My Sunday: That Meeting About You Know, Marriage Things?

[tonie]

I understand the other topic is locked. I do not intend for much discussion or debate in this thread. I just wanted to share my experience with the letter.

 

The Units presiding authority read the letter. He started by saying that he has struggled with it. A family member of his died of AIDS. He related that the we all have a conscience to know right and wrong. He, though, being a Common Judge in Israel, must apply justice and mercy.  He read the letter. He essentially moderated a discussion about the letter that took the remainder of the time.

 

Highlights of his comments:

 

• I am not calling for battle lines. I am calling for discipleship.
• We are all children of our Heavenly Father, we do not need to separate into factions.
• Fortify yourself, do not build a fortess.
• The Saints went to Utah to establish the Church and send the message out to the world.
• Cleanse your inner vessel; be filled with the words of eternal life. Help others cleanse and fill theirs.

 

General comments:

 

• The direction (letter) helps us to become more like Christ. Christ dined with sinners but did not partake of their sins.
• Our oppurtunity to be even more a beckon to the world.
• As with the harlot taken to Christ and as He stated "Who is without sin cast the first stone"; are we pointing fingers or evaluating our lives
• Support the message and messengers (Prophets and Apostles). We must extend the hand of fellowship and by the extension of Christs love.

 

Other comments centered around chastity, no sexual relations. All who are worthy are entitled to be called to serve in callings, and hold Temple Recommends.  A half-dozen or so in the room provided that a sibling is gay.   It was a great meeting, and to be honest quite suprising - nothing political was brought. The discussion was centered around the Gospel and teachings of Christ.

 

 

[Calm]

Nice report, thank you.

[Kenngo1969]

Nice report, thank you.

Indeed.  X2.   We've had our disagreements, tonie, and we're sure to have more (but don't worry; I subscribe to the old axiom that if two people are of exactly the same mind on absolutely everything, one of them is unnecessary, and I certainly don't think you're unnecessary! ), but credit where its due.  (And credit to your leaders for cultivating the Spirit in the meeting; that's how these kinds of sensitive issues are to be addressed.)

[tonie]

 

Nice report, thank you.

Indeed.  X2.   We've had our disagreements, tonie, and we're sure to have more (but don't worry; I subscribe to the old axiom that if two people are of exactly the same mind on absolutely everything, one of them is unnecessary, and I certainly don't think you're unnecessary! ), but credit where its due.  (And credit to your leaders for cultivating the Spirit in the meeting; that's how these kinds of sensitive issues are to be addressed.)

 

 

Thanks. 

 

I told the person next to me "This was a great meeting, I wish others I discuss with online could of had the same exeperience."   

[cinepro]

Interesting. My ward combined the adults into the chapel at the beginning of the third hour. A member of the bishopric read the letter, asked if there were any question (no) and we dismissed for classes.

The youth had a separate meeting, and by all accounts, it was equally uneventful.

[Kenngo1969]

 

...  We've had our disagreements, tonie, and we're sure to have more (but don't worry; I subscribe to the old axiom that if two people are of exactly the same mind on absolutely everything, one of them is unnecessary, and I certainly don't think you're unnecessary! ), but credit where its due.  (And credit to your leaders for cultivating the Spirit in the meeting; that's how these kinds of sensitive issues are to be addressed.)

 

 

Thanks. 

 

I told the person next to me "This was a great meeting, I wish others I discuss with online could of had the same exeperience."   

 

I hope I haven't been uncivil in my discourse on the topic, and that I haven't offended anyone.  If I have been uncivil or if I have offended anyone, I certainly apologize.  

[stemelbow]

My report:

My bishop read the letter in Priesthood. he knows of my opinion on the matter and I doubt anyone else there really has views similar to my own. He read it and asked, quickly, any questions? Ok, then, let's dismiss. Fine by me. No need to upset anyone with me sharing my ideas.

Our RS president read it in RS. She said before she read it. "no questions or comments...please. If you have any take them to the bishop." She read it, and they moved on. While I was fine with it, my wife was less pleased as she wanted a bit of a discussion.

They gathered the youth together during these meetings, read the letter, then proceeded, as the account from my son had it, to preach pretty offensive things about gay people, generally. After church, my son came home quiet and upset. I asked him what's up. We sat and chatted for a good 45 mins before he had to go with the bishop to visit some ill members. He said he just sat quietly while leaders, who outnumbered the youth, kept saying some pretty offensive things like--it's just a fad these days...they can help their attraction...it's their choice...it's so different from the gay issue because black people are born that way (my son is half black/half white, he felt that was somehow added for him, but also knowing gay people are born that way too)...you can't be a part of an org that supports SSM...and other such things. he used the term "evil" to describe the pounding messages and felt very uncomfortable.

Anyway, they are aware my wife and I have something to say about the way it was handled for the youth. We are probably the only parents who care, but the way it came to us sounds just pathetic. Scheduled apt for Tuesday. I know my bishop will be annoyed with us for "causing a stir" or whatever, but they need to know. Our biggest problem is, even if our boy is exaggerating what was said and how it came off, we weren't notified and thus can't help him properly because we don't know what exactly was said or how it was presented. We would have loved to be there--way more important to us then sitting in boring rote lessons.

