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Diversity In The Quorum Of The 12


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Robert Kirby is funny, and I like how he acknowledges that "God has His own ideas about diversification."

 

"The most difficult part of becoming an apostle would be shaving off my mustache. In case you haven't noticed, LDS apostles, despite being men, collectively sport less facial hair than Scarlett Johansson."  :rofl:

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I wish I or LDS members could put in names of our own for apostleship.  Seriously, here is a man that could bring any kind of mormon and then some to their knees with love, laughter and a whole lot of compassion and common sense.  Sometimes I think that the higher ups really do listen to him..he has a voice.  Hope they don't silence it.

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I wish I or LDS members could put in names of our own for apostleship.  Seriously, here is a man that could bring any kind of mormon and then some to their knees with love, laughter and a whole lot of compassion and common sense.  Sometimes I think that the higher ups really do listen to him..he has a voice.  Hope they don't silence it.

I agree, and I would vote for Robert Kirby to be advanced to the office of apostle.

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I wish I or LDS members could put in names of our own for apostleship.  Seriously, here is a man that could bring any kind of mormon and then some to their knees with love, laughter and a whole lot of compassion and common sense.  Sometimes I think that the higher ups really do listen to him..he has a voice. Hope they don't silence it. [Emphasis added by Kenngo1969.]

:rofl:

 

Oh.  You were serious, weren't you? :huh::unknw:

 

Sorry. :huh:

 

Somehow, despite the fact that Robert Kirby has been published in various venues over the years spouting opinions about which leadership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints might be ... :o ... ambivalent ...  he has, nonetheless, escaped the wrath of the Strengthening Church Members Strike Force (aka "Latter-day Danites").  I happen to have a mole in the SCMSF/LDD, and s/he tells me that Kirby's days are numbered: black-clad, jack-booted thugs operatives with automatic weapons are, at this very moment, planning an aerial insertion from a black helicopter via zip-line.  Oops. :huh:  Maybe I shouldn't have said that. Now, they'll probably be coming for me =@  :ph34r:.

 

Kate Kelly

Rock Waterman

Denver Snuffer

Robert Kirby

 

Let's play a game of "One of These People Isn't Like The Others." Can you guess which one it is? Here's a hint: One of them has presented at FAIRMormon.  Are 100% of the views of the lone FAIRMormon presenter on the above list 100% correlated, or  are they 100% in line with the mainstream majority of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?  Not likely.  (Candidly, though I don't always agree with him or her, that's a big part of what what makes that person so funny.)  So, what's the difference?  How come this person has escaped the notice of the SCMCSF/LDD all of these years?  The lone FAIRMormon presenter on that list has not come out in open opposition to the Church of Jesus Christ.  While s/he might, in passing, mention some views he has that might be somewhat at odds with a more "mainstream" take, s/he hasn't said, because of those views, that the Church of Jesus Christ is wrong/in apostasy/needs to repent, s/he hasn't attempted to attract a following of like-minded fellows, et cetera

 

S/he's in no danger of being "silenced," overwrought hystrionics to the contrary notwithstanding.  (No offense.)

Edited by Kenngo1969
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I know this is a more serious contribution than you were seeking, and if you feel it might take the thread in a direction you don't want it to go, I'll remove it.  That said, I want who the Lord wants.  If He wants an Elder Dube or an Elder Sitati, so be it.  But, unlike so many of His children, the Lord isn't interested in diversity for the sake of diversity.  I'd rather that the Quorum of the Twelve be One than that it be diverse.  As Elder Dallin H. Oaks said a few years ago:

 

Modern revelation does not say, “Be diverse; and if ye are not diverse, ye are not mine.” It says, “Be one; and if ye are not one ye are not mine” (D&C 38:27).

 

 

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2001/01/weightier-matters?lang=eng

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How is potential apostleship considered? I'm not questioning the revelation part.

 

I am not sure if I understand the question? 

 

In a worldwide body I don't think an individual is groomed to be an apostle.  I think individuals learn to serve, gain experience, and are called to progressively higher callings.  I think there was a time when I was very idealistic and assumed that every apostle and prophet were the most righteous men on the earth.  Nowadays I tend to think that each have a degree of righteousness, but they may and may not be holy individuals.  I recognize holiness in those individuals that act righteously when no one is looking.  Give me the woman that puts in her two mites and has overwhelming faith in the Lord to provide than all the leaders in the world. 

