What Is Destroying America? The Importance Of Traditional Marriage.

[Senator]

1. The point is that the greatest benefit to society and the government in particular, are strong families with strong morals. How do we support, as a governmental system, these strong families? Supporting traditional marriage.

Define "traditional marriage"

Edited April 14, 2015 by Senator

[Gray]

1. The point is that the greatest benefit to society and the government in particular, are strong families with strong morals. How do we support, as a governmental system, these strong families? Supporting traditional marriage. That's how. 

 

 

 

The gay couples I know have excellent moral character. I can think of no better way to strengthen these excellent families than to allow them the same benefits of married life that I enjoy. 

[danielwoods]

Define "traditional marriage"

 

One man one woman. 

 

The gay couples I know have excellent moral character. I can think of no better way to strengthen these excellent families than to allow them the same benefits of married life that I enjoy. 

 

Great. Their living their life has little to no effect on us, until they force people to agree with them their view of what is moral. Like I said, the gay marriage issue isn't about gay marriage. 

[Senator]

One man one woman.

I can think of at least one example where, according to your definiton, the instituional practice of a non-traditional (again, by your definition) form of marriage is credited to the strenght of its society.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Senator

[Gray]

 

Great. Their living their life has little to no effect on us, until they force people to agree with them their view of what is moral. Like I said, the gay marriage issue isn't about gay marriage. 

 

No one can or will force you to agree that anything at all is moral, even when gay marriage is legal across all 50 states. 

[Teancum]

1. The point is that the greatest benefit to society and the government in particular, are strong families with strong morals. How do we support, as a governmental system, these strong families? Supporting traditional marriage. That's how. 

 

2. If only .3 percent of the population are married gay people, then one would think it would be a non-issue. The reason it's has become a large issue, is because it's not just about marriage, it's about forcing religious people to violate what they believe to be true. 

 

3. The elephant in the room that no one talks about is where will it end? 

 

If one says that we can't limit the definition of marriage to traditional marriage, then where does it stop? If one man and one man is a marriage, whose to say 40 men and 40 men isn't a marriage? Or any other combination one can think of. When one can simply erase traditional definitions, then imagine how quickly non-traditional definitions will be erased by the next couple generations.

 

Will gay marriage reduce the number of traditional marriages by even one?

[JLHPROF]

One man one woman.

 

Hardly.  In the history of the world have 50%+ marriages followed this format?

I doubt it.

[Teancum]

Hardly.  In the history of the world have 50%+ marriages followed this format?

I doubt it.

 

Are you a big fan of polygamy?

[JLHPROF]

Are you a big fan of polygamy?

 

If you mean do I believe it is from God and the way the Gods live and will be practiced again, then yes.

If you mean do I think I'd be any good at it and am itching for the chance to give it a try, then no.

[Crypto]

I keep seeing this "How does gay marriage threaten your marriage"

Answer is it threatens the existing social structures and certain moral principals, which have undesired effects to the opposing population. It's not at all about how it affects "[my] marriage"

[Gray]

I keep seeing this "How does gay marriage threaten your marriage"

Answer is it threatens the existing social structures and certain moral principals, which have undesired effects to the opposing population. It's not at all about how it affects "[my] marriage"

 

In what way does it threaten those things? What undesired effects do you foresee? 

[teddyaware]

I do not think the world is losing its soul. In many ways the world is better than it has ever been.  Sure there are huge problems, wars, evil things going on and so on.  On the other hand more of the world is fed, has water, is seeing their economic situation increase, their life spans increase, etc.

 

The world has always been in turmoil. It is sad because if we could cast off the things that cause us to hate, to abuse, to take advantage of and exploit others, if the leaders of many nations would work for the benefit of the people and cast off kleptocracy I believe we could feed the world and everyone could living. I believe we have the resources and technology to do this.

 

I am sure the religious folks will say "See you are making our point!  We are so evil that even in a day of abundance we let thousands of children starve every day."  And that is true. 

 

Maybe the end is nigh.  If Jesus really is coming again I  hope he hurries really.  But on the other hand I think over all the world is better off than it ever has been, in many ways.  Still has a long way to go.

 

The Saviour taught us that those who lack faith and do not believe in the scriptures and the living prophets will find it difficult to correctly discern the signs of the times because they lack the insight that only the spirit of prophecy can bring. As one who believes and follows the scriptures and the living prophets, and as one who humbly believes he has a portion of the spirit of prophecy, it's not at all surprising to me that you don't seem to see and properly interpret (according to my view) what's happening right before your eyes. The Saviour taught that those who don't believe will be doubting and discounting the inspired warnings of the prophets, and the actual fulfillments of prophecies that are taking place right before their eyes, right up until to the very last minute just before the Second Coming of Christ. All the terrible judgements of God that will surround such people and all the terrible wars that fill the world will merely be accounted as events that are par for the course of human history with no divine component whatsoever to the constant torrent of disasters and horrors that will increasingly encroach on every side. 

