What Is Destroying America? The Importance Of Traditional Marriage.

[Mormonmaniac]

I was going to quote some of this article but I couldnt quote the whole thing. Very interesting data proving the importance of why our government should stand in support of traditional marriage, families and faith. Enjoy.

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2001/03/the-roots-of-prosperity-stability-and-freedom

[canard78]

Another thread? Do we seriously need another traditional marriage/gay marriage thread?

[canard78]

Out of interest... What's your solution? Are you suggesting USA should make divorce illegal? Should children out of wedlock be too?

The thought makes reason stare...

Why is the government's job to keep your marriage intact anyway?

[thesometimesaint]

Out of interest... What's your solution? Are you suggesting USA should make divorce illegal? Should children out of wedlock be too?

The thought makes reason stare...

Why is the government's job to keep your marriage intact anyway?

 

Let alone support any faith over another. It wasn't all that long ago that Mormons were attacked as being for nontraditional marriage(Polygamy).

[Robert F. Smith]

Let alone support any faith over another. It wasn't all that long ago that Mormons were attacked as being for nontraditional marriage(Polygamy).

 

.................................................................   

Why is the government's job to keep your marriage intact anyway?

What a laughable idea -- that the gov't should try to keep your marriage intact, or even to favor marriage of any kind.  Traditional marriage is failing, and there is no evidence that non-traditional marriage will be any more successful.  Selfishness, greed, and just plain lack of love is primarily responsible for the failure of any marriage, straight or gay, or some other permutation of marriage or civil partnership.

 

It would be nice if we could all just get along and be nice to each other, but I see little hope of that short of the coming of the Millennium.  The stats are in and they ain't promising for the near term.

 

Solutions?  Would be nice if we had some workable ones, any sort of economic or moral-ethical enticement, but are there any?

[The Nehor]

Solutions?  Would be nice if we had some workable ones, any sort of economic or moral-ethical enticement, but are there any?

I expect God will fall back on the punishment approach. You know, bondage, threats of imminent destruction, wars, famines, plagues, the usual.

[thesometimesaint]

I expect God will fall back on the punishment approach. You know, bondage, threats of imminent destruction, wars, famines, plagues, the usual.

 

God can do what ever he wants. Our sad experience is that when mortal men believe they are doing Gods' work the problems come in.

[The Nehor]

God can do what ever he wants. Our sad experience is that when mortal men believe they are doing Gods' work the problems come in.

Only when they are wrong. Many in this case probably are.

[Senator]

Another thread? Do we seriously need another traditional marriage/gay marriage thread?

 

Well, he did say this on another thread:

 

"I do get tiired of one gay thread after another on these forums..."

 

So, naturally, you would start another one....................

Edited April 14, 2015 by Senator

[ALarson]

Mormonmaniac,

 

You stated in another thread that your neighbors are gay.  If you're married, can you give some specifics as to how that gay couple destroys, hurts, or weakens your marriage?

[DarkScythe]

Well there is a lot of things that is destroying America internally.

[ERayR]

God can do what ever he wants. Our sad experience is that when mortal men believe they are doing Gods' work the problems come in.

 

Okay say goodby to the prophets.  The real problem is thinking you can do without them.

[teddyaware]

Mormonmaniac,

 

You stated in another thread that your neighbors are gay.  If you're married, can you give some specifics as to how that gay couple destroys, hurts, or weakens your marriage?

 

Regardless of what progressives think and propagate, this issue becomes very clear and unambiguous for those who believe the LDS Church is led by living prophets. The Proclamation on the Family forthrightly warns the people of the world that if they fail to uphold and protect the sanctity of traditional male/female marriage the great destructive cataclysms of divine judgment prophesied for the last days will commence with fury (this dire warning was once again reiterated in the last General Conference). So who should the faithful Latter-day Saints believe and follow? Should they believe those who either disbelieve, ignore or minimize the warnings of the living prophets and apostles? Or should the faithful saints follow the living prophets and apostles who stand as inspired watchmen on the hill? After all is said and done, this controversy distills down to this one simple choice. But as for me and my house, we will follow the prophets of the Lord.

