Scott Lloyd Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Wow.Why "wow"? Are you insisting there can be only one explanation? USU78 suggested three others.
Ringil Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 As a non-Mormon, I have to say that folks have known this for ages. Did anyone ever not know that Smith had many wives? 3
USU78 Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Why "wow"? Are you insisting there can be only one explanation? USU78 suggested three others. Let me get my shoes on and I'll think of 2 or 3 more.
KevinG Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 All of this speculation about sexual relations in Joseph's sealing's is more a reflection of our post cultural revolution sensibilities (or lack of them) than it is Joseph's morals and intentions. 3
JLHPROF Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 As a non-Mormon, I have to say that folks have known this for ages. Did anyone ever not know that Smith had many wives? Well, I made it all through primary without knowing...12 years old and ignorant of such a basic fact... But then I grew up and picked up my scriptures. D&C 132 isn't that hard a read. 3
ERayR Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 As a non-Mormon, I have to say that folks have known this for ages. Did anyone ever not know that Smith had many wives? If you listen to the critics of the Church it has been hidden by the Church until they (the critics) just recently discovered it and revealed it. 1
Popular Post KevinG Posted November 12, 2014 Popular Post Posted November 12, 2014 As a non-Mormon, I have to say that folks have known this for ages. Did anyone ever not know that Smith had many wives? Apparently just about every former Mormon who was shocked (shocked I tell you) that the sex lives of the Prophetic and famous, were never discussed in Primary and YM/YW, and therefore hidden from them, until the time a kindly missionary from the church of not-Mormons came and rescued them from their imposed blindness and lying family, friends, and ecclesiastical boogeymen. 6
Brian 2.0 Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Apparently just about every former Mormon who was shocked (shocked I tell you) that the sex lives of the Prophetic and famous, were never discussed in Primary and YM/YW, and therefore hidden from them, until the time a kindly missionary from the church of not-Mormons came and rescued them from their imposed blindness and lying family, friends, and ecclesiastical boogeymen. I'll never understand that shock that some have that the church didn't tell them the details or evidences showing how a lot of JS polygamy went down. But I fully understand the shock that some have when learning about the details and evidences showing how a lot of JS polygamy went down. 2
Tacenda Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 As a non-Mormon, I have to say that folks have known this for ages. Did anyone ever not know that Smith had many wives? We weren't supposed to read anti Mormon truth, only Mormon truth.
ERayR Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 We weren't supposed to read anti Mormon truth, only Mormon truth. Tsk Tsk Tacenda wrong answer. 3
KevinG Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 I'll never understand that shock that some have that the church didn't tell them the details or evidences showing how a lot of JS polygamy went down. But I fully understand the shock that some have when learning about the details and evidences showing how a lot of JS polygamy went down. I'm a convert with a past. So sue me. So I can't be blamed for despising and mistrusting anti-mormons for spreading lies like, Emma pushed someone down the stairs over polygamy, etc? 1
Tacenda Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) Well, I made it all through primary without knowing...12 years old and ignorant of such a basic fact... But then I grew up and picked up my scriptures. D&C 132 isn't that hard a read.They never knew Joseph had a chance to live it. They knew he was commanded to but thought he died before he had a chance, in the "Work and Glory" series, Gerald Lund mentions that Joseph was commanded to live it but it ends there, why would Bro. Lund leave those details out? Most only learn of Brigham Young's polygamy mainly and then soon that has become hidden. I went to the Brigham Young home while a young person and remember there was a family picture hanging up with all his wives and children. Then when visiting the Lion House in the last few years, there's no portrait or talk of his wives. And those on here that make excuses for that, they don't hold up to the scrutiny, IMO. ETA: Per Scott's correction, it was in the Beehive House not Lion House that I recently took the tour. Edited November 13, 2014 by Tacenda 1
Brian 2.0 Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 They never knew Joseph had a chance to live it. They knew he was commanded to but thought he died before he had a chance, in the "Work and Glory" series, Gerald Lund mentions that Joseph was commanded to live it but it ends there, why would Bro. Lund leave those details out? Most only learn of Brigham Young's polygamy mainly and then soon that has become hidden. I went to the Brigham Young home while a young person and remember there was a family picture hanging up with all his wives and children. Then when visiting the Lion House in the last few years, there's no portrait or talk of his wives. And those on here that make excuses for that, they don't hold up to the scrutiny, IMO. Speaking of "The Work and the Glory"... I tried to go to the Steed Family Farm when on a church historical trip. Couldn't find it anywhere. The church hides a lot. 1
ERayR Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 They never knew Joseph had a chance to live it. They knew he was commanded to but thought he died before he had a chance, in the "Work and Glory" series, Gerald Lund mentions that Joseph was commanded to live it but it ends there, why would Bro. Lund leave those details out? Most only learn of Brigham Young's polygamy mainly and then soon that has become hidden. I went to the Brigham Young home while a young person and remember there was a family picture hanging up with all his wives and children. Then when visiting the Lion House in the last few years, there's no portrait or talk of his wives. And those on here that make excuses for that, they don't hold up to the scrutiny, IMO. We just do not see the evidence for a planned, premeditated, nefarious plot to deceive. 1
JLHPROF Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) They never knew Joseph had a chance to live it. They knew he was commanded to but thought he died before he had a chance, in the "Work and Glory" series, Gerald Lund mentions that Joseph was commanded to live it but it ends there, why would Bro. Lund leave those details out? Most only learn of Brigham Young's polygamy mainly and then soon that has become hidden. I went to the Brigham Young home while a young person and remember there was a family picture hanging up with all his wives and children. Then when visiting the Lion House in the last few years, there's no portrait or talk of his wives. And those on here that make excuses for that, they don't hold up to the scrutiny, IMO. No, actually the Work and the Glory volume 6 does state that Joseph entered into polygamy. It just doesn't detail any wives names. But it absolutely makes it clear that Joseph lived it and Emma had issues with it. As far as the Lion House, yes, there is still some deception there. I went on a tour of the Beehive House and Lion House and someone asked the missionaries what all the rooms were for. Apparently they were all for "guests and visitors". They were also asked why Brigham Young had his own bedroom separate from his official "wife's" bedroom. Crickets... Of course, this was right before the lovely Korean sister missionary told the group that we could all be bondaged together with our families... Edited November 12, 2014 by JLHPROF
Ringil Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Apparently just about every former Mormon who was shocked (shocked I tell you) that the sex lives of the Prophetic and famous, were never discussed in Primary and YM/YW, and therefore hidden from them, until the time a kindly missionary from the church of not-Mormons came and rescued them from their imposed blindness and lying family, friends, and ecclesiastical boogeymen. Well, in CCD we certainly didn't learn about the Borgia Popes so I can see how teaching the young can involve some "glossing over" history. Still, isn't the question of polygamy really a pretty big feature in Mormon History and in current evangelization? I would think you guys would prepare the kids to defend their faith- but if you folks live in Utah maybe it's like a Catholic living in Rome- adherents kind of forget that not everyone has the same faith.
