"he Had A True Apostolic Witness Of Christ"

[JAHS]

During Elder Scott's funeral his son said something that caught my attention.

 

"He had a true apostolic witness of Christ as the resurrected Savior. .... And I repeat, He had a "true" (emphasis on true) apostolic witness of Christ as the resurrected Savior."

 

At the 40:30 mark

 

 

Members quite often wonder if any of the General authorities have had a visitation of the Savior. I have always assumed that most of them have not, but a few might have.  The way he said the above seemed to be sending a message that perhaps Elder Scott had such a personal witness; not just a confirmtion from the Holy Ghost.  Maybe I am reading too much into it. 

[boblloyd91]

Yesterday in fast and testimony meeting I heard a member state that while she was at a fireside he stated point blank that he had seen Christ. This may be where faith promoting rumors come from, but it seems this person heard him say that

[Teancum]

During Elder Scott's funeral his son said something that caught my attention.

 

"He had a true apostolic witness of Christ as the resurrected Savior. .... And I repeat, He had a "true" (emphasis on true) apostolic witness of Christ as the resurrected Savior."

 

At the 40:30 mark

 

https://youtu.be/JWQDPk2S22A

 

Members quite often wonder if any of the General authorities have had a visitation of the Savior. I have always assumed that most of them have not, but a few might have.  The way he said the above seemed to be sending a message that perhaps Elder Scott had such a personal witness; not just a confirmtion from the Holy Ghost.  Maybe I am reading too much into it.

Why not just say he saw Jesus then. This is still intentionally vague. And how does his son know for sure?

[JAHS]

Why not just say he saw Jesus then. This is still intentionally vague. And how does his son know for sure?

 

I would assume his father told him about it.  I would suppose that things like that are mentioned in a vague way because of the sacred nature of such a thing and  so that we don't hang our testimonies solely on what a person claims he has experienced, but rather on the witness of the Holy Ghost.

[Jude2]

I heard him say it in a round about way, he said the Spirit constrains me from saying more and then the Stake Pres said he was a friend of Christ. I think he speaks to those who have ears to hear.

[The Nehor]

Yesterday in fast and testimony meeting I heard a member state that while she was at a fireside he stated point blank that he had seen Christ. This may be where faith promoting rumors come from, but it seems this person heard him say that

 

I was in a small meeting where he talked about entering the presence of the Savior and how to accomplish it. Then he told us that it was worth it.

 

Why not just say he saw Jesus then. This is still intentionally vague.

 

So people can doubt and be less damned for it?

[Duncan]

I was in a small meeting where he talked about entering the presence of the Savior and how to accomplish it. Then he told us that it was worth it.

 

 

So people can doubt and be less damned for it?

 

how did you get into a small meeting with him? and don't be skinchy on the details!

[The Nehor]

how did you get into a small meeting with him? and don't be skinchy on the details!

 

By small I mean about a hundred people in attendance. Elder Scott called up my Mission President and asked if he could stop by and teach all his missionaries for 5 or 6 hours. He did. Shortly afterwards the Area President called the Mission President and asked why he never mentioned how much pull he had in Salt Lake.

 

It was possibly the best church meeting of my life so far. Elder Scott was incredibly lively, the meeting was interactive, and he seemed to hold back nothing. He started with how to experience the Holy Ghost and worked his way up to sanctification and describing your light growing brighter and brighter until the perfect day, defined that as the visitation of the Savior, and told us that if we sought it that it would be a glorious experience. There was a lot more but I have never shared more. Need to remember to burn that journal at some point before I die.

[Dgal]

When I first heard that, my thought was he was putting his father's life in spiritual perspective in comparison to the Pope, considering Elder Scott died quietly while the media was going all out to cover the Pope's visit.

[Meadowchik]

By small I mean about a hundred people in attendance. Elder Scott called up my Mission President and asked if he could stop by and teach all his missionaries for 5 or 6 hours. He did. Shortly afterwards the Area President called the Mission President and asked why he never mentioned how much pull he had in Salt Lake.