 

The Titanic was warned of treacherous icebergs lying head, but Captain Smith, who had just said in an interview that his entire career could be described as "uneventful," pushed the Titanic full-speed ahead and reaped the whirlwind.

 

It is often said that just a little bit leaven is needed lo leaven a whole loaf, and I believe that the General Authorities know by revelation that the gay marriage issue is that little bit of leaven of unrighteousness that will corrupt the whole "loaf" by fully opening the fortress gates of the nations to the destructive designs of the adversary -- destructive and unforeseen consequences that will soon follow in the wake of full legal approval for gay marriage. Without many even realizing it, especially those who ignore the prophets, this nation is on the brink of committing suicide.

Edited April 14, 2015 by teddyaware

[Teancum]

I was going to quote some of this article but I couldnt quote the whole thing. Very interesting data proving the importance of why our government should stand in support of traditional marriage, families and faith. Enjoy.

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2001/03/the-roots-of-prosperity-stability-and-freedom

 

 

When the Mormon Church stands up for traditional marriage are they forgetting 50 years of their history?  Are they forgetting their scripture still contains a section that supports non traditional marriages and that it is doctrine that this non traditional marriage system is part of what heaven may hold?

 

It seem ironic to make this argument without at least acknowledging such.  19th century leaders thought traditional monogamy lead to many evils.

[Teancum]

I was going to quote some of this article but I couldnt quote the whole thing. Very interesting data proving the importance of why our government should stand in support of traditional marriage, families and faith. Enjoy.

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2001/03/the-roots-of-prosperity-stability-and-freedom

 

 

I do not have time to read it all.  But let's say I agree that the traditional one man and one woman intact family is best for society and raising children.  And I do by the way,

 

Fact is we will still have single parents, divorce, out of wedlock births, etc. This does not mean traditional families won't continue.  And we should work to strengthen them.   Gay marriage?  How will this threaten heterosexuals who want to marry traditionally?   I see no threat.  None at all.  Traditional marriages and families will continue to remain the norm.

 

What we should be doing is working with heterosexuals to encourage marriage and give them tools to stay married and support family. 

[Buckeye]

...

 

It is often said that just a little bit leaven is needed lo leaven a whole loaf, and I believe that the General Authorities know by revelation that the gay marriage issue is that little bit of leaven of unrighteousness that will corrupt the whole "loaf" by fully opening the fortress gates of the nations to the destructive designs of the adversary -- destructive and unforeseen consequences that will soon follow in the wake of full legal approval for gay marriage. Without many even realizing it, especially those who ignore the prophets, this nation is on the brink of committing suicide.

 

Perhaps Scott could start another clock for when the destructions fortold by the PotF will come to pass. What timeframe would you propose? 40 years?

 

And that's only for the US. If you look at European nations that embraced SSM 10-15 years ago, we already have a head start for judging the wrath of God.

[thesometimesaint]

Okay say goodby to the prophets.  The real problem is thinking you can do without them.

 

I see no reason why I should abandon the prophets. I'm just rather particular about what they tell me to do.

[JLHPROF]

I was going to quote some of this article but I couldnt quote the whole thing. Very interesting data proving the importance of why our government should stand in support of traditional marriage, families and faith. Enjoy.

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2001/03/the-roots-of-prosperity-stability-and-freedom

 

Without analyzing this post to death, let's just say I don't believe "traditional marriage" is nearly as "traditional" as we make it out to be.  Mormons should know that better than anyone based on our history.

[Boanerges]

Mormonmaniac,

 

You stated in another thread that your neighbors are gay.  If you're married, can you give some specifics as to how that gay couple destroys, hurts, or weakens your marriage?

 I'd be interested to hear this answer, too. I live in an Eastern (liberal, of course) state where gay marriage has been legal for several years. I used to think gay marriage was a threat to society. Truth is, after these years I see no difference. Men marrying men and women marrying women has not directly or indirectly impacted my family or my marriage in any way. Seriously, what is the threat? Are heterosexuals suddenly going to decide that since it's OK to marry another of his or her same gender they should just go ahead and do it? Are gays going to seduce my heterosexual partner?

