which way to go until the decision is made to believe or to not believe. Are you suggesting that, once you decide to believe something, you should never reconsider that decision?
Buckeye Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) No not really. There comes a point where one simply cannot choose to believe something. Based on as much I would love to beleive in Hobbits and Elves and that Gandalf is a real being I just can't bring myself to do so. I'm still wondering if my ancestors were wrong to abandon their worship of Baal. Maybe if they hadn't been persuaded by the evidence of that Elijah dude, I'd have a lot more blessings in my life. Try harder. How hard are you trying to believe in Baal? Edited October 5, 2015 by Buckeye
SmileyMcGee Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 No not really. There comes a point where one simply cannot choose to believe something. Based on as much I would love to beleive in Hobbits and Elves and that Gandalf is a real being I just can't bring myself to do so.You just need to give Brother Tolkein a break. Choose to doubt your doubts...[insert any other special pleading catchphrase]
Maestrophil Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 No not really. There comes a point where one simply cannot choose to believe something. Based on as much I would love to beleive in Hobbits and Elves and that Gandalf is a real being I just can't bring myself to do so. Have you ever had a compelling personal experience or witness of the spirit of Hobbits and Elves? Me neither. But I have of the divinity of Jesus Christ and the veracity of the Book of Mormon. Those experiences and promptings, I choose to believe.
SmileyMcGee Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Have you ever had a compelling personal experience or witness of the spirit of Hobbits and Elves? Me neither. But I have of the divinity of Jesus Christ and the veracity of the Book of Mormon. Those experiences and promptings, I choose to believe. If you were raised to believe that Hobbits and elves were real and were responsible for your salvation then you'd probably have plenty of "compelling personal experience."
Scott Lloyd Posted October 5, 2015 Author Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) No not really. There comes a point where one simply cannot choose to believe something. Based on as much I would love to beleive in Hobbits and Elves and that Gandalf is a real being I just can't bring myself to do so.This is a misleading comparison. Purely in terms of emprical, physical evidence, the truthfulness of the restored gospel can be nether definitively proven nor definitively disproven. Ergo, despite your touching, heartfelt testimony that you have reached "a point where [you] simply cannot choose to believe," there is nevertheless space for faith, earnest investigation and petitioning the Almighty for a spiritual witness. Edited October 5, 2015 by Scott Lloyd 1
KevinG Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Once someone knows it all there is no more need for faith. 2
Scott Lloyd Posted October 5, 2015 Author Posted October 5, 2015 Once someone knows it all there is no more need for faith.Ain't it the truth!
Ahab Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Are you suggesting that, once you decide to believe something, you should never reconsider that decision?Not necessarily never, just that it's better to think carefully before deciding whether or not to believe something than to flip flop on your beliefs.
jkwilliams Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Not necessarily never, just that it's better to think carefully before deciding whether or not to believe something than to flip flop on your beliefs.So, deciding through study and prayer that your beliefs were wrong is flip-flopping. That must mean converts to the LDS church are flip-floppers.
Teancum Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Try harder.Heheheh. You can be humorous at times.
Teancum Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Have you ever had a compelling personal experience or witness of the spirit of Hobbits and Elves? Me neither. But I have of the divinity of Jesus Christ and the veracity of the Book of Mormon. Those experiences and promptings, I choose to believe.Actually I love The Lord of the Rings and have had some very moving and deep feelings as I have read the books many times over. Is that the Holy Ghost? I felt as moved by these books in a way similar to feelings I have had about the Book of Mormon.
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