Interesting Oped In The Trib - Progressive Mormonism

[JLHPROF]

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/2735147-155/op-ed-what-do-progressive-mormons-want

 

So according to this article progressives are less likely to accept:

(1) obedience to authority above personal inspiration

(2) the LDS Church's unique restoration claims

(3) literal interpretations of scripture

(4) strict traditional observances (i.e. Sabbath observance, modesty, tattoos, Word of Wisdom, etc.)

(5) the unquestioned authority of the leaders of the LDS Church.

 

and Progressives want the Church to:

1. Increase gender equality

2. Apologize for the racist past and mistreatment of LGBT members

3. Accept married gay couples at all levels

4. Permit members to openly question the authority, teachings and decisions of LDS Church leadership

5. Provide financial transparency in the use of tithes

6. Address the mistakes of polygamy and de-canonize Doctrine & Covenants 132

7. Teach the truth and troubling facts of church history (specifically surrounding Joseph Smith)

8. Speak openly of Heavenly Mother

9. Use tithes and offerings more to help the poor and needy and less on capital projects (temples, churches, commercial buildings, etc.)

10. Stop excommunicating people for openly questioning or expressing doubts

 

So while I am very clearly NOT a progressive, I have two questions for the board:

1. Do you consider this article accurate - which points are and which points are not?

2. Do you consider these ideas and ideals to be in keeping with the restored gospel and scripture and if not, what is the source of such ideas and ideals?

 

There are a few that I can agree with, and quite a few that I vehemently disagree with.  So, discuss!

[canard78]

Some other names that have been applied to people with these attitudes:

- Middle way Mormons

- Liberal Mormons

- Mormons in name only

- Cafeteria Mormons

Obviously some of these are self-adopted descriptions and others are labels assigned by others.

[Calm]

"10. Stop excommunicating people for openly questioning or expressing doubts"

They have to start before they can stop.

What I've seen in cases that were reported by the individual was not doubt, but disbelief.

[TheSkepticChristian]

and Progressives want the Church to:

1. Increase gender equality

 

The LDS priesthood position not sexist, the Kelly movement is simply ridiculous, and distracts from more important issues.

 

 

3. Accept married gay couples at all levels!

 

and what is wrong with allowing gay couples to adopt? 

 

 

So according to this article progressives are less likely to accept:

(1) obedience to authority above personal inspiration

(2) the LDS Church's unique restoration claims

(3) literal interpretations of scripture

(4) strict traditional observances (i.e. Sabbath observance, modesty, tattoos, Word of Wisdom, etc.)

(5) the unquestioned authority of the leaders of the LDS Church.

 

and conservative LDS are less likely to accept 

1. Evolution 

2. Big Bang 

3. Other important Scientific Theories that I am not allowed to mention.

Edited July 19, 2015 by TheSkepticChristian

[thesometimesaint]

Not really; it sounds more like a smorgasbord of complaints. I consider myself very progressive.

 

(1) obedience to authority above personal inspiration.

We are all required to get our own testimony of what is said.

 

(2) the LDS Church's unique restoration claims.

I have no problem with our unique restoration claims.

 

(3) literal interpretations of scripture.

We don't have a literal interpretation of the scriptures.

 

(4) strict traditional observances (i.e. Sabbath observance, modesty, tattoos, Word of Wisdom, etc.)

I don't believe those things are all that strict.

 

(5) the unquestioned authority of the leaders of the LDS Church.

Who ever said that doesn't know many Church members.

[ALarson]

What I've seen in cases that were reported by the individual was not doubt, but disbelief.

I think it was even more than just disbelief.  From what I've seen, the leaders leave those alone who still attend but no longer believe.

[Avatar4321]

I'm not a progressive anything. So I can't tell you if that is at all accurate

[ALarson]

There are a few that I can agree with, and quite a few that I vehemently disagree with.  So, discuss!

I would probably be considered a progressive Mormon, but what you stated above also describes how I feel about your list (if you omit the word "vehemently", but I do disagree with several).

 

However, I am an active, temple recommend holding leader in our ward.  I have also never been dishonest in any interview with my Bishop or Stake President, so they know my beliefs and thoughts.  

[JLHPROF]

I would probably be considered a progressive Mormon, but what you stated above also describes how I feel about your list (if you omit the word "vehemently", but I do disagree with several).