 

I fully understand that the church does not want to be in the position where it is forced to recognize or perform gay marriages, and I support that religious freedom. No church has been even threatened with such legal action here since SSM was legalized. Other than that, I don't see how it affects us at all. I don't push my desire to live the word of wisdom on others, they can drink or smoke what they please. I don't push keeping the sabbath holy on others - they can shop, go to the beach, play games or whatever else they like. Why do we think it necessary to push our marriage ideals, which I also don't do, on others?

 

There's some obscure scripture somewhere, I think it goes something like this: "We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."

Edited April 14, 2015 by Boanerges

[teddyaware]

Perhaps Scott could start another clock for when the destructions fortold by the PotF will come to pass. What timeframe would you propose? 40 years?

 

And that's only for the US. If you look at European nations that embraced SSM 10-15 years ago, we already have a head start for judging the wrath of God.

 

If you can't discern that this world is already well on the way to losing its soul, then we have little in common to discuss. There is little of value that will ever be accomplished when followers of the living prophets engage in verbal battles with those who lack faith and don't believe and follow the prophets. What is actually required is patience on the part of all to wait and see who will turn out to be on the right side in the end. In the scriptures, it invariably turns out that those who disbelieve and ignore the prophets will sooner or later be proved to be the ones who are in the wrong in the end. But I make you a gentleman's promise that if we ever meet in person in the world to come, I'll try very hard to restrain the impulse to say "I told you so."

 

By the way, I wonder if you realize the spirit of your language is similar to the kinds of taunting things the unbelievers in the scriptures would say to the believers before they were proved to be wrong? Here's one sample:

 

4 And it came to pass that in the commencement of the ninety and second year, behold, the prophecies of the prophets began to be fulfilled more fully; for there began to be greater signs and greater miracles wrought among the people.

5 But there were some who began to say that the time was past for the words to be fulfilled, which were spoken by Samuel, the Lamanite.

6 And they began to rejoice over their brethren, saying: Behold the time is past, and the words of Samuel are not fulfilled; therefore, your joy and your faith concerning this thing hath been vain.

7 And it came to pass that they did make a great uproar throughout the land; and the people who believed began to be very sorrowful, lest by any means those things which had been spoken might not come to pass.

8 But behold, they did watch steadfastly for that day and that night and that day which should be as one day as if there were no night, that they might know that their faith had not been vain. (3 Nephi 1)

Edited April 14, 2015 by teddyaware

[Robert F. Smith]

................................................

 

It is often said that just a little bit leaven is needed lo leaven a whole loaf, and I believe that the General Authorities know by revelation that the gay marriage issue is that little bit of leaven of unrighteousness that will corrupt the whole "loaf" by fully opening the fortress gates of the nations to the destructive designs of the adversary -- destructive and unforeseen consequences that will soon follow in the wake of full legal approval for gay marriage. Without many even realizing it, especially those who ignore the prophets, this nation is on the brink of committing suicide.

Take an LDS General Conference, any Conference, and you will find a full panoply of issues discussed by the General and Auxiliary Authorities.  I like the balanced presentation, which belies the single-minded approach to problems.

 

One finds the same broadscale and balanced treatment of the Gospel and the human condition in the Epistles of St Paul.  No monomania there at all.  Why?  Because the Gospel covers the entirety of human endeavors.  It speaks to people in every condition of life.

 

Making Same Sex Marriage legal in every state will not mean that the LDS Church will encounter any particular problems, nor does it presage the end of civilization.  Nor would any other form of non-traditional marriage (including polygyny).  Nor have the prophets said so.  There are churches which try to control every aspect of personal life in America, but the totalitarian temptation is a dangerous one, and we all need to just let our neighbors be.  We all need to respect our neighbor's Constitutional liberties.

[Teancum]

If you can't discern that this world is already well on the way to losing its soul, then we have little in common to discuss. There is little of value that will ever be accomplished when followers of the living prophets engage in verbal battles with those who lack faith and don't believe and follow the prophets. What is actually required is patience on the part of all to wait and see who will turn out to be on the right side in the end. In the scriptures, it invariably turns out that those who disbelieve and ignore the prophets will sooner or later be proved to be the ones who are in the wrong in the end. But I make you a gentleman's promise that if we ever meet in person in the world to come, I'll try very hard to restrain the impulse to say "I told you so."

