Withholding Inheritance From "unworthy" Children?

[sethpayne]

Just curious what folks here think about this*:

 

 

Personally I don't think parents owe their children an inheritance and can use/spend/donate the fruit of their life's labor in any way they see fit.

 

Starting at ~11:30 you can hear this dad state how if his sons continue on behaving according to his beliefs, they will retain their inheritance (which it sounds like has been set up to do a lot of charity work).  Otherwise, it will go to the LDS Church.  Keep in mind this video was produced by LDS Philanthropies.  

 

Has anyone here removed a "wayward" child from their will?  A child who left the Church?  

 

Seems to me this dad is setting up a scenario where his sons are highly motivated to 1) be good Church members in order to retain their inheritance or 2) pretend to be good Church members until Mom and Dad die.  Seems like a bad situation all around with really bad carrots and sticks being used.  Seems a an odd video to be made by LDS philanthropies.  I'm glad they decided to remove it from their official sites but it has been mirrored several places.

 

* Note: I was alerted to this video by the vile apostate Kishkumen.  Full disclosure.

[halconero]

They might want to consider the actions of the father in the parable of the prodigal son.

[Spammer]

When I told my dad (RIP) that I no longer believe, he told me that that would change the tenor of our relationship and it would never be the same.  I responded by saying, "well I love you dad and always will.  My being LDS or something else or your being LDS or something else has no bearing on how I view you and how I view us.  I still want our relationship to be just as strong as it's always been, but if anything changes in our relationship it's only because you've changed."   I would never change the terms of my relationship with my sons if they decided they wanted to pursue a different spiritual path than me.

[thesometimesaint]

The prodigal son spent his own inheritance. He had no right to spend his brother's.

[Calm]

I wouldn't cut anyone out for belief, only for dangerous self destructive behaviour that money would make easier to do, such as drugs, etc. even then, I would probably set it up in a trust so that positive, healthy behaviours would be funded.

[halconero]

The prodigal son spent his own inheritance. He had no right to spend his brother's.

Which is not the question that was raised.

[The Nehor]

The prodigal son spent his own inheritance. He had no right to spend his brother's.

 

He got some of it anyways. If there was inheritance for two sons and he had spent his then out of whose inheritance did the fatted calves and ring come from? This may be straining the parable though. God has everything and can give everything to everyone. If there was a limited inheritance for those inheriting eternal life missionary work would be a two-edged sword as we diluted our eternal reward.

 

 

When I told my dad (RIP) that I no longer believe, he told me that that would change the tenor of our relationship and it would never be the same.  I responded by saying, "well I love you dad and always will.  My being LDS or something else or your being LDS or something else has no bearing on how I view you and how I view us.  I still want our relationship to be just as strong as it's always been, but if anything changes in our relationship it's only because you've changed."   I would never change the terms of my relationship with my sons if they decided they wanted to pursue a different spiritual path than me.

 

While I do not think I would love my father any less if he left the faith it would be a source of pain to me and our relationship would change even if our love for each other was undimished. I want to be able to seek blessings under his hands and hopefully one day for my children to be able to do the same. I want his spiritual counsel.

[The Nehor]

Starting at ~11:30 you can hear this dad state how if his sons continue on behaving according to his beliefs, they will retain their inheritance (which it sounds like has been set up to do a lot of charity work).  Otherwise, it will go to the LDS Church.  Keep in mind this video was produced by LDS Philanthropies.  

 

Has anyone here removed a "wayward" child from their will?  A child who left the Church?  

 

I get the impression from the short bit of the video I watched that this is an inheritance designed for charity use and that the parents want their children to supervise its use. If they feel that it will not be supervised as they wish after they are gone that they will give it to the church. They may have other money and/or property to distribute to their children for their comfort and use as they wish.

[3DOP]

Spammer...

 

There are practical reasons why all of the family believing the same is going to be more harmonious. For one or more children to reject what the rest of the family believes does not mean that the ones who have changed are no longer loved or that one who has changed no longer loves. It seems to me like your father chose his words carefully, even perhaps lovingly. It doesn't seem to show anger, but disappointment with a new reality. The tenor will be different. Maybe you can "still make music together", meaning to enjoy one another's company. But there will be a significant subject that will be sore. It will be a source of sorrow and disappointment at funerals, weddings, and baptisms. Even when we are informal, loved ones are always looking for shared experiences, shared interests, and shared values. Loving another draws us to want likeness. We would emulate the beloved or have the beloved emulate us.