[KevinG]

Wow Stemelbow...  That is sad.

 

It is one thing to editorialize on a board like this.  It is another all together to take a letter from the First Presidency, and editorialize in front of the Youth.

 

That is a meeting that should have included parents if they planned to say more or less than what was in the letter.

 

Tell you son he's not alone in the Church among those of us who are trying to understand and love our gay brothers and sisters, while not endorsing acting sinfully.  

[stemelbow]

Wow Stemelbow...  That is sad.

 

It is one thing to editorialize on a board like this.  It is another all together to take a letter from the First Presidency, and editorialize in front of the Youth.

 

That is a meeting that should have included parents if they planned to say more or less than what was in the letter.

 

Tell you son he's not alone in the Church among those of us who are trying to understand and love our gay brothers and sisters, while not endorsing acting sinfully.

Yeah..>Thanks. In a way, it's ok because we have great conversations at home. But in another way I hate that my son is sitting in Church upset and feeling silenced while ignorance is being thrown at him. A gay friend of mine notified some of his social media LDS friends that sometimes the way he's treated pushes him away more than makes him feel valued or loved. My son feels similar in that he doesn't feel like it's good to be a part of something that is so dogmatic, and the cause of enmity in families and friendships. Sadly, I think he has a point.

[Calm]

I have been in a few wards that I did not feel a part of, but there are plenty of wards where there was no sense of closed doors for whatever reason. I hope you explain that the issue may be more related to the local community and not the organization as a whole, that the Church is not one ward in one place and time but the entirety of the membership, past, present, and future with Christ as our leader. And that is what he belongs to if he wishes. If one endures the obstacles and continues to seek God, one will eventually find oneself able to shout from the rooftops with the support of fellow saints who have also endured and learned through their desire to become one with the Lord what the Gospel is all about.

Your son won't be the same person, but then all of us will be needing to continue change if we want to be part of God's work as it moves forward.

[stemelbow]

I have been in a few wards that I did not feel a part of, but there are plenty of wards where there was no sense of closed doors for whatever reason. I hope you explain that the issue may be more related to the local community and not the organization as a whole, that the Church is not one ward in one place and time but the entirety of the membership, past, present, and future with Christ as our leader. And that is what he belongs to if he wishes. If one endures the obstacles and continues to seek God, one will eventually find oneself able to shout from the rooftops with the support of fellow saints who have also endured and learned through their desire to become one with the Lord what the Gospel is all about.

Your son won't be the same person, but then all of us will be needing to continue change if we want to be part of God's work as it moves forward.

Thanks for you thoughts, Cal. I think we're pretty much in agreement with you on how to handle this, but surely any insight offered is very much appreciated. I certainly always want to communicate and handle issues effectively with my children and all those who I deal with. The more input the better for me.

[Meadowchik]

My report:

My bishop read the letter in Priesthood. he knows of my opinion on the matter and I doubt anyone else there really has views similar to my own. He read it and asked, quickly, any questions? Ok, then, let's dismiss. Fine by me. No need to upset anyone with me sharing my ideas.

Our RS president read it in RS. She said before she read it. "no questions or comments...please. If you have any take them to the bishop." She read it, and they moved on. While I was fine with it, my wife was less pleased as she wanted a bit of a discussion.

They gathered the youth together during these meetings, read the letter, then proceeded, as the account from my son had it, to preach pretty offensive things about gay people, generally. After church, my son came home quiet and upset. I asked him what's up. We sat and chatted for a good 45 mins before he had to go with the bishop to visit some ill members. He said he just sat quietly while leaders, who outnumbered the youth, kept saying some pretty offensive things like--it's just a fad these days...they can help their attraction...it's their choice...it's so different from the gay issue because black people are born that way (my son is half black/half white, he felt that was somehow added for him, but also knowing gay people are born that way too)...you can't be a part of an org that supports SSM...and other such things. he used the term "evil" to describe the pounding messages and felt very uncomfortable.

Anyway, they are aware my wife and I have something to say about the way it was handled for the youth. We are probably the only parents who care, but the way it came to us sounds just pathetic. Scheduled apt for Tuesday. I know my bishop will be annoyed with us for "causing a stir" or whatever, but they need to know. Our biggest problem is, even if our boy is exaggerating what was said and how it came off, we weren't notified and thus can't help him properly because we don't know what exactly was said or how it was presented. We would have loved to be there--way more important to us then sitting in boring rote lessons.

 

Wow!

 

The Church has said that it is not a choice!

 

The Church has said members can support the legalisation of same-sex marriage and remain in good standing!

 

I've always opposed ssm, but this report is disappointing!

[stemelbow]

Wow!

 

The Church has said that it is not a choice!

 

The Church has said members can support the legalisation of same-sex marriage and remain in good standing!

 

I've always opposed ssm, but this report is disappointing!

Exactly.