 

By the way, I wonder if you realize the spirit of your language is similar to the kinds of taunting things the unbelievers in the scriptures would say to the believers before they were proved to be wrong? Here's one sample:

 

4 And it came to pass that in the commencement of the ninety and second year, behold, the prophecies of the prophets began to be fulfilled more fully; for there began to be greater signs and greater miracles wrought among the people.

5 But there were some who began to say that the time was past for the words to be fulfilled, which were spoken by Samuel, the Lamanite.

6 And they began to rejoice over their brethren, saying: Behold the time is past, and the words of Samuel are not fulfilled; therefore, your joy and your faith concerning this thing hath been vain.

7 And it came to pass that they did make a great uproar throughout the land; and the people who believed began to be very sorrowful, lest by any means those things which had been spoken might not come to pass.

8 But behold, they did watch steadfastly for that day and that night and that day which should be as one day as if there were no night, that they might know that their faith had not been vain. (3 Nephi 1)

 

 

I do not think the world is losing its soul. In many ways the world is better than it has ever been.  Sure there are huge problems, wars, evil things going on and so on.  On the other hand more of the world is fed, has water, is seeing their economic situation increase, their life spans increase, etc.

 

The world has always been in turmoil. It is sad because if we could cast off the things that cause us to hate, to abuse, to take advantage of and exploit others, if the leaders of many nations would work for the benefit of the people and cast off kleptocracy I believe we could feed the world and everyone could living. I believe we have the resources and technology to do this.

 

I am sure the religious folks will say "See you are making our point!  We are so evil that even in a day of abundance we let thousands of children starve every day."  And that is true. 

 

Maybe the end is nigh.  If Jesus really is coming again I  hope he hurries really.  But on the other hand I think over all the world is better off than it ever has been, in many ways.  Still has a long way to go.

[california boy]

I was going to quote some of this article but I couldnt quote the whole thing. Very interesting data proving the importance of why our government should stand in support of traditional marriage, families and faith. Enjoy.

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2001/03/the-roots-of-prosperity-stability-and-freedom

 

If you actually read the article, there is nothing in it about gay marriage and how it could affect traditional marriage.  The HUGE problem that is glaring so strongly is straight couples having children irresponsibly.  The tragedy of having children out of wedlock, divorce, abortion has become epidemic.  NONE, not ONE of those issues comes from a gay couple marrying.  

 

Sometimes I write posts that are so undeniable concerning the complete lack of any perceived threat of gay marriage to traditional marriage that I know I am not going to get a response because it is not what those that fight against gay marriage want to talk about.  Those that oppose gay marriage like Teddyaware, Mormonmaniac Paharan (aka Russel G McGreggor) Scott Lloyd and others are so blinded by this mantra that they can not see past the real threat to traditional families.  It is hardly gay marriage as this article by the Heritage Foundation none the less, so clearly points out.

 

The other point that never gets any comments on because it is also so undeniable is the fact that only 3% of the population is gay and only 10% of that population chooses to marry.  So all of this jumping on the soapbox about gay marriage only concerns .3% of all marriages.  

 

From the article

 

• • One-third of children are rejected before birth in abortion;
  • One-third are born to an unmarried mother without a father who is committed to taking care of them.
  • One-half of those who are born to married parents will see their parents reject each other before they reach age 18.

   

Not a single one of those children were born into a SSM.  Now for all of those that have spent so much energy fighting gay marriage, just how big of problem is gay marriage.

 

I know this is a post that will get little to no response from those so activally fighting gay marriage like Teddyaware, Mormonmaniac Paharan (aka Russel G McGreggor) Scott Lloyd and others because it is so much easier to cast gay marriage as the villain to traditional families.  How many of those people think that the PoF is proof that gay marriage is the scorn of God.  Maybe the scorn of God is on how society and all too often unfortunately, members of the church has butchered traditional marriage not gay couples.