 

However, I am an active, temple recommend holding leader in our ward.  I have also never been dishonest in any interview with my Bishop or Stake President, so they know my beliefs and thoughts.  

 

To be clear, not my list.  Taken verbatim from the article.

 

And I stand by the word vehemently for my objection to #'s 3 & 6 in the progressive goals list.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/2735147-155/op-ed-what-do-progressive-mormons-want

 

and Progressives want the Church to:

1. Increase gender equality

2. Apologize for the racist past and mistreatment of LGBT members

3. Accept married gay couples at all levels

4. Permit members to openly question the authority, teachings and decisions of LDS Church leadership

5. Provide financial transparency in the use of tithes

6. Address the mistakes of polygamy and de-canonize Doctrine & Covenants 132

7. Teach the truth and troubling facts of church history (specifically surrounding Joseph Smith)

8. Speak openly of Heavenly Mother

9. Use tithes and offerings more to help the poor and needy and less on capital projects (temples, churches, commercial buildings, etc.)

10. Stop excommunicating people for openly questioning or expressing doubts

I am Conservative, not LDS, but I believe in the Restoration, so take my opinion for what it is worth:

#1 I think there are more ways that women could be involved in the operations of the church without giving them the Priesthood. The same thing could be said for other Restoration churches.

#2 I think recognizing the ban as a fault of history and being more apologetic about it would be a good thing.

#5 I believe that the financial records could be a little more open.

#7 Being more open about historical controversies would be good- and the church is doing better.

#9 Agreed. Much more could be done using church resources for the poor and needy.

[ALarson]

To be clear, not my list.  Taken verbatim from the article.

I realize that and should have written "the list" instead of "your list".  Thanks for the clarification though

[sethpayne]

#1 I think there are more ways that women could be involved in the operations of the church without giving them the Priesthood. The same thing could be said for other Restoration churches.

#2 I think recognizing the ban as a fault of history and being more apologetic about it would be a good thing.

#5 I believe that the financial records could be a little more open.

#7 Being more open about historical controversies would be good- and the church is doing better.

#9 Agreed. Much more could be done using church resources for the poor and needy.

 

Amen, and amen.  

Edited July 19, 2015 by sethpayne

[cinepro]

I doubt there are many active LDS members who subscribe to all of these positions.  It's most likely a composite list of the most frequently held concerns.  Heck, most people on this board agree that the Church needs to adopt a less literal interpretation of certain scriptural stories (Noah's Flood, Tower of Babel, separation of the continents after Noah's flood etc.)

 

But this one:

 

4. Permit members to openly question the authority, teachings and decisions of LDS Church leadership

 

Ummmm...no way.  I hope to live a long time, but I don't expect to ever live long enough to see members permitted to "openly question" the authority, teachings and decisions of LDS Church leadership.

[Mark Beesley]

I think someone is confused about what it means to make progress, so far as the Lord is concerned. Progressing does not mean making it easier to keep the commandments by diluting them. It means humbling yourself to the point where you can surrender your agency to the Lord, and become one with Him, as President Packer did. It is completely different from being a political progressive, but confusion is one of Satan's weapons.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Mark Beesley

[Teancum]

As much as I wish it were the LDS church is not progressive. Not does it welcome such things. I once thought maybe i could help it change. How foolish of me. It is a top down authoritarian dogmatics religion. One who agitates for change is likely to get kicked out . Just ask John Dehlin, Kate Kelly, the Calderwoods, Rock Waterman and others who are on their way to getting the boot. It does not matters if ypur agitation is liberal or more conservative. Challenging the status quo in the LDS Church is just not welcome. Put up or shut up. If you have issues but want to stay just be quiet and smile.

[canard78]

It might be worth clarifying that the list of changes was based on her polling various forums (probably badly and with a skewed sample). It's not her list, it's the top requests from her research.

[Avatar4321]

As much as I wish it were the LDS church is not progressive. Not does it welcome such things. I once thought maybe i could help it change. How foolish of me. It is a top down authoritarian dogmatics religion. One who agitates for change is likely to get kicked out . Just ask John Dehlin, Kate Kelly, the Calderwoods, Rock Waterman and others who are on their way to getting the boot. It does not matters if ypur agitation is liberal or more conservative. Challenging the status quo in the LDS Church is just not welcome. Put up or shut up. If you have issues but want to stay just be quiet and smile.

The Lord doesn't expect us to change the Church. He expects us to change ourselves.

