D&c In Pbs Newshour Pope Episode

[MiserereNobis]

I was watching the PBS Newshour tonight and they did a spot on the Pope's upcoming visit to the US, highlighting his economic policies.  At the very end they showed a hand-drawn/painted poster that appears to be on a wall in East Harlem.  It has a quote from the D&C in it.  It is a very Christian sounding quote so I guess they assumed it was from the Bible, but it clearly says D&C 61:36 on it (and I checked it out.. yup).

 

I thought my LDS friends would like to know that the D&C made it onto a news show about the Pope

 

Go here and then go to 8:10 on the video:

 

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/pope-francis-wants-us-stop-worshipping-capitalism/

 

 

[Buckeye]

I was watching the PBS Newshour tonight and they did a spot on the Pope's upcoming visit to the US, highlighting his economic policies.  At the very end they showed a hand-drawn/painted poster that appears to be on a wall in East Harlem.  It has a quote from the D&C in it.  It is a very Christian sounding quote so I guess they assumed it was from the Bible, but it clearly says D&C 61:36 on it (and I checked it out.. yup).

 

I thought my LDS friends would like to know that the D&C made it onto a news show about the Pope

 

Go here and then go to 8:10 on the video:

 

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/pope-francis-wants-us-stop-worshipping-capitalism/

Very cool. I read that missionaries in nyc have been doing street art. Perhaps this is an example. What do you think the pope would think of the following passage from d&c?

15 And it is my purpose to provide for my saints, for all things are mine.

16 But it must needs be done in mine own way; and behold this is the way that I, the Lord, have decreed to provide for my saints, that the poor shall be exalted, in that the rich are made low.

17 For the earth is full, and there is enough and to spare; yea, I prepared all things, and have given unto the children of men to be agents unto themselves.

18 Therefore, if any man shall take of the abundance which I have made, and impart not his portion, according to the law of my gospel, unto the poor and the needy, he shall, with the wicked, lift up his eyes in hell, being in torment.

[Kenngo1969]

Damn Mormons!  

 

How low will they stoop to preach their gospel?!  

 

[VideoGameJunkie]

It makes me feel happy that the poor will be exalted, but how poor are we talking? I consider myself poor, but I'm not living on the streets poor like 3rd world country poor. Are those in Africa the ones the scripture is talking about?

[theplains]

16 But it must needs be done in mine own way; and behold this is the way that I, the Lord, have decreed to provide for my saints, that the poor shall be exalted, in that the rich are made low

 

Do you mean exaltation as in to godhood?  Or do you define 'exalted' in some other way?

 

Thanks,

Jim

[MiserereNobis]

Very cool. I read that missionaries in nyc have been doing street art. Perhaps this is an example. What do you think the pope would think of the following passage from d&c?

15 And it is my purpose to provide for my saints, for all things are mine.

16 But it must needs be done in mine own way; and behold this is the way that I, the Lord, have decreed to provide for my saints, that the poor shall be exalted, in that the rich are made low.

17 For the earth is full, and there is enough and to spare; yea, I prepared all things, and have given unto the children of men to be agents unto themselves.

18 Therefore, if any man shall take of the abundance which I have made, and impart not his portion, according to the law of my gospel, unto the poor and the needy, he shall, with the wicked, lift up his eyes in hell, being in torment.

 

I think Pope Francis would be very comfortable with these ideas, especially that the poor will be exalted and the rich made low.  I wonder how the LDS interpret this scripture, because it seems a bit at odds with the very fiscally conservative Mormons that I know.  How prevalent is the theology of prosperity that I hear from my LDS friends?  The idea that if you are righteous then God will give you wealth?  Pope Francis, aligned with his eponym St. Francis, seems to say that the blessed of God are the poor, not the rich.

 

I think the Holy Father would also agree (as do I) that there is enough in the earth for all, if only... the richest weren't so rich.

 

But of course, who are the rich that will "lift up [their] eyes in hell, being torment"?  I am lower middle-class, yet richer than most of the world, so I might be counted among them.

 

Christianity asks some difficult questions of us when it comes to money.

[Garden Girl]

Do you mean exaltation as in to godhood?  Or do you define 'exalted' in some other way?

 

Thanks,

Jim

 

I think exalted here means "raised up" vs Godhood, etc.  The rich shall be made low, and the opposite is the poor shall be exalted (raised high).  Opposition type language IMO...

And we are to impart of our substance to the poor and needy or we will be with the wicked...

