Adam God Theory

[RevTestament]

But figuratively as Christ is the Second Adam figuratively?  Couldn't Eloheim (a plural name) refer to generations of Gods both male and female as the Bible seems to indicate?

 

Successive generations of "Adams" used as a title?  Seems to fit well with King Follette?  Successive generations of Gods?

When I first heard about and then read BY for myself on "Adam-Father-God" I basically did not understand it and rejected it.

But when one understands that God uses the OT to reveal things of heaven, it begins to make some sense. I now see the Torah as a microcosm of heavenly things, heavenly order, etc. In his earthly priesthood, Adam does represent the first or father of us all. Being that Christ also went down this path, Gen 3:22, he is the "second Adam" to Paul. The things of Christ are seen in basically all the prophets of the OT - as Christ put it, they had all spoken of Him. But in particular it is Moses that holds the position of speaking for Christ in the Torah as the deliverer of the people. So I now agree with you that figuratively or allegorically, Adam was "God," and stood in the place of the Father on the earth. And I believe literally He is Elohim - even as the prophets were. Mind you that does not make him YHWH in my eyes - nor does it make him El Elyon, the Most High God.

[JLHPROF]

Mike - so something you'd never heard of until today, you've never studied at all, you've never prayed about, and that was clearly taught by Brigham Yound and other prophet - this you don't believe?

Fair enough - you have that right, but that hardly sounds like an informed decision or opinion.

[mfbukowski]

When I first heard about and then read BY for myself on "Adam-Father-God" I basically did not understand it and rejected it.

But when one understands that God uses the OT to reveal things of heaven, it begins to make some sense. I now see the Torah as a microcosm of heavenly things, heavenly order, etc. In his earthly priesthood, Adam does represent the first or father of us all. Being that Christ also went down this path, Gen 3:22, he is the "second Adam" to Paul. The things of Christ are seen in basically all the prophets of the OT - as Christ put it, they had all spoken of Him. But in particular it is Moses that holds the position of speaking for Christ in the Torah as the deliverer of the people. So I now agree with you that figuratively or allegorically, Adam was "God," and stood in the place of the Father on the earth. And I believe literally He is Elohim - even as the prophets were. Mind you that does not make him YHWH in my eyes - nor does it make him El Elyon, the Most High God.

Works for me. That's about the way I see it.

It can work on both levels at once, literal and allegorical, no need to exclude one from the picture.

[mfbukowski]

Mike

You have just started your journey, just know all the answers are available.

[sethpayne]

How could Adam be God?

 

He couldn't be.  The whole idea is absurd regardless of what JLHPROF wants to believe or promote.

 

BY taught Adam-God.  He was wrong.  IIRC even some serving members of the 12 opposed his teaching on this subject.

[mfbukowski]

How could Adam be God?

The same way Bruce Wayne is also Batman.

 

One being, two titles.

 

Not that complicated.

[sethpayne]

The same way Bruce Wayne is also Batman.

 

One being, two titles.

 

Not that complicated.

 

Did you ever see Bruce Wayne and Batman together -- like having lunch -- or waling through a Garden?

 

If we LDS want to discount the trinity because it would be impossible for Jesus to pray to himself then the same must apply to Adam.  God spoke to Adam and Eve in the garden.  Two *separate* individuals.  I honestly see no way around it.  

[jkwilliams]

Did you ever see Bruce Wayne and Batman together -- like having lunch -- or waling through a Garden?

 

If we LDS want to discount the trinity because it would be impossible for Jesus to pray to himself then the same must apply to Adam.  God spoke to Adam and Eve in the garden.  Two *separate* individuals.  I honestly see no way around it.  

 

As I recall, some believe that "Adam" is a title, but that's not really what BY was teaching. 

[JLHPROF]

"God spoke to Adam"

Yes ADAM'S God spoke to Adam.

What's so complicated about that?

There is no end or beginning to the grand chain of Gods. Like in Revelation where we become Kings and Priests to God and HIS father.

[sethpayne]

"God spoke to Adam"

Yes ADAM'S God spoke to Adam.

What's so complicated about that?

There is no end or beginning to the grand chain of Gods. Like in Revelation where we become Kings and Priests to God and HIS father.

 

It's not complicated at all.  It simply has zero support in all scriptures, the temple, and from every other Church leader *besides* BY.

[sethpayne]

As I recall, some believe that "Adam" is a title, but that's not really what BY was teaching. 

 

I recall that whole "Adam as title" thing but that's makes matters worse.  It's an idea with ZERO scriptural support.  None.  Nada.  Zip.  No support in the temple.  No support from Church leaders.  How can this idea even possibly be entertained as Church doctrine when every source of Church doctrine negates the very notion?

[jkwilliams]

I recall that whole "Adam as title" thing but that's makes matters worse.  It's an idea with ZERO scriptural support.  None.  Nada.  Zip.  No support in the temple.  No support from Church leaders.  How can this idea even possibly be entertained as Church doctrine when every source of Church doctrine negates the very notion?

 

This is another example of people trying to justify and believe teachings the church has explicitly repudiated. It's very strange to me.