[Meadowchik]

No one read a letter in my ward, we are not in America

 

However I really love the comments by tonie's bishop.  And last week I made a meme:

 

[bluebell]

Our bishop released all of the primary children to the primary room right after sacrament (where they were tended by the primary presidency) and everyone stayed in the chapel where the letter was read.  There was no commentary at all and as soon as it was finished we were dismissed.  I'm guessing that he read it to the primary presidency before church during ward council or something.

 

I don't know if this happened with other youth during the third hour but my husband is an advisor to the Teachers quorum and their priesthood lesson was going over the letter page by page and discussing it.  He said it was fine and no one had any big questions or issues that he was aware of.

[rpn]

I cannot imagine how leaders think it alright to editorialize with children separate from their parents.   I hope you urge your child to write what he experienced and how that is the very thing the letter and all the counsel of the brethren is intended to stop, and send a copy to the leaders who did it, the bishop, and the stake president, and maybe, depending on the SP response, the Area Authority and a FYI to the First Presidency.  

 

Somehow those leaders need to reconcile what they have done with the teens, because it is wrong and potential for great negative effects.

 

Your son can also speak up with his friends about it.

 

(Although as steamed as I am at his report, I do know that sometimes kids do interrupt actions/conversations differently than intended, so I would ask the leaders what transpired before speaking even with the bishop.)

[mnn727]

We h ad ours in the Sunday School hour, everyone except Primary was there, Bishop and Counselors read the letter and the online Q and A but did not take any questions.

Said if we had any questions or concerns to: 1 Pray about it 2 See the Bishop, if necessary he will have you see the Stake President.

I thought it went very well.

 

A few of us discussed it a bit before High Priest Group started, consensuses was it was one of 'The Signs of the Times"

[Calm]

No one read a letter in my ward, we are not in America

 

However I really love the comments by tonie's bishop.  And last week I made a meme:

 

Wow, a meme that I actually like and agree with.  Well done.  

Edited July 13, 2015 by calmoriah

[Meadowchik]

Wow, a meme that I actually like and agree with.  Well done.  

 

Thank you.  The truth is, I am too lazy to write an entire blog post most of the time

[Zakuska]

I understand the other topic is locked. I do not intend for much discussion or debate in this thread. I just wanted to share my experience with the letter.

 

The Units presiding authority read the letter. He started by saying that he has struggled with it. A family member of his died of AIDS. He related that the we all have a conscience to know right and wrong. He, though, being a Common Judge in Israel, must apply justice and mercy.  He read the letter. He essentially moderated a discussion about the letter that took the remainder of the time.

 

Highlights of his comments:

 

• I am not calling for battle lines. I am calling for discipleship.
• We are all children of our Heavenly Father, we do not need to separate into factions.
• Fortify yourself, do not build a fortess.
• The Saints went to Utah to establish the Church and send the message out to the world.
• Cleanse your inner vessel; be filled with the words of eternal life. Help others cleanse and fill theirs.

 

General comments:

 

• The direction (letter) helps us to become more like Christ. Christ dined with sinners but did not partake of their sins.
• Our oppurtunity to be even more a beckon to the world.
• As with the harlot taken to Christ and as He stated "Who is without sin cast the first stone"; are we pointing fingers or evaluating our lives
• Support the message and messengers (Prophets and Apostles). We must extend the hand of fellowship and by the extension of Christs love.

 

Other comments centered around chastity, no sexual relations. All who are worthy are entitled to be called to serve in callings, and hold Temple Recommends.  A half-dozen or so in the room provided that a sibling is gay.   It was a great meeting, and to be honest quite suprising - nothing political was brought. The discussion was centered around the Gospel and teachings of Christ.

 

The question we all must ask ourself is, Would Christ bake a cake or photograph the wedding?  

 

Would he consider that partaking in their sins. Would he condone celebrating and reveling in their sinful behavior?

 

I know in my own case those are the questions that I am wrestling with RE: SSM.

[ERayR]

The question we all must ask ourself is, Would Christ bake a cake or photograph the wedding?  

 

Would he consider that partaking in their sins. Would he condone celebrating and reveling in their sinful behavior?

 

I know in my own case those are the questions that I am wrestling with RE: SSM.

 

The answer is that we really don't know the answer.  The answer we think we know is but a projection of our own paradigm.

[cinepro]

The question we all must ask ourself is, Would Christ bake a cake or photograph the wedding?  

 

Would he consider that partaking in their sins. Would he condone celebrating and reveling in their sinful behavior?

 

I know in my own case those are the questions that I am wrestling with RE: SSM.

 

I don't see how baking a cake for a same-sex wedding would be any worse then providing wine for a wedding.

[HappyJackWagon]

I don't see how baking a cake for a same-sex wedding would be any worse then providing wine for a wedding.

It's different because some sins are really only policy failures while other sins are ABOMINATIONS that will destroy our entire civilization...just like the Romans   See the difference?

[thatjimguy]

What are the ideas of the non religious reasons that ssm would collapse civilization?

[california boy]

It's different because some sins are really only policy failures while other sins are ABOMINATIONS that will destroy our entire civilization...just like the Romans   See the difference?

Lol. You do realize that the Roman Empire lasted over 1000 years. They were at their very height of power when homosexuality was a part of their culture. One would have an easier time blaming the adoption of Christianity as their downfall.