 

GG

[telnetd]

I think exalted here means "raised up" vs Godhood, etc.  The rich shall be made low, and the opposite is the poor shall be exalted (raised high).  Opposition type language IMO...

And we are to impart of our substance to the poor and needy or we will be with the wicked...

 

GG

 

Which scripture defines the term 'exalted' as becoming a god?

 

Gail

[VideoGameJunkie]

telnetd the only scripture I can recall is D&C 132 which is such a huge scripture chapter and basis for my future desires and goals through eternity. I'm not talking about the polygamy parts of the chapter, but the new and ever lasting covenant of marriage and the rewards. That one chapter is why people think we get planets and become gods.

[PeterPear]

I was watching the PBS Newshour tonight and they did a spot on the Pope's upcoming visit to the US, highlighting his economic policies.  At the very end they showed a hand-drawn/painted poster that appears to be on a wall in East Harlem.  It has a quote from the D&C in it.  It is a very Christian sounding quote so I guess they assumed it was from the Bible, but it clearly says D&C 61:36 on it (and I checked it out.. yup).

 

I thought my LDS friends would like to know that the D&C made it onto a news show about the Pope

 

Go here and then go to 8:10 on the video:

 

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/pope-francis-wants-us-stop-worshipping-capitalism/

Very nice! Thanks for sharing this.

[Bernard Gui]

I think Pope Francis would be very comfortable with these ideas, especially that the poor will be exalted and the rich made low.  I wonder how the LDS interpret this scripture, because it seems a bit at odds with the very fiscally conservative Mormons that I know.  How prevalent is the theology of prosperity that I hear from my LDS friends?  The idea that if you are righteous then God will give you wealth?  

I don't understand how this scripture can be at odds with being fiscally conservative. That does not mean being a miser or grinding the face of the poor.  One can be rich and still help the poor. In fact, being rich puts one in a better position to help than being poor does.

 

LDS interpret this scripture to mean we share what we are blessed with, we consecrate everything we have to the Lord, we give of our means to help the poor, we strive to be self-sufficient and not to burden others, we are honest in our dealings. Being fiscally conservative makes it possible to give to the poor. If everyone is poor, no one can help anyone else.  In practice, this currently takes the form of the fast offering: skipping 2 meals once a month and donating the money that was saved to help the poor. There is no upper limit on the amount one can donate. This is such a simple practice. If everyone did it, there would be few who are poor.

 

Both the rich and the poor have responsibilities.

Doctrine and Covenants 56

16 Wo unto you rich men, that will not give your substance to the poor, for your riches will canker your souls; and this shall be your lamentation in the day of visitation, and of judgment, and of indignation: The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and my soul is not saved!  17 Wo unto you poor men, whose hearts are not broken, whose spirits are not contrite, and whose bellies are not satisfied, and whose hands are not stayed from laying hold upon other men’s goods, whose eyes are full of greediness, and who will not labor with your own hands! 18 But blessed are the poor who are pure in heart, whose hearts are broken, and whose spirits are contrite, for they shall see the kingdom of God coming in power and great glory unto their deliverance; for the fatness of the earth shall be theirs. 

 

Edited September 20, 2015 by Bernard Gui

[3DOP]

It seems necessary to make a distinction between "poor in spirit" and poor. Blessed are the poor in spirit. I tend to think this is a distinction that is missed by those who apparently think that our eternal destiny is based on money instead of charity.

[theplains]

telnetd the only scripture I can recall is D&C 132 which is such a huge scripture chapter and basis for my future desires and goals through eternity. I'm not talking about the polygamy parts of the chapter, but the new and ever lasting covenant of marriage and the rewards. That one chapter is why people think we get planets and become gods.

 

Why does D&C 132:61-63 mention the number ten in the law of the priesthood to take virgins

as wives?  Is that some implied limit?  And why must the wives be virgins?

 

Thanks,

Jim

[Russell C McGregor]

Why does D&C 132:61-63 mention the number ten in the law of the priesthood to take virgins

as wives?  Is that some implied limit?  And why must the wives be virgins?

 

Thanks,

Jim

 

Is this relevant to the topic?

[Skylla]

Get back on topic or people will be removed from the thread.

 

Skylla

[3DOP]

I think Pope Francis would be very comfortable with these ideas, especially that the poor will be exalted and the rich made low.  I wonder how the LDS interpret this scripture, because it seems a bit at odds with the very fiscally conservative Mormons that I know.  How prevalent is the theology of prosperity that I hear from my LDS friends?  The idea that if you are righteous then God will give you wealth?  Pope Francis, aligned with his eponym St. Francis, seems to say that the blessed of God are the poor, not the rich.