 

It is awkward in my family now that most of us have become Catholic because I have one brother who continues to think Catholicism is of the devil. At our Dad's Requiem Mass, he wouldn't sit in the front with the rest of us. I don't hold it against him. We cannot play the same notes. Firm beliefs bring firmness of unity as well as powerful divisions. My brother and I are friends about less important things like baseball. It doesn't mean we hate each other. I know we don't. Maybe it is because we do care, that we never or seldom talk about the things that divide us. We wish it were not so, but that is the way of it.

Edited September 6, 2015 by 3DOP

[3DOP]

I don't have any rules yet about our children's inheritance. Justice might dictate that a child who rejected my faith gets all of the inheritance if they happened to be the child that helped its parents the most in their final years.

[thesometimesaint]

Which is not the question.

 

It was the question. How do we handle relationships/inheritances, with the prodigal? Thus my answer. We maintain the relationship as much as possible, but that relationship has changed. To give the other son's inheritance to another does injustice to the former.

[thesometimesaint]

I don't have any rules yet about our children's inheritance. Justice might dictate that a child who rejected my faith gets all of the inheritance if they happened to be the child that helped its parents the most in their final years.

 

I took care of my mom the last 10 years of her life. I wanted, and accepted, nothing in return for that care. I was also her estate executor. I made sure it all was divided equally among us children. If I die before my wife she gets it all, and if she dies before me I get it all. After that it is to be divided equally among our children.

[Paddy]

What a person does with thier inheritance is really up to them. To sell this idea as an advertising testimonial is a bit off.

[Storm Rider]

This is a good topic for spouses to discuss, plan, and implement for the future passing from this world.  I personally do not feel comfortable with a concept that we would provide different levels of inheritance depending upon the spiritual health of our children.  I would hope that we would never adjust our will to reflect such a position. 

 

When my parents passed, the money was of little importance to me.  Prior to my mother passing she talked privately with each child and asked if there was something special we wanted.  The most desired item was a picture of her as a baby in an antique frame.  Each of my six siblings wanted it.  It is the small, personal things that have more value than money.  

[halconero]

 

It was the question. How do we handle relationships/inheritances, with the prodigal? Thus my answer. We maintain the relationship as much as possible, but that relationship has changed. To give the other son's inheritance to another does injustice to the former.

 

 

Which is not what I was suggesting, nor does the parable, which I think we can agree.

[3DOP]

This is a good topic for spouses to discuss, plan, and implement for the future passing from this world.  I personally do not feel comfortable with a concept that we would provide different levels of inheritance depending upon the spiritual health of our children.  I would hope that we would never adjust our will to reflect such a position. 

 

When my parents passed, the money was of little importance to me.  Prior to my mother passing she talked privately with each child and asked if there was something special we wanted.  The most desired item was a picture of her as a baby in an antique frame.  Each of my six siblings wanted it.  It is the small, personal things that have more value than money.  

 

I guess every family is different. My wife has been a stay at home mother and wife for virtually all of our 33 years together and we both wanted very much to keep it that way. By the time we could have used her income, she was older without any job history and little kids at home. How do you get away with making disastrous employment decisions that put you in a deep hole at age 40 with four children? I would fill out job applications and the application always asked about why I quit pastoring. It was beyond explanation on a job application, but I would try. I was a little naive. I also felt like I had to still be a witness to my faith...since they asked the question. I know now they were just wanting to know if I quit, or got fired, and why. I shouldn't have tried to explain. I was stupid. Needless to say, I suppose, my theological treatises on job applications left me unemployed. Finally, a friend from my old church (sheesh, a few of you know him from ZLMB days and former days here. Dave, of course!) gave me a job driving and it led to the okay job I have had now for over 18 years. Together with my wife's inheritance, we have a solid middling kind of situation.

 

But it was so late to finally be making a little bit of money. We needed help and without it, I am sure God would have provided some other way, but we needed help. We would have had to be angels to be ambivalent about the money my father-in-law had. My wife was his only child except for an autistic sister and she lovingly took care of them both all of those last years, knowing that she would get it all anyway. I guess I am saying that I truly honor and admire anyone who doesn't care about getting an inheritance. But sometimes its nearly impossible. I hope my children are able to have that admirable ambivalence. But if for some reason they can't, I will understand. I will remember how it was if one or more of them are like their Dad, and takes a career path that doesn't work out. 

 

If I have one child who is ambivalent because they are well off and another that needs extra help, I'll take into consideration why and be inclined to want to help the one who needs and/or deserves it most. I remember once coming home from work when the kids were small and somebody gave me some kind of goodies. Cookies, candy bars, I don't remember. I knew all of the kids would like them but I had four kids, and less than four of the goodies. I could reject the goodies altogether since there wasn't enough, or I could tell them that there isn't enough for everybody. I love you all, but this time some get the goodies and others don't. I might have asked their mother if anyone had been good or bad that day. It might tip the balance if someone stood out. They understood. Maybe it evened out? There were times when I felt like I could afford to buy one treat but not four. I got one treat rather than none, and they knew that was how it worked.