 

It was possibly the best church meeting of my life so far. Elder Scott was incredibly lively, the meeting was interactive, and he seemed to hold back nothing. He started with how to experience the Holy Ghost and worked his way up to sanctification and describing your light growing brighter and brighter until the perfect day, defined that as the visitation of the Savior, and told us that if we sought it that it would be a glorious experience. There was a lot more but I have never shared more. Need to remember to burn that journal at some point before I die.

 

For a 5 hour meeting, that's saying something! 

 

Don't burn the journal!!!

[jkwilliams]

This kind of speculation seems to come up from time to time. I remember a heated argument among our office missionaries in 1985 over Elder McConkie's remarks at the April conference, less than two weeks before he passed away:

 

And now, as pertaining to this perfect atonement, wrought by the shedding of the blood of God—I testify that it took place in Gethsemane and at Golgotha, and as pertaining to Jesus Christ, I testify that he is the Son of the Living God and was crucified for the sins of the world. He is our Lord, our God, and our King. This I know of myself independent of any other person.

 

I am one of his witnesses, and in a coming day I shall feel the nail marks in his hands and in his feet and shall wet his feet with my tears.

 

But I shall not know any better then than I know now that he is God’s Almighty Son, that he is our Savior and Redeemer, and that salvation comes in and through his atoning blood and in no other way.

 

Some saw this as an acknowledgement that he had seen the Savior in the flesh, whereas others believed he was saying that his testimony was as good as having seen the Savior.

 

With Elder Scott's remarks to Nehor's mission conference (that sounds funny) and his son's comments, it seems like there's room to interpret things either way. We are not privy to Elder Scott's personal experiences, so speculation is probably not helpful.

Edited September 29, 2015 by jkwilliams

[Buckeye]

During Elder Scott's funeral his son said something that caught my attention.

 

"He had a true apostolic witness of Christ as the resurrected Savior. .... And I repeat, He had a "true" (emphasis on true) apostolic witness of Christ as the resurrected Savior."

 

At the 40:30 mark

 

 

Members quite often wonder if any of the General authorities have had a visitation of the Savior. I have always assumed that most of them have not, but a few might have.  The way he said the above seemed to be sending a message that perhaps Elder Scott had such a personal witness; not just a confirmtion from the Holy Ghost.  Maybe I am reading too much into it. 

 

Are you suggesting that a witness from the spirit, as opposed to a personal visitation, is somehow less "true" ? 

[Sevenbak]

I was at the funeral, and when I heard him say that and say it twice to make sure everyone heard it, I was pretty shocked. It seems that the apostles themsves rarely talk of these things but coming from a family member guess is different.

Ironically, Sunday during my home teaching visit, the brother I spoke with used to be in a stake presidency in Boston where Elder Scott would visit a lot. In one of their meetings a similar question was asked of him, and his reply was a scripture reference. D&C 93:1

1 Verily, thus saith the Lord: It shall come to pass that every soul who forsaketh his sins and cometh unto me, and calleth on my name, and obeyeth my voice, and keepeth my commandments, shall see my fface and know that I am;

[Dgal]

I was at the funeral, and when I heard him say that and say it twice to make sure everyone heard it, I was pretty shocked. It seems that the apostles themsves rarely talk of these things but coming from a family member guess is different.

Ironically, Sunday during my home teaching visit, the brother I spoke with used to be in a stake presidency in Boston where Elder Scott would visit a lot. In one of their meetings a similar question was asked of him, and his reply was a scripture reference. D&C 93:1

1 Verily, thus saith the Lord: It shall come to pass that every soul who forsaketh his sins and cometh unto me, and calleth on my name, and obeyeth my voice, and keepeth my commandments, shall see my fface and know that I am;

 

If anyone can have such a witness by following the prescribed conditions, is that too, apostolic? Or is it just a witness? Is there a difference for one who is a member of the 12 as oppose to one of us?

