Tacenda Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 It's true. And the simple fact is, while Joseph may have consummated more marriages than we realize, he probably had no further opportunities with these wives. It's a bit much to assume Joseph had multiple opportunities timed perfectly during each wife's ovulation period during the maximum of 3 years he was married to any of them.On average, 50% of couples take 3 months of repetitive trying during ovulation to conceive.It's pretty safe to say Joseph didn't get three months of trying at the right time with these wives he didn't live with.The no children argument just doesn't prove a thing against sexual relations.There are other pre-modern methods, why is this not clear? I dare not explain.
Nevo Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 What I find strange is that in a time where there was not the readily available birth control that there is today, Joseph could have 30-40 wives, yet not have any known children (that I've heard of anyway) by any of them except Emma. What does that say about his relationship with all of these wives? I don't find it that strange. Joseph Smith had little opportunity to father children with most of his plural wives (he was rarely, if ever, alone with them) but there is some evidence that he did with Fanny Alger, Olive Frost, and Sylvia Sessions Lyon. I would not be surprised if there were others too. 2
thesometimesaint Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Children of Joseph Smith From Wiki.Joseph Smith, Jr. publicly condemned polygamy,[1][2][3][4] but there is ample evidence that Smith both taught and practiced it, had a number of wives sealed to him, and may have had sexual relations with at least some of them.[5] Though there were allegations of paternity in some of these polygamous marriages, no children have ever been proven to be Smith's. There is ongoing genetic research to determine if any descendants of alleged children have Smith's genetic markers, and so far all tests have been negative.[6][7][8][9]
The Nehor Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 I've seen stake dances. Mormons have no rhythm.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32j8M5G1f8o
ERayR Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Brian, "sealed vs married" ==>> Under certain circumstances it is technically possible for a man to be sealed to a woman to whom he had never been married. (Note: in modern practice, both of them have to be deceased) Hope that helps to demonstrate the difference. Oh it much more than that. He can be and if the family is active probably is sealed to his father and mother and to his children both male and female. Sealing and marriage are two different things. When temple marriages are performed the couple are first married then sealed. Either can be and sometimes is done without the other. Marriage has to do with joining a man and woman, sealing has to do with joining families.
ERayR Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 I don't find it that strange. Joseph Smith had little opportunity to father children with most of his plural wives (he was rarely, if ever, alone with them) but there is some evidence that he did with Fanny Alger, Olive Frost, and Sylvia Sessions Lyon. I would not be surprised if there were others too. Neither would I but as of now whether he did or did not is pure conjecture. 1
pogi Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) I've seen stake dances. Mormons have no rhythm. Nehor, that clip reminded me of one of my favorite movies. We just need to find the right radio station. Before: (start at 1:30) After: Edited November 12, 2014 by pogi
Silhouette Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 I've seen stake dances. Mormons have no rhythm.*unladylike snort of laughter*
ERayR Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 What I find strange is that in a time where there was not the readily available birth control that there is today, Joseph could have 30-40 wives, yet not have any known children (that I've heard of anyway) by any of them except Emma. What does that say about his relationship with all of these wives? Whatever it says comes wholly from imagination and that speaks more about the one imagining than it does about Joseph Smith. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) Nothing makes me feel more secure that I made a solid point than when you reply with with nothing other than a disrespectful personal attack in violation of the board’s guidelines. Thanks. I went back and looked at the sniping mockery you claim is a "solid point." I don't think you should feel all that secure. As it turns out, Pahoran gave it pretty much the respect it deserves. Edited November 12, 2014 by Scott Lloyd 2
Nevo Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Neither would I but as of now whether he did or did not is pure conjecture. Whatever it says comes wholly from imagination and that speaks more about the one imagining than it does about Joseph Smith. "Wholly from the imagination"? "Pure conjecture"? Not really. There is evidence that Joseph Smith had children with the three women I listed. You may not find the evidence compelling but I didn't simply invent it.