 

You have every right to believe what you want to believe, as do I, but there is no way anyone will be able to prevent the inevitable consequences that will flow from the choices that are made. I have thrown in my lot with the prophets and the scriptures and cannot do anything other than raise the voice of warning, for I know we are living in the last days and soon the floodgates of wickedness will be thrown wide opened in the raging storm of the last days; and when that day comes -- and it will come soon -- only the willfully blind will be able to deny the truth that God is pouring out His judgements without measure upon a world ripening in iniquity. I believe with all my heart that President Benson spoke the truth when in his last General Conference address he warned the world that...

 

 

"I testify that wickedness is rapidly expanding in every segment of our society. (See D&C 1:14–16; D&C 84:49–53.) It is more highly organized, more cleverly disguised, and more powerfully promoted than ever before. Secret combinations lusting for power, gain, and glory are flourishing. A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world. (See Ether 8:18–25.)

 

I testify that the church and kingdom of God is increasing in strength. Its numbers are growing, as is the faithfulness of its faithful members. It has never been better organized or equipped to perform its divine mission.

 

I testify that as the forces of evil increase under Lucifer’s leadership and as the forces of good increase under the leadership of Jesus Christ, there will be growing battles between the two until the final confrontation. As the issues become clearer and more obvious, all mankind will eventually be required to align themselves either for the kingdom of God or for the kingdom of the devil. As these conflicts rage, either secretly or openly, the righteous will be tested. God’s wrath will soon shake the nations of the earth and will be poured out on the wicked without measure. (See JS—H 1:45; D&C 1:9.) But God will provide strength for the righteous and the means of escape; and eventually and finally truth will triumph. (See 1 Ne. 22:15–23.)

 

P.S. I'm wondering why these discussions between believers and doubters always have to devolve into "show me a sign or I won't believe" exercises in futility, when the Saviour said that people will receive no sign until after they have successfully passed through their own personal "trial of faith?" I'm also wondering why believers, like me, continue to try to convince the doubters and the naysayers when we know from experience that our efforts will not work? Perhaps there's a psychologist on the board who can explain the phenomenon. 

.  

Edited April 14, 2015 by teddyaware

[danielwoods]

I can think of at least one example where, according to your definiton, the instituional practice of a non-traditional (again, by your definition) form of marriage is credited to the strenght of its society.

 

The context is the USA and this particular article, which references data that studies the positive and negative effects of different situations. The traditional marriage in that context is what we are talking about. 

 

No one can or will force you to agree that anything at all is moral, even when gay marriage is legal across all 50 states. 

 

Right. Tell that to the bakers and photographers. 

 

 

Hardly.  In the history of the world have 50%+ marriages followed this format?

I doubt it.

 

We aren't talking about the history of the world. Just the USA. 

[rockpond]

"I testify that wickedness is rapidly expanding in every segment of our society. (See D&C 1:14–16; D&C 84:49–53.) It is more highly organized, more cleverly disguised, and more powerfully promoted than ever before. Secret combinations lusting for power, gain, and glory are flourishing. A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world. (See Ether 8:18–25.)

 

Good thing the Church has a laser-like focus on that "wickedness" being the risk of having to photograph a gay couple making a loving commitment to one another.  Not ISIS.  Not poverty.  Not the financial & life impacts of health care legislation on families. 

[rockpond]

 

P.S. I'm wondering why these discussions between believers and doubters always have to devolve into "show me a sign or I won't believe" exercises in futility, when the Saviour said that people will receive no sign until after they have successfully passed through their own personal "trial of faith?" I'm also wondering why believers, like me, continue to try to convince the doubters and the naysayers when we know from experience that our efforts will not work? Perhaps there's a psychologist on the board who can explain the phenomenon. 

.  

 

You've made this point before, and I believe I responded with this same question but haven't seen a reply from you:  Who here is asking for a sign?

 

This seems like a strawman argument.

[JLHPROF]

We aren't talking about the history of the world. Just the USA. 

 

Didn't realize that American views on marriage were the only ones that counted.

[Gray]

 

Right. Tell that to the bakers and photographers. 

 

 

No one is forcing any bakers or photographers to agree that anything is moral either. 

