Lds Undermining Calls To Acceptance As Christian

[bluebell]

I don't care who calls themselves mormon.  As long as they aren't doing it trying to pretend they are a member of the LDS church when they aren't, they can use the label all they want.

[thesometimesaint]

Sorry. Maybe I was unclear. I don't mean this as a reason to deny anyone anything. I am just considering the apparent way the LDS leadership contradicts it's call for acceptance as "Christian" by denying off-shoots the status of "Mormon". It's a consistency issue mainly. (Although it would seem to inevitably affect how the call to be accepted as Christian is viewed - inconsistent, hypocritical, insincere - and thus how it may be responded to.)

 

All cats and dogs are mammals. But not all mammals are cats or dogs.

[ERayR]

Sorry. Maybe I was unclear. I don't mean this as a reason to deny anyone anything. I am just considering the apparent way the LDS leadership contradicts it's call for acceptance as "Christian" by denying off-shoots the status of "Mormon". It's a consistency issue mainly. (Although it would seem to inevitably affect how the call to be accepted as Christian is viewed - inconsistent, hypocritical, insincere - and thus how it may be responded to.)

 

Not when you understand how the words are being used. 

[Buckeye]

   Frankly, I really do not care whether a group or individual or denomination thinks that I and the rest of the LDS think that I and the LDS in general are Christians. The term seemingly was coined by non-Christians many centuries ago to categorize the followers of this strange new religion, I would wager, er, tentatively put forth the idea that a Muslim well versed in the history of the Christian religious movement would be amused by the haggling and pretty much consider all 39000 or so Christian denominations pretty much in the same camp. Although such an one might feel that the LDS was a bit wimpy in giving up on polygamy, since it was a feature of the Lords people for several thousand years.

  Most Christians probably view the followers of Allah and Mohammed as Muslims, even though there are some pretty deep rifts among the different Muslim sects. 

   The only person whose opinion really matters is the one that Christ has of us.

 

Glenn

 

I tend to agree. But for some reason my church seems to care a whole lot that we are viewed as authentic christians. https://www.lds.org/topics/christians?lang=eng

 

Anyway, it would seem to me at least that the word "Mormon" should apply to anyone who includes the Book of Mormon in their canon, and "Latter-day Saint" should be used to more specifically refer to members of the mainstream LDS Church. 

 

I would add the caveat that groups should be allowed to eschew the term "mormon" if they want, even if they include the BOM in their canon. I have the CoC in mind specifically, as they tend to dislike the term "mormon" but still revere the BOM.

[Gray]

I tend to agree. But for some reason my church seems to care a whole lot that we are viewed as authentic christians. https://www.lds.org/topics/christians?lang=eng

 

 

I would add the caveat that groups should be allowed to eschew the term "mormon" if they want, even if they include the BOM in their canon. I have the CoC in mind specifically, as they tend to dislike the term "mormon" but still revere the BOM.

 

Yes, exactly. Let everyone self-identify how they wish. 

[thesometimesaint]

As a Catholic, that is the same definition we use. Who has a valid baptism, that has initiated them into the Christian faith?

Obviously, there are many people who could care less what the Catholic definitions of Christian are. Likewise, there are groups who claim to be Mormon that obviously don't care what the LDS Church definitions of Mormon are.

 

Not too sure the Catholics appreciate being called non Christian by other Christians.

[The Nehor]

Yes, exactly. Let everyone self-identify how they wish.

Then I am a Buddhist Muslim Christian Mehodist Baptist Jainist Hindu Catholic Mormon Sikh who also dabbles in Shinto, Wicca, and flower arranging.

[jkwilliams]

Then I am a Buddhist Muslim Christian Mehodist Baptist Jainist Hindu Catholic Mormon Sikh who also dabbles in Shinto, Wicca, and flower arranging.

 

I am an adherent of the Western Branch of American Reform Presbylutheranism.

[Gray]

Then I am a Buddhist Muslim Christian Mehodist Baptist Jainist Hindu Catholic Mormon Sikh who also dabbles in Shinto, Wicca, and flower arranging.

 

That's fine. 

[The Nehor]

That's fine.

Only if being a schizophrenic is fine.

[Gray]

Only if being a schizophrenic is fine.