ERayR Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 "Wholly from the imagination"? "Pure conjecture"? Not really. There is evidence that Joseph Smith had children with the three women I listed. You may not find the evidence compelling but I didn't simply invent it. Again DNA testing has not supported those claims yet statements that begin I would not be surprised or I believe indicating pure conjecture. What difference does it make if he did have children from one or more of his polygamous wives?
ERayR Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Nothing makes me feel more secure that I made a solid point than when you reply with with nothing other than a disrespectful personal attack in violation of the board’s guidelines. Thanks. I am remembering something about glass houses and rocks. 2
Pahoran Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Nothing makes me feel more secure that I made a solid point than when you reply with with nothing other than a disrespectful personal attack in violation of the board’s guidelines. Thanks. Your gleeful chortling about a nasty cheap shot was a "solid point," was it? Well, I suppose it's as solid a point as you are ever capable of making.Regards,Pahoran 2
Mystery Meat Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Your gleeful chortling about a nasty cheap shot was a "solid point," was it? Well, I suppose it's as solid a point as you are ever capable of making.Regards,Pahoran It is remarkable what some think is a solid point. A mean spirited joke is not a solid point and anyone who think it is reveals just how stupid they are. 2
Calm Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32j8M5G1f8oI could have sworn it was going to be "White and Nerdy".
Vance Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Brian, "sealed vs married" ==>> Under certain circumstances it is technically possible for a man to be sealed to a woman to whom he had never been married. (Note: in modern practice, both of them have to be deceased) Hope that helps to demonstrate the difference.Many years ago a distant cousin of mine, with his bride to be, was driving home from his future in-laws where they and announced their engagement, (they had announced it to his parents earlier in the day) when he was killed in an accident. Later, the bride to be was given the opportunity to be sealed to him. She declined. But, she could have been sealed to him even though she had never been married to him. There, indeed, is a difference.
JLHPROF Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 It is remarkable what some think is a solid point. A mean spirited joke is not a solid point and anyone who think it is reveals just how stupid they are. Your gleeful chortling about a nasty cheap shot was a "solid point," was it? Well, I suppose it's as solid a point as you are ever capable of making.Regards,Pahoran Oh come on guys. It was clever and made me laugh. So it was a little bit anti. Lighten up. Mormons have a long history of being able to laugh at ourselves. 1
cinepro Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Whatever it says comes wholly from imagination and that speaks more about the one imagining than it does about Joseph Smith. So, when Sylvia Lyons told her daughter Josephine that she (Josephine) was Joseph Smith's daughter, what was she imagining, and what does that say about her?
Pahoran Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Oh come on guys. It was clever and made me laugh. So it was a little bit anti. Lighten up. Mormons have a long history of being able to laugh at ourselves. So we do. But in my view, a nasty cheap shot isn't clever and it isn't funny. And it certainly isn't a "solid point." And that's not a matter of taste. Regards,Pahoran 3
USU78 Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 So, when Sylvia Lyons told her daughter Josephine that she (Josephine) was Joseph Smith's daughter, what was she imagining, and what does that say about her? Wishful thinking? Hero worshiping? Pointing out that Josephine would be in JSJr's post-resurrection family regardless who donated that other X chromosome? 1
ERayR Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 So, when Sylvia Lyons told her daughter Josephine that she (Josephine) was Joseph Smith's daughter, what was she imagining, and what does that say about her? I have no idea what she meant by that statement but there is certainly more than one explanation.
Scott Lloyd Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) Oh come on guys. It was clever and made me laugh. So it was a little bit anti. Lighten up. Mormons have a long history of being able to laugh at ourselves.Pahoran's right; it was a nasty cheap shot. And a ham-handed one at that. And not even approaching a "solid point." Edited November 12, 2014 by Scott Lloyd 2
SeekingUnderstanding Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 I have no idea what she meant by that statement but there is certainly more than one explanation.Wow.
ERayR Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Wow. Wow what? I have no idea what she meant as I do not do clairvoyance and there really is more than on possibility.
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