[carbon dioxide]

The Lord doesn't expect us to change the Church. He expects us to change ourselves.

It is easier to change the Church so it can conform to our desires. 

[carbon dioxide]

 

and Progressives want the Church to:

3. Accept married gay couples at all levels

6. Address the mistakes of polygamy and de-canonize Doctrine & Covenants 132

So are they saying the Church should accept gay marriage but say polygamy and eternal marriage and exaltation are wrong?   Right is wrong and wrong is right.  I say let them join the Community of Christ Church.  Much of what they are asking is already there. 

[carbon dioxide]

As much as I wish it were the LDS church is not progressive. Not does it welcome such things. I once thought maybe i could help it change. How foolish of me. It is a top down authoritarian dogmatics religion. One who agitates for change is likely to get kicked out . Just ask John Dehlin, Kate Kelly, the Calderwoods, Rock Waterman and others who are on their way to getting the boot. It does not matters if ypur agitation is liberal or more conservative. Challenging the status quo in the LDS Church is just not welcome. Put up or shut up. If you have issues but want to stay just be quiet and smile.

I think its a good thing.  Why should a select group of agitators decide for the rest of us what the Church teaches.  They can go start their own church or group while those who like the Church as it is can still have the church as it is.  If the Lord wants to make a change I am fine with it.  I respect the Lord and his right to make changes.  But Kate Kelly, John Dehlin, and others?

[Jeanne]

I read this article this morning and thought..finally a realistic an unbiased article in a Trib that everyone would agree with.  Silly me..I am really surprised.  I thought it was a good take..thorough and non threatening.  President Monson will need some inspiration here as to what the best way is to proceed in light of all the questions/observations in this article.  The church of course believes in this inspiration but there are some good points here in the reality of perceptions and demographics of its membership.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Jeanne

[carbon dioxide]

I read this article this morning and thought..finally a realistic an unbiased article in a Trib that everyone would agree with.  Silly me..I am really surprised.  I thought it was a good take..thorough and non threatening.  President Monson will need some inspiration here as to what the best way is to proceed in light of all the questions/observations in this article.  The church of course believes in this inspiration but there are some good points here in the reality of perceptions and demographics of its membership.

I don't think much inspiration is needed if the issues presented are on the table. D&C 132 stays where it is.  No need to apologize for polygamy.  Gay marriage is always wrong.  Women get the priesthood if the Lord decides that to be the case on his own timetable.   Blacks have the priesthood.  Enough has been said on it.  Time to move on.  The Church may make changes in practice to suit the times but the core doctrines can't be changed. 

[carbon dioxide]

So while I am very clearly NOT a progressive, I have two questions for the board:

1. Do you consider this article accurate - which points are and which points are not?

2. Do you consider these ideas and ideals to be in keeping with the restored gospel and scripture and if not, what is the source of such ideas and ideals?

 

There are a few that I can agree with, and quite a few that I vehemently disagree with.  So, discuss!

For the vast majority in the Church, there are not big issues.  There will always be a few people in a large group that will advocate extreme ideas but they are the outliers.  Most of the ideas present I consider to be opposed to the restored gospel.  Some are no big deal.  Transparency on tithing is not a big deal for example.

[JAHS]

Some other names that have been applied to people with these attitudes:

- Middle way Mormons

- Liberal Mormons

- Mormons in name only

- Cafeteria Mormons

Obviously some of these are self-adopted descriptions and others are labels assigned by others.

 

Are the socalled New Order Mormons considered part of this group?

[CV75]

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/2735147-155/op-ed-what-do-progressive-mormons-want

 

So while I am very clearly NOT a progressive, I have two questions for the board:

1. Do you consider this article accurate - which points are and which points are not?

2. Do you consider these ideas and ideals to be in keeping with the restored gospel and scripture and if not, what is the source of such ideas and ideals?

As far as accuracy goes, I think that loose definitions typically aren’t well thought out, and that those who crave defining themselves in loose terms are foolish virgins seeking a sense of belonging without having to do the work to accept the invitation to something better. Aside from the loose definition, the lists decribe folks that focus on and act for the short term, and become dissapointed with what they reap in the long term.

 

I think there have always been people holding these characteristics, expectations and ideas, but that the recent developments in media technology have facilitated their finding each other and broadly publishing their issues under the mistaken impression that they are new and progressive.

 

As an op-ed, it is understandably biased.

Edited July 20, 2015 by CV75