 

I think the Holy Father would also agree (as do I) that there is enough in the earth for all, if only... the richest weren't so rich.

 

But of course, who are the rich that will "lift up [their] eyes in hell, being torment"?  I am lower middle-class, yet richer than most of the world, so I might be counted among them.

 

Christianity asks some difficult questions of us when it comes to money.

 

I believe everybody has enough nature (earth) and grace (heaven) to join the relatively rich (every person who gets food stamps in the US today) in the opportunity to go to heaven. I don't think the rich has so much wealth as to kill anybody's body. Maybe I am wrong? The rich starve bodies! Millions. Billions? They still can't kill the soul. Unless they succeed in making the poor share their temptation for the fading value of temporal riches, the tempter can't touch the soul of those who are "poor in spirit" whether they are rich or poor in fact. It seems like most, some on this board, the Catholic pope, and others, would get the so-called poor all worked up against the so-called rich. To what end? Where is the good in hating people who are wealthy? Where is the virtue in a "poverty" that is filled with greed, that is focused on what is "just" in the temporal realm? That is a corruption. There is no good news in that Gospel.

Edited September 21, 2015 by 3DOP

[Storm Rider]

I think Pope Francis would be very comfortable with these ideas, especially that the poor will be exalted and the rich made low.  I wonder how the LDS interpret this scripture, because it seems a bit at odds with the very fiscally conservative Mormons that I know.  How prevalent is the theology of prosperity that I hear from my LDS friends?  The idea that if you are righteous then God will give you wealth?  Pope Francis, aligned with his eponym St. Francis, seems to say that the blessed of God are the poor, not the rich.

 

I think the Holy Father would also agree (as do I) that there is enough in the earth for all, if only... the richest weren't so rich.

 

But of course, who are the rich that will "lift up [their] eyes in hell, being torment"?  I am lower middle-class, yet richer than most of the world, so I might be counted among them.

 

Christianity asks some difficult questions of us when it comes to money.

 

1. Thank you for letting us know of this event.
2. I agree with you that the Pope Francis would be very comfortable with this quote.
3. I don't think there is a high correlation between LDS teachings and Prosperity theology.  The Church teaches that prosperity is a blessing, but it is not necessarily a blessing of the righteous.  We are more comfortable with a concept of being rich in spirit, or spiritual gifts than money.

The Church teaches that the righteous are those who follow the Savior; they have a broken and contrite spirit; the humble are his blessed people.  Wealth is a dangerous blessing for most, if not all, of humanity.  It is difficult to maintain a eye single to the glory of God and count dollars at night.  It can happen, but it is difficult.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Storm Rider

[Calm]

Fromthe regional conference talk linked to in the other thread:

"One thing that is constantly on my mind is knowing that individuals who don’t stay focused on the simple doctrine and gospel of Christ will eventually listen to false teachers and self-declared prophets and adopt worldly philosophies. These alternative voices include:

The allure of prideful wealth...

I also worry that some members in the Utah South Area live beyond their means as they attempt to keep up with their neighbors. We make a very serious mistake when we compare our lives with those who have much wealth, forgetting that most of us have already prospered in the land. Please be content and enjoy the blessings you have already have received instead becoming a slave to unwise use of consumer debt."

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1990/04/i-have-a-question?lang=eng

"The scriptures teach that if we keep the commandments we will prosper. Yet many faithful members of the Church face hardships. Why aren’t we always blessed with prosperity when we are living worthily?

Alan Webster, an institute instructor and teacher for the Temple Preparation Seminar in the Reading England Stake. Perhaps the problem lies in our tendency to think of prosperity only as it is represented by material wealth or lack of serious problems. The word prosperity itself comes from the Latin pro + spes, which means “hope.” Though the word soon came to mean “succeed” and is often used in the sense of material success, it does not necessarily mean an abundance of temporal possessions—or even a relatively comfortable, problem-free life.

If we remember the scriptures’ admonition that “men are, that they might have joy” (2 Ne. 2:25), we can see that, for those who live the gospel, prosperity can mean joy, peace, harmony, unity, love, and sufficient faith and means to meet our needs without fear. Such prosperity comes because one possesses faith and peace of mind.