 

As grownups...or after leaving the house anyway...our kids have been at different stages of need and we have helped all of them at different times and some more than others. I don't think any of them doubt their parents' love. But they also have to know that just like those days when I would come home with not enough goodies for all, Mom and Dad will probably continue to distribute our worldly goods according to our perception of who is more needy and/or deserving. I am not against giving rewards, even to grownups.

Edited September 6, 2015 by 3DOP

[Traela]

I took care of my mom the last 10 years of her life. I wanted, and accepted, nothing in return for that care. I was also her estate executor. I made sure it all was divided equally among us children. If I die before my wife she gets it all, and if she dies before me I get it all. After that it is to be divided equally among our children.

When my husband's grandparents were at the end of their lives, their children decided together that those who were able to help care for them would be compensated. One son and his wife did most of it, since they lived the closest, but many other children and grandchildren also participated. There was a log book for caregivers to sign in and out. After both grandparents died, the caregivers were paid and the remainder was divided evenly among the children. While all those who participated would have done so for nothing, it was a way for those who lived far away to show their love and appreciation.

[Teancum]

Just curious what folks here think about this*:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNRlg6O8ekU

 

Personally I don't think parents owe their children an inheritance and can use/spend/donate the fruit of their life's labor in any way they see fit.

 

Starting at ~11:30 you can hear this dad state how if his sons continue on behaving according to his beliefs, they will retain their inheritance (which it sounds like has been set up to do a lot of charity work).  Otherwise, it will go to the LDS Church.  Keep in mind this video was produced by LDS Philanthropies.  

 

Has anyone here removed a "wayward" child from their will?  A child who left the Church?  

 

Seems to me this dad is setting up a scenario where his sons are highly motivated to 1) be good Church members in order to retain their inheritance or 2) pretend to be good Church members until Mom and Dad die.  Seems like a bad situation all around with really bad carrots and sticks being used.  Seems a an odd video to be made by LDS philanthropies.  I'm glad they decided to remove it from their official sites but it has been mirrored several places.

 

* Note: I was alerted to this video by the vile apostate Kishkumen.  Full disclosure.

Nope. I have four and they all are varying in what they believe. I now am a skeptic but she I was more solid in my LDS belief my some already had no interest in the church. Yet he was working, starting a family and living his life well but lacking the church or any religion. I would not have thought for second to cut him from my will and any inheritance he might receive because in this man's words , he was not a "worthy" preisthood holder or temple recommend holder. What a sad way to try to control your family.

[Teancum]

What a person does with thier inheritance is really up to them. To sell this idea as an advertising testimonial is a bit off.

True and yes.

[mrmarklin]

I took care of my mom the last 10 years of her life. I wanted, and accepted, nothing in return for that care. I was also her estate executor. I made sure it all was divided equally among us children. If I die before my wife she gets it all, and if she dies before me I get it all. After that it is to be divided equally among our children.

This.

The idea that my children must have the same beliefs as I do to inherit would create under tension such that they might never see the error of their ways.

[carbon dioxide]

Children are not entitled to an inheritance.  It is a gift the parents may give to them if their kids and they set up the criteria that comes with it.  I heard that Barron Hilton is not giving any of his inheritance to Paris Hilton because of her actions. Perhaps he changed his mind since then but he is well withing his rights and his decision is just.  As for me I stand to get a good sum of money when my parents die.  I already know what most of it is going for.  Rather than buying a nice car or house, it is going to my kids for college and mission.  It is where my parents would want it to go and where I want it to go as well. 

[Storm Rider]

I guess every family is different. My wife has been a stay at home mother and wife for virtually all of our 33 years together and we both wanted very much to keep it that way. By the time we could have used her income, she was older without any job history and little kids at home. How do you get away with making disastrous employment decisions that put you in a deep hole at age 40 with four children? I would fill out job applications and the application always asked about why I quit pastoring. It was beyond explanation on a job application, but I would try. I was a little naive. I also felt like I had to still be a witness to my faith...since they asked the question. I know now they were just wanting to know if I quit, or got fired, and why. I shouldn't have tried to explain. I was stupid. Needless to say, I suppose, my theological treatises on job applications left me unemployed. Finally, a friend from my old church (sheesh, a few of you know him from ZLMB days and former days here. Dave, of course!) gave me a job driving and it led to the okay job I have had now for over 18 years. Together with my wife's inheritance, we have a solid middling kind of situation.