[Buckeye]

If you can't discern that this world is already well on the way to losing its soul, then we have little in common to discuss. There is little of value that will ever be accomplished when followers of the living prophets engage in verbal battles with those who lack faith and don't believe and follow the prophets. What is actually required is patience on the part of all to wait and see who will turn out to be on the right side in the end. In the scriptures, it invariably turns out that those who disbelieve and ignore the prophets will sooner or later be proved to be the ones who are in the wrong in the end. But I make you a gentleman's promise that if we ever meet in person in the world to come, I'll try very hard to restrain the impulse to say "I told you so."

 

By the way, I wonder if you realize the spirit of your language is similar to the kinds of taunting things the unbelievers in the scriptures would say to the believers before they were proved to be wrong? Here's one sample:

 

4 And it came to pass that in the commencement of the ninety and second year, behold, the prophecies of the prophets began to be fulfilled more fully; for there began to be greater signs and greater miracles wrought among the people.

5 But there were some who began to say that the time was past for the words to be fulfilled, which were spoken by Samuel, the Lamanite.

6 And they began to rejoice over their brethren, saying: Behold the time is past, and the words of Samuel are not fulfilled; therefore, your joy and your faith concerning this thing hath been vain.

7 And it came to pass that they did make a great uproar throughout the land; and the people who believed began to be very sorrowful, lest by any means those things which had been spoken might not come to pass.

8 But behold, they did watch steadfastly for that day and that night and that day which should be as one day as if there were no night, that they might know that their faith had not been vain. (3 Nephi 1)

 

If you're going to say "I told you so" you have to be specific as to your prophesy. Your reference to Samuel is a good example. A night as day, within 5 years. That can be verified. But "judgements of God fortold by scriptures" is vague enought that doubt you'll ever be able to "tell me so."

[danielwoods]

If you actually read the article, there is nothing in it about gay marriage and how it could affect traditional marriage.  The HUGE problem that is glaring so strongly is straight couples having children irresponsibly.  The tragedy of having children out of wedlock, divorce, abortion has become epidemic.  NONE, not ONE of those issues comes from a gay couple marrying.  

 

Sometimes I write posts that are so undeniable concerning the complete lack of any perceived threat of gay marriage to traditional marriage that I know I am not going to get a response because it is not what those that fight against gay marriage want to talk about.  Those that oppose gay marriage like Teddyaware, Mormonmaniac Paharan (aka Russel G McGreggor) Scott Lloyd and others are so blinded by this mantra that they can not see past the real threat to traditional families.  It is hardly gay marriage as this article by the Heritage Foundation none the less, so clearly points out.

 

The other point that never gets any comments on because it is also so undeniable is the fact that only 3% of the population is gay and only 10% of that population chooses to marry.  So all of this jumping on the soapbox about gay marriage only concerns .3% of all marriages.  

 

From the article

 

•  

Not a single one of those children were born into a SSM.  Now for all of those that have spent so much energy fighting gay marriage, just how big of problem is gay marriage.

 

I know this is a post that will get little to no response from those so activally fighting gay marriage like Teddyaware, Mormonmaniac Paharan (aka Russel G McGreggor) Scott Lloyd and others because it is so much easier to cast gay marriage as the villain to traditional families.  How many of those people think that the PoF is proof that gay marriage is the scorn of God.  Maybe the scorn of God is on how society and all too often unfortunately, members of the church has butchered traditional marriage not gay couples.

 

1. The point is that the greatest benefit to society and the government in particular, are strong families with strong morals. How do we support, as a governmental system, these strong families? Supporting traditional marriage. That's how. 

 

2. If only .3 percent of the population are married gay people, then one would think it would be a non-issue. The reason it's has become a large issue, is because it's not just about marriage, it's about forcing religious people to violate what they believe to be true. 

 

3. The elephant in the room that no one talks about is where will it end? 

 

If one says that we can't limit the definition of marriage to traditional marriage, then where does it stop? If one man and one man is a marriage, whose to say 40 men and 40 men isn't a marriage? Or any other combination one can think of. When one can simply erase traditional definitions, then imagine how quickly non-traditional definitions will be erased by the next couple generations.