 

It's not schizophrenic. Maybe a bit odd, but it's fine. Who am I to tell you that you can't self identify as any or all of that?

[The Nehor]

It's not schizophrenic. Maybe a bit odd, but it's fine. Who am I to tell you that you can't self identify as any or all of that?

You probably wouldn't tell me but you would think I was nuts to hold such overtly contradictory beliefs.

[Ahab]

Okay Joshua has been straightened out now.

Where can we all go to now for the BBQ?

[Gray]

You probably wouldn't tell me but you would think I was nuts to hold such overtly contradictory beliefs.

 

Not really. You can harmonize any set of belief systems. Mormonism has elements of a lot of different belief systems. So does Catholicism. 

[Jacob]

This topic is not about whether or not Mormons are Christians.  It is not about whether Mormonism is a Christian religion.

 

It is about whether and how the LDS leadership undermines its own position, and that of the membership - that other Christian groups should recognize it, them, as Christians - when it refuses to recognize other Mormon groups as Mormons.

 

I like the argument you present here. However, When "Christian" denominations deny the title "Christian" to other groups, it is not to differentiate between the two differing manner of belief in Christ, it is to state that the other does not believe/follow Christ. When the LDS Church attempts to deny the title "Mormon" to the off shoot group it is to differentiate the two groups, not to make a statement about the beliefs of the other group. When someone states that they are Christian, an unbeliever would assume that that person has a belief that includes the New Testament as a book of divine scripture. They would not assume that that person adheres to the Catholic, Protestant, Evangelic, Mormon or any other belief. The unbeliever would clarify which denomination the person belonged to. The necessity of segregating LDS/Mormon from the title Christian is not there. 

[The Nehor]

Not really. You can harmonize any set of belief systems. Mormonism has elements of a lot of different belief systems. So does Catholicism.

Okay, harmonize the Savior's admonition that he loves all equally and we should do the same with Nazi ideology, the Hindu caste system, and the Klingon Code of the Warrior.

[Gray]

Okay, harmonize the Savior's admonition that he loves all equally and we should do the same with Nazi ideology, the Hindu caste system, and the Klingon Code of the Warrior.

 

We should love all equally, but don't give bread to the dogs (insert Nazi list of enemies, people on the lower end of the caste system). 

 

Add to all this, every day is a good day to die!

[Tsuzuki]

I consider myself a Luciferian non-Christian Mormon Thelemite. Historical claims aside, I accept all the core doctrines of the LDS church except for the doctrine of vicarious atonement.

[Gray]

I consider myself a Luciferian non-Christian Mormon Thelemite. Historical claims aside, I accept all the core doctrines of the LDS church except for the doctrine of vicarious atonement.

 

See? It can be done

[volgadon]

The world is our rotisserie.

[The Nehor]

I consider myself a Luciferian non-Christian Mormon Thelemite. Historical claims aside, I accept all the core doctrines of the LDS church except for the doctrine of vicarious atonement.

You do realize the teaching that the Holy Ghost is a God and that Satan is a fallen angel and that they are not the same person is also a core doctrine right?

[The Nehor]

See? It can be done

I did include a clause for insanity.

[Calm]

 I accept all the core doctrines of the LDS church except for the doctrine of vicarious atonement.

No doctrine in the gospel is more important than the Atonement of Jesus Christ. If the gospel were compared to a wheel, the Atonement would be the hub and all other doctrines would be the spokes emanating from the hub. As the Prophet Joseph Smith declared, “The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 121).

 

https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrines-of-the-gospel-student-manual/chapter-9-the-atonement-of-jesus-christ?lang=eng

[Tsuzuki]

You do realize the teaching that the Holy Ghost is a God and that Satan is a fallen angel and that they are not the same person is also a core doctrine right?

There's room for my interpretation.

 

https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrines-of-the-gospel-student-manual/chapter-9-the-atonement-of-jesus-christ?lang=eng

The wheel still works with a different hub, especially with the doctrines coming from Joseph Smith's Nauvoo period. It's heresy for sure, but it's still Mormonism.

 

[Ahab]

The world is our rotisserie.

And to be self-sufficient I suppose we should bring our own beef and charcoal and mushrooms to grill and smoke on our own fire. Oh and our own salt too, I suppose.