Mystery Meat Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 Either Mitt or Bishop Causse is my official prediction. (I am not sure it is appropriate to make predictions, but well, I just did)
thesometimesaint Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 I would sustain Mitt Romney and Harry Reid as Apostles of the Church. Voting for them as political candidates is another question. 4
Popular Post Scott Lloyd Posted June 1, 2015 Popular Post Posted June 1, 2015 Either Mitt or Bishop Causse is my official prediction. (I am not sure it is appropriate to make predictions, but well, I just did)No more inappropriate than people declaring on their own authority that it's time someone of color be called to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. I would be just as happy as anyone if that happened. But tokenism has no place in the Kingdom of God. 8
Popular Post HappyJackWagon Posted June 1, 2015 Popular Post Posted June 1, 2015 No more inappropriate than people declaring on their own authority that it's time someone of color be called to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. I would be just as happy as anyone if that happened. But tokenism has no place in the Kingdom of God.Sometimes it takes 1 break from the mold to get people thinking and considering things in a different way. 1 black, polynesian, asian, hispanic apostle suddenly reinforces the idea that 1- this is a worldwide church and not everything is Utah/USA centric 2- nonwhites are just as worthy to serve. The first may be seen as a "token" but it doesn't mean it's wrong. 6
sethpayne Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 Sometimes it takes 1 break from the mold to get people thinking and considering things in a different way. 1 black, polynesian, asian, hispanic apostle suddenly reinforces the idea that 1- this is a worldwide church and not everything is Utah/USA centric 2- nonwhites are just as worthy to serve. The first may be seen as a "token" but it doesn't mean it's wrong. Given that more than 1/2 of members reside outside of the United States I would hardly label a non-US Apostle as "token." Scott's comment is odd given that US Mormons are now a MINORITY in the Church. 2
JLHPROF Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 Given that more than 1/2 of members reside outside of the United States I would hardly label a non-US Apostle as "token." Scott's comment is odd given that US Mormons are now a MINORITY in the Church. His point is valid. The apostle should be the one God chooses, regardless of where he is from.It is not a political, administrative, or elected position. It is whoever God wants to hold the priesthood keys.Majority, minority, experience, etc may matter to mortals, but God is the one choosing. 4
Avatar4321 Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 I would sustain Mitt Romney and Harry Reid as Apostles of the Church. Voting for them as political candidates is another question.The real test is whether you would accept apostle Glenn beck lol 1
Calm Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 So how long is the process usually before there is an announcement? Does one wait until the next conference...memory is glitching out at the moment.
Avatar4321 Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 Usually not till conference. Sometimes longer though not in recent history
thesometimesaint Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 His point is valid. The apostle should be the one God chooses, regardless of where he is from.It is not a political, administrative, or elected position. It is whoever God wants to hold the priesthood keys.Majority, minority, experience, etc may matter to mortals, but God is the one choosing. Ideally that is true. But in this old world If the leadership of the Church was limited to just a direct first son of a High Priest of Levi, It is doubtful we'd be outside of a small band of sheep/goat herders wondering in the Sinai desert.
thesometimesaint Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 The real test is whether you would accept apostle Glenn beck lol I'd probably have to swallow real hard to do it but I would. IE; I sustained ETB as an Apostle. 1
HappyJackWagon Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 Ideally that is true. But in this old world If the leadership of the Church was limited to just a direct first son of a High Priest of Levi, It is doubtful we'd be outside of a small band of sheep/goat herders wondering in the Sinai desert.As was recently discussed on the Word of Wisdom thread, there are many factors that play into revelation. It is rarely a "voice of God" audible/visual kind of revelation but rather consideration of many factors in council
sandude Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 The call sometimes comes from unexpected places. Howard W. Hunter was the President of the Pasadena California Stake prior to being called to the twelve.