[Senator]

Are you suggesting that a witness from the spirit, as opposed to a personal visitation, is somehow less "true" ? 

 

Probably not.

 

But I would be curious to know what the mind, feel, attitude and trajectory of the church would be if Joseph Smith never said he had seen and talked with The Father and The Son, and with a resurrected Moroni?

Edited September 29, 2015 by Senator

[Sevenbak]

If anyone can have such a witness by following the prescribed conditions, is that too, apostolic? Or is it just a witness? Is there a difference for one who is a member of the 12 as oppose to one of us?

I couldn't even imagine being as faithful and righteous as Elder Scott, so I couldn't answer that question.  Apparently, he followed the prescribed conditions.

[The Nehor]

If anyone can have such a witness by following the prescribed conditions, is that too, apostolic? Or is it just a witness? Is there a difference for one who is a member of the 12 as oppose to one of us?

Apostles are entitled to a special witness to testify of Christ. I have no idea if this means mandatory visitation or a surety borne of the. Holy Ghost or both. I do suspect most apostles get the visitation fairly early in their apostolic 'career'.

I am also convinced that this kind of visitation is not that rare. I know about half a dozen people that I suspect have had it based on things they have said. I can definitively say that I have not.

[JAHS]

Are you suggesting that a witness from the spirit, as opposed to a personal visitation, is somehow less "true" ? 

 

No. In fact it could be just the opposite. If someone should see a vission or be visited by someone from the other side (eg Jesus) there's the possibilitythat they might think they were hallucinating or something. However the witness from the Holy Ghost is probably the more sure witness for anything spiritual. That can not be misunderstood or misinterpreted. 

[stemelbow]

who cares, anymore?

[MiserereNobis]

Jesus, Mary, and the Saints have made many visits to Catholics throughout the history of the Catholic Church.  There's quite a list

[DJBrown]

During Elder Scott's funeral his son said something that caught my attention.

 

"He had a true apostolic witness of Christ as the resurrected Savior. .... And I repeat, He had a "true" (emphasis on true) apostolic witness of Christ as the resurrected Savior."

 

At the 40:30 mark

 

 

Members quite often wonder if any of the General authorities have had a visitation of the Savior. I have always assumed that most of them have not, but a few might have.  The way he said the above seemed to be sending a message that perhaps Elder Scott had such a personal witness; not just a confirmtion from the Holy Ghost.  Maybe I am reading too much into it. 

 

I recommend watching D. Todd Christofferson's comments starting at 49:40.  Very sweet words also alluding to the certainty of an Apostle's witness.  

[The Nehor]

For a 5 hour meeting, that's saying something! 

 

Don't burn the journal!!!

The problem with that journal is that for the most part I did not differentiate in my notes what Elder Scott said and the impressions I got from what he said. The part I shared here is accurate but the rest.......useful for me perhaps but I should not share with others unless I am sure what came from where.

[The Nehor]

No. In fact it could be just the opposite. If someone should see a vission or be visited by someone from the other side (eg Jesus) there's the possibilitythat they might think they were hallucinating or something. However the witness from the Holy Ghost is probably the more sure witness for anything spiritual. That can not be misunderstood or misinterpreted.

True but my understanding and experience is that manifestations are usually accompanied by a healthy dollop of Holy Ghost confirmation. Laman and Lemuel appear to be an exception though.

[Teancum]

I would assume his father told him about it.  I would suppose that things like that are mentioned in a vague way because of the sacred nature of such a thing and  so that we don't hang our testimonies solely on what a person claims he has experienced, but rather on the witness of the Holy Ghost.

 

 

Sorry. I don't buy this to sacred to talk about claim. I think that keeps it intentionally vague as well. JS was not vague in what he claimed nor were the ancient apostles.

[Teancum]

 

 

 

So people can doubt and be less damned for it?

 

 

Pure horse pucky.