 

But it was so late to finally be making a little bit of money. We needed help and without it, I am sure God would have provided some other way, but we needed help. We would have had to be angels to be ambivalent about the money my father-in-law had. My wife was his only child except for an autistic sister and she lovingly took care of them both all of those last years, knowing that she would get it all anyway. I guess I am saying that I truly honor and admire anyone who doesn't care about getting an inheritance. But sometimes its nearly impossible. I hope my children are able to have that admirable ambivalence. But if for some reason they can't, I will understand. I will remember how it was if one or more of them are like their Dad, and takes a career path that doesn't work out. 

 

If I have one child who is ambivalent because they are well off and another that needs extra help, I'll take into consideration why and be inclined to want to help the one who needs and/or deserves it most. I remember once coming home from work when the kids were small and somebody gave me some kind of goodies. Cookies, candy bars, I don't remember. I knew all of the kids would like them but I had four kids, and less than four of the goodies. I could reject the goodies altogether since there wasn't enough, or I could tell them that there isn't enough for everybody. I love you all, but this time some get the goodies and others don't. I might have asked their mother if anyone had been good or bad that day. It might tip the balance if someone stood out. They understood. Maybe it evened out? There were times when I felt like I could afford to buy one treat but not four. I got one treat rather than none, and they knew that was how it worked.

 

As grownups...or after leaving the house anyway...our kids have been at different stages of need and we have helped all of them at different times and some more than others. I don't think any of them doubt their parents' love. But they also have to know that just like those days when I would come home with not enough goodies for all, Mom and Dad will probably continue to distribute our worldly goods according to our perception of who is more needy and/or deserving. I am not against giving rewards, even to grownups.

 

I agree that sometimes the needs of our children should play a role in our how we provide an inheritance.  As others have indicated, parents are not compelled to leave any inheritance to their children; however, it has been the norm throughout history to do so.  Our estate, imo, should improve the lives of my children.  Some children need extra help for a variety of reasons.  Our love for them directs doing what is right.  Sometimes money is not what is needed and other times it is what changes their lives.  

 

We need to be just with our children.  Care for them, help them, strengthen them, cherish them, love them.  As a grandfather, I love to spoil my grandchildren.  I have designed most of my inheritance for their welfare.  Many are able to do far more than I can do, but I do the best I can.  I focus on education, travel, and providing for ways to facilitate the acquisition of their first homes.  

[cinepro]

I get the impression from the short bit of the video I watched that this is an inheritance designed for charity use and that the parents want their children to supervise its use. If they feel that it will not be supervised as they wish after they are gone that they will give it to the church. They may have other money and/or property to distribute to their children for their comfort and use as they wish.

 

It's a little clearer if you start watching around the 8 minute mark.  The father had a bit of wealth that would go to his kids, he felt they weren't making good choices in life and worried that money would exacerbate the bad choices, so he was looking for alternatives and Ron Black at LDS Philanthropies explained a plan where he could set up a "charity" (i.e. trust) and if the sons weren't living up to their "Priesthood responsibilities", the money would go to the Church.

 

Weirder things have happened.

Edited September 7, 2015 by cinepro

[David13]

Well it's a good idea first to remind everyone to plan for their demise.

I think it's a good idea not to reward bad behavior with an inheritance.  I don't think it's good to give anything to an offspring that would squander the money perhaps on vice (dope, gambling, alcohol, etc.)

I have no kids, so everything I have goes to the church, I'm glad to say.

dc

[rpn]

Didn't read other posts: 

 

The  OP should not have represented that it is sanctioned by LDS Philanthropies 8 hrs ago ,when it was removed from that site at least as by Saturday AM. 

https://www.ldsphilanthropies.org/ldsp/news-features/journey-to-become.html

 

Conditioning an inheritance on belief is like offering a bribe to heaven.  It stands zero chance of sanctifying or blessing the life of the child to impose that condition and it has high risk of seducing dishonesty about beliefs and bad feelings towards the Lord's church, and disrupt living family harmony.  The original video intends a real positive message.   But you cannot protect your children from bad choices and expect them to grow.   And I think this man may not have seen how easily inheritance disparities pull families apart and leave some feeling less than.  I'm glad it has been removed, (but apparently will continue to live in infamy on all the sites that embedded the URL before it was deleted).

 

Now if the conditioning was simply bad wording (like someone suggesting it was I want people who think like I do to administer the charitable giving and I know that my second son does not), then the author needs to be a lot more precise in the wording.

Edited September 7, 2015 by rpn