Adam God Theory

[Rivers]

I suppose that with the Adam God doctrine we aren't supposed to take everything in the Adam and Eve narratives as literal. Brigham Yound did call the Adam and Eve story a baby story.

[ERayR]

Eating the food of the earth and gaining a physical body WAS the fall.  The veil of forgetfullness came as a result of the fall, not while he was still immortal.

 

its a possibility the fall was the moving earth from a celestial orbit to a telestial orbit.

Edited January 24, 2015 by ERayR

[Ahab]

Brigham Young referred to Elohim as the Grandfather, by the way, which would support what you call "theory one," JLHPROF.

Grandfather to Adam's immediate children (Cain, Abel, Seth, etc), great grand Father, to the next line down, great, great grand Father to the next line, with him getting to be greater in each succeeding generation.

We can all just call him Father, though, however great and grand he is to us. Or we could all just call him Grandfather however great he is to us.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Ahab

[Ahab]

I suppose that with the Adam God doctrine we aren't supposed to take everything in the Adam and Eve narratives as literal. Brigham Yound did call the Adam and Eve story a baby story.

Yeah, but over the years the baby story still got mucked up, like with the part about Eve being taken from Adam's side mucked up into her coming from one of his ribs.

[JLHPROF]

its a possibility the fall was the moving earth from a celestial orbit to a telestial orbit.

 

That's more than a possibility.  That's what I think happened.  We literally fell from near Kolob.

[JLHPROF]

Grandfather to Adam's immediate children (Cain, Abel, Seth, etc), great grand Father, to the next line down, great, great grand Father to the next line, with him getting to be greater in each succeeding generation.

We can all just call him Father, though, however great and grand he is to us. Or we could all just call him Grandfather however great he is to us.

 

That's the current explanation.  Not the Adam-God one.

[Ahab]

That's the current explanation. Not the Adam-God one.

You know I don't agree with you about that, don't you?

But I suppose you can keep saying that as long as you want to, even though I say it is, or at least a version of it.

[Teancum]

If any Latter Day Saint accepts the Adam God doctrine today they are in an apostate position and should not have a temple recommend .

[JLHPROF]

If any Latter Day Saint accepts the Adam God doctrine today they are in an apostate position and should not have a temple recommend .

 

Yes and no.  Think of it as SSA.  If you believe but don't preach you are under no condemnation.  Just like those who have SSA but remain celibate.

 

And frankly, the whole concept of apostasy over doctrine should be considered "unMormon".

Joseph taught:

 

“I never thought it was right to call up a man and try him because he erred in doctrine, it looks too much like methodism and not like Latter day Saintism. Methodists have creeds which a man must believe or be kicked out of their church. I want the liberty of believing as I please, it feels so good not to be tramelled.”

[ERayR]

If any Latter Day Saint accepts the Adam God doctrine today they are in an apostate position and should not have a temple recommend .

 

Why a creedal position is not required.

[K-2]

"If any Latter Day Saint accepts the Adam God doctrine today they are in an apostate position and should not have a temple recommend ."

Says who?

[JLHPROF]

"If any Latter Day Saint accepts the Adam God doctrine today they are in an apostate position and should not have a temple recommend ."

Says who?

 

Ironically:

 

1. Orson Pratt, an apostle, was almost excommunicated for opposing Adam-God Doctrine. Details are covered in Minutes of Meeting of Council of the Twelve, Church Historian's Office; Brigham Young Collection, Church Historian's office; details are found in Adam Is God???, pp. 16-20.
2. In late 1890 and 1891-1892, Bishop Edward Bunker, Jr. and his father, Edward Bunker Sr. (of Bunkerville, Utah) and his counselor Myron Abbott, were before church courts. The Bunkers denied Adam-God Doctrine; Abbott accepted it. The final High Council Court was held June 11, 1892 and was attended by President Wilford Woodruff and his first counselor, George Q Cannon. In summary, the Bunkers had their hands slapped for advancing false doctrine and "indulging in mysteries." Bunker Sr. was advised "to let these things alone." Abbott, who supported Adam-God doctrine, was cautioned to not become "puffed up in pride" over the victory. See Adam-God Maze, pp. 215-238

And considering the temple endowment still has plenty of allusion to the doctrine for those with eyes, it's crazy that there is discipline for believing it.