 

Our leaders are called for diverse reasons.  Some are outstanding administrators while others are great examples of charity, or speaking, or whatever good quality you can think of.  They are called to serve.  What makes them special is that they are willing to serve when so many others are not.  Make sense?

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My guess is Kim Clark and Donald Hallstrom.

Is that inappropriate ? 

Aren't we all silently guessing ? Is it ok to have some innocent fun with it?

The last one I guessed correctly was Elder Christofferson.

I think everybody knew Elder Holland would eventually be called.

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I am not sure if I understand the question? 

 

In a worldwide body I don't think an individual is groomed to be an apostle.  I think individuals learn to serve, gain experience, and are called to progressively higher callings.  I think there was a time when I was very idealistic and assumed that every apostle and prophet were the most righteous men on the earth.  Nowadays I tend to think that each have a degree of righteousness, but they may and may not be holy individuals.  I recognize holiness in those individuals that act righteously when no one is looking.  Give me the woman that puts in her two mites and has overwhelming faith in the Lord to provide than all the leaders in the world. 

 

Our leaders are called for diverse reasons.  Some are outstanding administrators while others are great examples of charity, or speaking, or whatever good quality you can think of.  They are called to serve.  What makes them special is that they are willing to serve when so many others are not.  Make sense?

Let me try this differently. What draws the revelatory process to an individual who has the potential to be an apostle?

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I suspect it is like any other calling, various percentages of inspiration, perspiration, and relation.

 

Likely men who have proven their faithfulness and talent are probably considered out of the general quorums.  The brethren consider their talents and ability, then pray about the candidates.  If they do not receive a revelation in the affirmative or negative about a particular candidate they probably return to discussing and praying.

 

I don't see why the study, pray, and council method of revelation used in all other aspects of our religious organization would not be the same for calling an Apostle.

 

Then again perhaps Moroni drops into the Holy of Holies and toots his horn when the next Apostle walks by?

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:rofl:

 

Oh.  You were serious, weren't you? :huh::unknw:

 

Sorry. :huh:

 

Somehow, despite the fact that Robert Kirby has been published in various venues over the years spouting opinions about which leadership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints might be ... :o ... ambivalent ...  he has, nonetheless, escaped the wrath of the Strengthening Church Members Strike Force (aka "Latter-day Danites").  I happen to have a mole in the SCMSF/LDD, and s/he tells me that Kirby's days are numbered: black-clad, jack-booted thugs operatives with automatic weapons are, at this very moment, planning an aerial insertion from a black helicopter via zip-line.  Oops. :huh:  Maybe I shouldn't have said that. Now, they'll probably be coming for me =@  :ph34r:.

 

Kate Kelly

Rock Waterman

Denver Snuffer

Robert Kirby

 

Let's play a game of "One of These People Isn't Like The Others." Can you guess which one it is? Here's a hint: One of them has presented at FAIRMormon.  Are 100% of the views of the lone FAIRMormon presenter on the above list 100% correlated, or  are they 100% in line with the mainstream majority of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?  Not likely.  (Candidly, though I don't always agree with him or her, that's a big part of what what makes that person so funny.)  So, what's the difference?  How come this person has escaped the notice of the SCMCSF/LDD all of these years?  The lone FAIRMormon presenter on that list has not come out in open opposition to the Church of Jesus Christ.  While s/he might, in passing, mention some views he has that might be somewhat at odds with a more "mainstream" take, s/he hasn't said, because of those views, that the Church of Jesus Christ is wrong/in apostasy/needs to repent, s/he hasn't attempted to attract a following of like-minded fellows, et cetera

 

S/he's in no danger of being "silenced," overwrought hystrionics to the contrary notwithstanding.  (No offense.)

 

Way ahead of you..me thinks that Kirby's days are numbered..that is why I don't want him silenced.  I don't want them to let him go because my family listens to him and laugh..and still maintain their loyal membership.  He helps families understand where postmos are coming from.  You know..just maybe, he has saved some families from rejecting eachother.  Actually, I expected him long gone way before now.  I wanted him part of a community program in Tooele County with a stand up routine and kind of a roast on Tooele County..but no way..that was put down like crazy..go figure.