LDS85 Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 In Defense of Joseph SmithArticle: http://www.ryancjenkins.com/joseph-smith-was-an-honest-and-virtuous-man/
JLHPROF Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 In Defense of Joseph SmithArticle: http://www.ryancjenkins.com/joseph-smith-was-an-honest-and-virtuous-man/ Always up for defending Joseph Smith.
Nevo Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 In Defense of Joseph SmithArticle: http://www.ryancjenkins.com/joseph-smith-was-an-honest-and-virtuous-man/ Has Joseph Smith been attacked on this thread—or in the article linked in the opening post? Not that I've noticed. Even so, defenses of Joseph Smith are always welcome here. Thanks for the link.
Tacenda Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) C/P a post from another forum that was linked to the forum I was reading, it's a reaction from a SP and others when the news of the essays hit the papers. "I am visiting my wife's TBM family in Honduras this week. Yesterday we were at Copan Ruins when my wife received a phone call from her Dad who is a SP. I watched as my wife's eyes got big and then she handed the phone to me. My father in law then began shouting over the phone about 40 wives. heheSo we finished our tour of the beautiful Mayan ruins and went to my in-laws house. The scene at his house was a bit comical. He was there with the stake presidency and all the bishops of his stake. They were talking about who can call the newspaper and get rid of these offensive lies. They even mentioned calling the owners of the paper. They asked me if the news was in the USA and told them yes all over the world.They decided to have prayer and then I was asked to leave, apostate and all. I went to where we were staying with our 3 kids and hung out with them. 20 minutes later my wife came and said "They want to talk to you."My wife had told them that the church had released essays about this and that the news articles were quoting the essays, but she could not find the essays on lds.org. She told them I could and they asked her to get me. I found them, in spanish, and the fun began.They all read it together and I watched as their jaws dropped to the floor. The shock on their faces was priceless. My father in law came to me and politely asked me if I could put my kids to sleep because they needed to have a private conversation.I do not know what they decided but there was yelling.The best part of the night was when my father in law asked if he could speak with me alone.Brief back story- I met my wife at BYU and we got married in the temple, etc. My wife is a RM, etc. When I started to find out the truth 6 years ago it caused huge problems in my family and especially in my wife's family. Anyways.My father in law asked me how this could be and why would the church write these essays? I told him I do not know but I thought it was a good thing. He told he was going to read all the essays tonight and talk with me in the morning. He then gave me a hug and whispered " I might owe you a huge apology sometime soon."That was last night, this morning we woke up to mother in law crying, father in law shell shocked.I will keep you posted." Me: looks like a ton of people had no idea about JS's wives. Especially in the foreign areas. Edited November 13, 2014 by Tacenda
Calm Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) "it's a reaction from a SP.... "Because every anonymous poster on RFM must be exactly who he claims to be.I wouldn't accept an anonymous poster on a lds site as a SP or relative of one just because he said he was. Edited November 13, 2014 by calmoriah 4
Tacenda Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 "it's a reaction from a SP.... "Because every anonymous poster on RFM must be exactly who he claims to be.I wouldn't accept an anonymous poster on a lds site as a SP just because he said he was.True, but it does bring up the fact that they don't have materials with the information about JS's polygamy that have been translated or do they? Maybe a brief mention in the Ensign, but where else? Do not post non-referenced posts from other sites.
Popular Post CA Steve Posted November 13, 2014 Popular Post Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) True, but it does bring up the fact that they don't have materials with the information about JS's polygamy that have been translated or do they? Maybe a brief mention in the Ensign, but where else? It is their own fault they don't speak English, I mean there are books everywhere that one can read to learn English. Edited November 13, 2014 by CA Steve 5
Brian 2.0 Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 It is their own fault they don't speak English, I mean there are book everywhere that one can read to learn English. Love this.
Scott Lloyd Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Speaking of "The Work and the Glory"... I tried to go to the Steed Family Farm when on a church historical trip. Couldn't find it anywhere. The church hides a lot. I heard Lund say that he would often draw the names of his characters from pioneer diaries and journals. Once in a while he would get an inquiry from a reader who read an ancestor's name in one of his novels and would feel certain Lund had done research into the reader's ancestry. Lund would then have to enlighten the reader to the fact that he had only borrowed the name, not the character. What a scoundrel! To make things up in a work of fiction!
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