The scriptures record many promises of prosperity to those who are faithful to the Lord. For example, in 1 Nephi 2:20, [1 Ne. 2:20] we read the Lord’s promise to Nephi, “Inasmuch as ye shall keep my commandments, ye shall prosper, and shall be led to … a land which is choice above all other lands.” In 2 Nephi 1:9, we read a similar promise to “those whom the Lord God shall bring out of the land of Jerusalem”—Lehi and his family. [2 Ne. 1:9]

Note, however, that these verses do not promise prosperity unconditionally to everyone. Indeed, not even all the members of Lehi’s group prospered. Among the group were Laman and Lemuel, both of whom murmured against the Lord, their father, and their brother Nephi. Laman and Lemuel eventually separated from Nephi, and those who followed them eventually became wicked and anything but prosperous.

The Nephites, on the other hand, did prosper in the land to which the Lord had led them when they kept the commandments. As a group, they were close to the Lord, and the Lord blessed them in their “land of promise.” This does not necessarily mean, however, that others who are righteous will always receive similar rewards.

Righteousness involves a cleansing of the spirit—a putting aside of worldly attitudes and values and a dedicating of one’s self to furthering the Lord’s work. If we are righteous, we will be able to put the world’s values and attitudes in proper context and follow the Spirit’s promptings in our everyday lives and endeavors.

Consequently, if our desires are righteous, our decisions will lead to success—though not necessarily in terms of worldly wealth or absence of problems. The Lord promises, “Pray always, and I will pour out my Spirit upon you, and great shall be your blessing—yea, even more than if you should obtain treasures of earth and corruptibleness to the extent thereof.” (D&C 19:38.)

To the Saints of this dispensation, he promised, “If ye seek the riches which it is the will of the Father to give unto you, ye shall be the richest of all people, for ye shall have the riches of eternity; and it must needs be that the riches of the earth are mine to give.” (D&C 38:39.)

Let us note that, although the Lord can bestow on us “the riches of the earth,” the riches he most wants to bless us with are “the riches of eternity.” As he counsels elsewhere, “Seek not for riches, but for wisdom, and behold, the mysteries of God shall be unfolded unto you, and then shall you be made rich. Behold, he that hath eternal life is rich.” (D&C 6:7.)

One of the problems with material wealth is that it sometimes corrupts those who have it. It is for this reason that the Lord’s promise of riches in section 38 cited above ends with the warning: “But beware of pride, lest ye become as the Nephites of old.” (D&C 6:39.)

If we set our minds on the “treasures of earth” rather than on the things of eternity, we will lose our spirituality and begin to rely on our own wisdom. Indeed, it was the Nephites’ pride and lust for riches and their failure to dedicate their blessings to the Lord’s work that stirred Jacob to condemn them for failing to “think of [their] brethren like unto [them]selves” and for not being “familiar with all and free with [their] substance.” (Jacob 2:17.)

In saying that prosperity can be gauged in other than material ways, I do not imply that we must simply accept our circumstances in life as God-given and do nothing to change them. We should develop our talents and abilities and make the most of our situations. But we must not ascribe worldly success to righteousness, or lack of success to a lack of righteousness. It is true that the Lord does sometimes directly bless someone materially, but more often he expects us to learn particular principles—both temporal and spiritual—and apply them to our lives. In this way, we learn to handle difficulties and problems and to advance in knowledge and understanding.

The truly righteous are prosperous, in the sense that they have confidence, which triggers faith into activity and creates beneficial circumstances from less-favorable ones. They do not wait for the Lord to give or withhold rewards, but instead call on him for guidance about what will be most beneficial for them, both temporally and spiritually. Such guidance may lead to changing occupations, moving to another district, acquiring training or new skills, or accepting things as they are but working within one’s own limitations and following the Spirit’s direction in other ways.

Some problems may appear to be beyond our control, and our faith may be put to the test, but we need not find any situation hopeless. As the Lord tells us in Moroni 7:33, with faith and hope we can “have power to do whatsoever thing is expedient.” [Moro. 7:33] Just as the early Saints crossed the plains with little more than a driving faith that all would be well, we, too, need to forge ahead with faith. In doing so, we can support each other and learn to find joy, not in material possessions or comfortable situations, but in our relationship with the Lord, in service to others, and in developing our capacity to overcome obstacles with God’s help."

Edited September 21, 2015 by Calm

[Damien the Leper]

Damn Mormons!

How low will they stoop to preach their gospel?!

An LDS libertarian friend is whining about the D&C quote. Some libertarians are not that bright. Edited September 22, 2015 by Valentinus