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Way ahead of you..me thinks that Kirby's days are numbered..that is why I don't want him silenced.  I don't want them to let him go because my family listens to him and laugh..and still maintain their loyal membership.  He helps families understand where postmos are coming from.  You know..just maybe, he has saved some families from rejecting eachother.  Actually, I expected him long gone way before now.  I wanted him part of a community program in Tooele County with a stand up routine and kind of a roast on Tooele County..but no way..that was put down like crazy..go figure.

 

In what way do you think his days are numbered?  I know his wife is no longer a member of the Church, and he has discussed this quite a bit; but I'm not detecting anything that would indicate that he intends to leave the Church? 

 

Or do you think his Priesthood leaders will find his writing somehow "apostate" and/or in opposition to the Church?  If that's it, I'm not seeing it--at all.

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I am not sure if I understand the question? 

 

In a worldwide body I don't think an individual is groomed to be an apostle.  I think individuals learn to serve, gain experience, and are called to progressively higher callings.  I think there was a time when I was very idealistic and assumed that every apostle and prophet were the most righteous men on the earth.  Nowadays I tend to think that each have a degree of righteousness, but they may and may not be holy individuals.  I recognize holiness in those individuals that act righteously when no one is looking.  Give me the woman that puts in her two mites and has overwhelming faith in the Lord to provide than all the leaders in the world. 

 

Our leaders are called for diverse reasons.  Some are outstanding administrators while others are great examples of charity, or speaking, or whatever good quality you can think of.  They are called to serve.  What makes them special is that they are willing to serve when so many others are not.  Make sense?

Some of them because their rich...I don't know why..but a lot of them are well off.  No Joe Blow Farmer.

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Some of them because their rich...I don't know why..but a lot of them are well off.  No Joe Blow Farmer.

 

Being rich has nothing to do with grooming to be a General Authority of the Church; you are stretching and confusing the issue.  Successful people, those individuals who have worked hard, worked smart at various occupations and found financial rewards does allow some individuals to devote large amounts to time to other pursuits.  In addition, I have found successful people that are faithful, hopeful, charitable, loving, compassionate, just, and humble make great leaders.  Conversely, I have found those people that have not been successful, in debt to their eyeballs, lacking in faith, charity, patience, love, and compassion to be incapable of leading others both in the corporate world and in a ward family, much less being a General Authority. 

 

For some reason I think this screams of being easy to recognize, but some individuals are so hypersensitive about wealth they paint all people as evil that are successful.  

 

On the flip side, I find hard working men that have not been as financial successful find it difficult to devote such a large proportion of their time to church service.  They serve, but just not as much.   

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  • 3 weeks later...

Likely men who have proven their faithfulness and talent are probably considered out of the general quorums.  The brethren consider their talents and ability, then pray about the candidates.  If they do not receive a revelation in the affirmative or negative about a particular candidate they probably return to discussing and praying.

 

Must it be a unanimous choice (ie. vote) or will a majority suffice?

 

 

Then again perhaps Moroni drops into the Holy of Holies and toots his horn when the next Apostle walks by?

 

Do Mormon temples have an area considered the Holy of Holies?  Where did the idea of Moroni

having a horn (as seen on the temple) come from?

 

Thanks,

Jim

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I volunteer to be this Generation's Porter Rockwell.......

I volunteer to be this generation's Donny Osmond. I can't sing and dance that well, but I do have an awesome sister, I like purple (socks?), and I did once sleep at a Holiday Inn.

Edited by hagoth7
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 Where did the idea of Moroni

having a horn (as seen on the temple) come from?

 

Thanks,

Jim

http://www.deseretnews.com/top/2075/0/20-little-known-facts-about-the-Mormon-Angel-Moroni-statue-.html

"Why does the statue hold a trumpet?

"The trumpet, which is held in Moroni's right hand, symbolizes the spreading of the gospel and the Second Coming of the Savior. In Matthew 24:31, it states that the angels with trumpets will gather the righteous together for the coming of the Lord. Every statue of the Angel Moroni atop a temple has this symbol."

Source: New Era magazine

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Let me try this differently. What draws the revelatory process to an individual who has the potential to be an apostle?

 

My NSHO is that anyone who relies on the process of personal revelation,regularly, in their own lives would have no problem with the revelatory process.

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