Scott Lloyd Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 Given that more than 1/2 of members reside outside of the United States I would hardly label a non-US Apostle as "token." Scott's comment is odd given that US Mormons are now a MINORITY in the Church.Any demand or suggestion that the quorum needs to reflect the demographic makeup of the Church membership smacks of tokenism and ark-steadying. As JLHPROF so eloquently expressed it: The apostle should be the one God chooses, regardless of where he is from.It is not a political, administrative, or elected position. It is whoever God wants to hold the priesthood keys.Majority, minority, experience, etc may matter to mortals, but God is the one choosing. 2
Scott Lloyd Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 Ideally that is true. But in this old world If the leadership of the Church was limited to just a direct first son of a High Priest of Levi, It is doubtful we'd be outside of a small band of sheep/goat herders wondering in the Sinai desert.This seems non-sequitur. Where was JLHPROF saying that it had to be "a direct first son of a High Priest of Levi"? He was saying that God will choose whom He will. That seems self-evident and quite non-controversial. I'm surprised at the push-back.
Rivers Posted June 1, 2015 Author Posted June 1, 2015 If we are making nomination's how about Dr. P? That might be amusing just to see all the critics have a conniption fit.Don't you need to be rich to be an apostle?
Scott Lloyd Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) As was recently discussed on the Word of Wisdom thread, there are many factors that play into revelation. It is rarely a "voice of God" audible/visual kind of revelation but rather consideration of many factors in councilBut that doesn't negate the fact that, in the end, it is the will of God that is made manifest. If anything, God is in the background guiding "the consideration of many factors in council." I am certain, for example, that God guided the investigation of the young Joseph Smith and was preparing his mind and heart before Joseph finally got around to asking in prayer which church was right. Edited June 1, 2015 by Scott Lloyd
JLHPROF Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 Don't you need to be rich to be an apostle? No, but it probably doesn't hurt to be educated, retired and financially stable since you aren't getting to hold down a regular job anymore.(And yes, I know Apostles get a stipend, but that's very different from a full salary.
Scott Lloyd Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 So how long is the process usually before there is an announcement? Does one wait until the next conference...memory is glitching out at the moment.It needn't wait until the next conference. Jeffrey R. Holland was called on June 23, 1994. 2
HappyJackWagon Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 But that doesn't negate the fact that, in the end, it is the will of God that is made manifest. If anything, God is in the background guiding "the consideration of many factors in council." I am certain, for example, that God guided the investigation of the young Joseph Smith before Joseph finally got around to asking in prayer which church was right.This is my point. God may very much want a non-white "token" to be chosen to teach the church something. There may be political or social reasons that are considered as revelation is sought so we shouldn't be so quick to dismiss the possibilities of other factors as playing a role. 4
HappyJackWagon Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 No, but it probably doesn't hurt to be educated, retired and financially stable since you aren't getting to hold down a regular job anymore.(And yes, I know Apostles get a stipend, but that's very different from a full salary.How is it different from a full salary? Compared to what? I would be shocked to learn their stipend is not 2-3 times my annual salary and probably more, all coming after usual retirement age. Do you have any information about the amount of the stipend? 1
Duncan Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 The call sometimes comes from unexpected places. Howard W. Hunter was the President of the Pasadena California Stake prior to being called to the twelve. I served in that stake!!!! I loved it!!!! not when Pres. Hunter was there mind you
Popular Post Scott Lloyd Posted June 1, 2015 Popular Post Posted June 1, 2015 This is my point. God may very much want a non-white "token" to be chosen to teach the church something. There may be political or social reasons that are considered as revelation is sought so we shouldn't be so quick to dismiss the possibilities of other factors as playing a role.By the same token (no pun intended), God is not going to pass over a white American who has been prepared to serve in the Twelve at this particular time in history just because a lot of people are thinking and saying that it needs to be somebody from outside the United States. 6
thesometimesaint Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 As was recently discussed on the Word of Wisdom thread, there are many factors that play into revelation. It is rarely a "voice of God" audible/visual kind of revelation but rather consideration of many factors in council Agreed.
Nevo Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 Don't you need to be rich to be an apostle? DCP has spoken many times about having gold-plated bathroom fixtures so I think he's eligible. 1
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