[mfbukowski]

Did you ever see Bruce Wayne and Batman together -- like having lunch -- or waling through a Garden?

 

If we LDS want to discount the trinity because it would be impossible for Jesus to pray to himself then the same must apply to Adam.  God spoke to Adam and Eve in the garden.  Two *separate* individuals.  I honestly see no way around it.  

So if you receive a revelation from the son of Adam, Seth, in your garden and Seth speaks to Seth, that is impossible?

 

Two people, same name/title.

 

Bruce Wayne speaks to the police commissioner and batman speaks to the police commissioner.  Two people, conversing, not three.

[mfbukowski]

This is another example of people trying to justify and believe teachings the church has explicitly repudiated. It's very strange to me.

So?

 

At one point everything is interpretation and now it is strange that things are ambiguous.  Which is it?

Edited October 26, 2015 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

I recall that whole "Adam as title" thing but that's makes matters worse.  It's an idea with ZERO scriptural support.  None.  Nada.  Zip.  No support in the temple.  No support from Church leaders.  How can this idea even possibly be entertained as Church doctrine when every source of Church doctrine negates the very notion?

Christ is the second Adam

 

Do I have to look that up?

[mfbukowski]

Joseph, King Follette discourse

 

God has a father.

 

Temple.   "For that is the way Father gained his knowledge"

 

How did he eat the fruit of the tree if he was not an "Adam"? in some "Garden"?

Edited October 26, 2015 by mfbukowski

[ERayR]

I recall that whole "Adam as title" thing but that's makes matters worse.  It's an idea with ZERO scriptural support.  None.  Nada.  Zip.  No support in the temple.  No support from Church leaders.  How can this idea even possibly be entertained as Church doctrine when every source of Church doctrine negates the very notion?

Interpretation , interpretation. JLHPROF pointed out an alternate interpretation to yours.

[sethpayne]

Christ is the second Adam

 

Do I have to look that up?

 

LOL.  No mfbukowsi.  I'm familiar with the imagery employed by Paul.  

[sethpayne]

Interpretation , interpretation. JLHPROF pointed out an alternate interpretation to yours.

 

Well, I certainly can't argue with that.  

[VideoGameJunkie]

If Adam really is our God does that mean we'll have to go through mortal life again like Adam and Eve in the garden and in mortality again to birth a world? Because I really don't want to go through mortality again once it's over. I'd rather just enjoy heaven. And I thought Adam was Michael the archangel from the temple video. And if Adam is God then who are Jehova who is the Lord in the Old Testament and Elohim who is the main God in the temple video? I understand that Adam and Eve are resurrected now and are exalted gods, but how could it be that they're our Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother?

[sethpayne]

Joseph, King Follette discourse

 

God has a father.

 

Temple.   "For that is the way Father gained his knowledge"

 

How did he eat the fruit of the tree if he was not an "Adam"? in some "Garden"?

 

Is the KFD representative of LDS doctrine?  It seems that the recent Church essays on the subject are moving away from this idea.  Even President Hinckley said "I don't know" when asked about some of these ideas.

 

I want to make sure I"m following you.   Let's just take everything you have said as a given.  The question we've been discussing is whether "Adam" is the same being as "Elohim."  What you have laid out supports the idea they are two separate people but the Elohim consumed fruit in a garden quite separate from Adam/Michael in the process of him becoming a God.  

[sethpayne]

So if you receive a revelation from the son of Adam, Seth, in your garden and Seth speaks to Seth, that is impossible?

 

Two people, same name/title.

 

Bruce Wayne speaks to the police commissioner and batman speaks to the police commissioner.  Two people, conversing, not three.

 

Ok.  So you *are* talking about two separate people.  Then we are in agreement.  I think this can make sense within the context of LDS doctrine.

[VideoGameJunkie]

It just seems to weird and wrong to think that Adam is our God. That God would sin and could only be saved from sin by Jesus.

[mfbukowski]

If Adam really is our God does that mean we'll have to go through mortal life again like Adam and Eve in the garden and in mortality again to birth a world? Because I really don't want to go through mortality again once it's over. I'd rather just enjoy heaven. And I thought Adam was Michael the archangel from the temple video. And if Adam is God then who are Jehova who is the Lord in the Old Testament and Elohim who is the main God in the temple video? I understand that Adam and Eve are resurrected now and are exalted gods, but how could it be that they're our Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother?

The persons are not.

 

Pretend Bruce Wayne moved on or died and now there is a new Batman who's real name is Fred, not Bruce.  He still has the same title but is not the same person.  So the titles "Adam" and "Eve" do not necessarily apply to the individual people, but are titles like "Batman" is a title.

Edited October 26, 2015 by mfbukowski

[jkwilliams]

LOL.  No mfbukowsi.  I'm familiar with the imagery employed by Paul.  

I don't see how the "Adam as title" concept works with what BY taught. He said consistently that God came here with one of his wives and entered into mortality by falling. This is what the 19th-century apostles called "multiple probations." It isn't that God has the title of Adam but that an already exalted being (God) came to earth and became a mortal, fallen man again.

That's the heresy that the church has repudiated.