[Mormonmaniac]

Kind of interesting that I brought up the articke in the link in the OP to discuss the role of family values in traditional families. Somehow, this thread is getting derailed into yet another gay marriage debate. I think its definitely an issue but not the point I was originally aiming for. In this post I am more interested in ways of keeping traditional families together. I think gay marriage and homosexuality is but just one symptom of the breakdown of the traditional family with parents divorcing, single parents, etc. That is why I think we need to refocus on strengthening the traditional family unit as the stabilizer of our country. A traditional family consists of the children and their biologic mother and father married and together.

[california boy]

1. The point is that the greatest benefit to society and the government in particular, are strong families with strong morals. How do we support, as a governmental system, these strong families? Supporting traditional marriage. That's how. 

 

 

I absolutely agree that the government should support strong families with strong morals.  A great statement that is easy to say but impossible for you to explain.  What do you think the government should do in addition to what they are currently doing to support strong families with strong morals?  When gay couples have chosen to adopt children from heterosexual couples that have abandoned them, do those children also deserve the exact same support from the federal government?  

 

So tell us all, if you could have the government do anything at all, anything that you can dream up to support traditional families more what would you have them do what would it be?  And how does gay marriage stop ANY of that support from happening?

 

 

2. If only .3 percent of the population are married gay people, then one would think it would be a non-issue. The reason it's has become a large issue, is because it's not just about marriage, it's about forcing religious people to violate what they believe to be true.

 

 

 

It is insignificant.  Now tell us how gay marriage will force religious people to abandon their religious beliefs.  Has all the people in Mass been forced to abandon their religious beliefs since gay marriage was made leagle years ago?  If you can't do that, then you do not have a point other than agreeing that gay marriage is insignificant to what is tearing apart traditional families.

 

 

3. The elephant in the room that no one talks about is where will it end? 

 

I have given you nothing but FACTS.  You respond with fear mongering.  While you have replied to my post (thank you very much)  you have not responded to my post. 

 

Once again, from the article

• One-third of children are rejected before birth in abortion;
• One-third are born to an unmarried mother without a father who is committed to taking care of them.
• One-half of those who are born to married parents will see their parents reject each other before they reach age 18.

 

 

 

 

Not a single one of those children were born into a SSM.  Now for all of those that have spent so much energy fighting gay marriage, just how big of problem is gay marriage.  Something more than fear mongering would be appreciated.  Like a real answer, not hyperbole

[thesometimesaint]

Kind of interesting that I brought up the articke in the link in the OP to discuss the role of family values in traditional families. Somehow, this thread is getting derailed into yet another gay marriage debate. I think its definitely an issue but not the point I was originally aiming for. In this post I am more interested in ways of keeping traditional families together. I think gay marriage and homosexuality is but just one symptom of the breakdown of the traditional family with parents divorcing, single parents, etc. That is why I think we need to refocus on strengthening the traditional family unit as the stabilizer of our country. A traditional family consists of the children and their biologic mother and father married and together.

 

All my children are grown with families of their own. So when I moved my aged, and declining in health, mother in with us. We suddenly became an unacceptable nontraditional family?

[Crypto]

In what way does it threaten those things? What undesired effects do you foresee? 

It's pretty simple. Theologically I believe a human spirit can't progress in the plan of salvation, which as I understand it requires male and female working with each other to progress into the eternities.

The undesirable effect would be the inability to progress in God's great work.

As for the societal effects, a great many other people have commented on this before, and I'll leave it to them.

[rockpond]

I was going to quote some of this article but I couldnt quote the whole thing. Very interesting data proving the importance of why our government should stand in support of traditional marriage, families and faith. Enjoy.

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2001/03/the-roots-of-prosperity-stability-and-freedom

 

 

Kind of interesting that I brought up the articke in the link in the OP to discuss the role of family values in traditional families. Somehow, this thread is getting derailed into yet another gay marriage debate. I think its definitely an issue but not the point I was originally aiming for. In this post I am more interested in ways of keeping traditional families together. I think gay marriage and homosexuality is but just one symptom of the breakdown of the traditional family with parents divorcing, single parents, etc. That is why I think we need to refocus on strengthening the traditional family unit as the stabilizer of our country. A traditional family consists of the children and their biologic mother and father married and together.

 

(Bold added by me.)

 

Gee... I wonder how your thread turned into a gay marriage debate.  

 

Perhaps if we worked to strengthen all families, all marriage, and all faith we'd have a stronger country/world.  I propose a first step:  Stop telling people that their families are less worthy of legal protections than other families.

Edited April 14, 2015 by rockpond

[The Nehor]

Didn't realize that American views on marriage were the only ones that counted.

Well, now you know and knowing is half the battle.

[CA Steve]

Gay marriage has about as much chance of destroying America as the critics do of destroying the church.

[JLHPROF]

Well, now you know and knowing is half the battle.

 

Go Joe!