Edited January 24, 2015 by JLHPROF

[Hillel2]

I seem to remember having read an old myth about how after El had created the man Adam, he commanded his sons to bow down and worship him. The leader of the sons, as well as many others refused, believing it to be below them because they were already holy and godlike, and Adam was mortal. This resulted in them being cast out and becoming devils. Does that ring any bells for anyone who knows more pseudepigrapha than me?

[Hillel2]

Hello Coreyb. I'm sure the story has been around long before being recorded in scripture. However, my first exposure was when reading the Qur'an.

G-d creates man and orders the jinn to bow down to him. The jinn Iblis refuses. With his followeres he is cast out of G-d's presence but allowed to tempt man. In normative islam Iblis/ Satan is regarded as the king of fools (hence great satan is really more akin to idiot!). Some hold he will repent at end of time.

Perhaps u recall the poor yazidis in iraq from last summer. In their faith the chief angel melek taus refuses to bow down. G-d casts him into hell for 10000 years for his act. MT weeps over his separation fro G-d G-d releases him . It was all a test. MT was right to behave so. MT is exalted and becomes the ruler of all creation.

Interesting story?

[Coreyb]

Hello Coreyb. I'm sure the story has been around long before being recorded in scripture. However, my first exposure was when reading the Qur'an.

G-d creates man and orders the jinn to bow down to him. The jinn Iblis refuses. With his followeres he is cast out of G-d's presence but allowed to tempt man. In normative islam Iblis/ Satan is regarded as the king of fools (hence great satan is really more akin to idiot!). Some hold he will repent at end of time.

Perhaps u recall the poor yazidis in iraq from last summer. In their faith the chief angel melek taus refuses to bow down. G-d casts him into hell for 10000 years for his act. MT weeps over his separation fro G-d G-d releases him . It was all a test. MT was right to behave so. MT is exalted and becomes the ruler of all creation.

Interesting story?

That's where I read it! Thanks

[Brian 2.0]

its a possibility the fall was the moving earth from a celestial orbit to a telestial orbit.

I remember hearing this. And along with it was the idea that the "stars falling from the sky" talk that will happen is actually just the Earth returning to its orbit around Kolob and so it appears that the stars are falling from the sky during that travel.

Mormons be crazy.

[ERayR]

I remember hearing this. And along with it was the idea that the "stars falling from the sky" talk that will happen is actually just the Earth returning to its orbit around Kolob and so it appears that the stars are falling from the sky during that travel.

Mormons be crazy.

 

But not boring.   I couldn't imagine an eternity of sitting on a cloud playing a harp and singing.  Much more fun moving planets around from place to place.

[JLHPROF]

But not boring.   I couldn't imagine an eternity of sitting on a cloud playing a harp and singing.  Much more fun moving planets around from place to place.

 

Seriously.  That alone will prevent me from ever choosing to follow traditional Christianity.  An eternity of boredom and no real purpose in existence.

[Teancum]

"If any Latter Day Saint accepts the Adam God doctrine today they are in an apostate position and should not have a temple recommend ."

Says who?

Spencer Kimball

[Coreyb]

Spencer Kimball

Do you really believe that?

[JLHPROF]

Spencer Kimball

 

Well he has as much right to be completely wrong as President Young.  Two prophets.  Two opinions.  Study and pray about the doctrine and decide for yourself.  That's my approach.  I'm not going to follow either of their opinions when I can study and pray about a doctrine.

[Teancum]

Why a creedal position is not required.

Tell your bishop and SP at yournext TR interview you believe Adam is God and let us know how that goes.

[Teancum]

Do you really believe that?

He said it was false doctrine held by fundamentalist apostate polygamous groups.

[Teancum]

Well he has as much right to be completely wrong as President Young.  Two prophets.  Two opinions.  Study and pray about the doctrine and decide for yourself.  That's my approach.  I'm not going to follow either of their opinions when I can study and pray about a doctrine.

That sure builds confidence in prophets.

[JLHPROF]

That sure builds confidence in prophets.

 

My saying that Pres. Kimball can be mistaken is no more faith reducing than you saying Pres. Young was wrong.

You might be happy to make Brigham a whipping boy for false doctrine but I'm not.  Pres. Kimball can just as easily be the one in the wrong.  Pres Young claimed revelation on Adam God.  Pres. Kimball made no such claim when he labelled it a heresy.